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Anyone in Colorado know these guys?

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May 2, 2013
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https://www.jhnewsandguide.com/this_just_in/article_6a7ecaa5-1780-50e3-aaea-92d241539f72.html


5c75ef9c94c37.image.jpg





I just want to know how much of a fine each had to pay for being past the wilderness boundary. Article says "Citations for snowmobiling in a wilderness area can carry a fine of up to $5,000 and up to six months in jail or both."


I just want to know the exact number so when I catch tourists here in Colorado crossing the wilderness boundary at Rabbit Ears and Buff Pass I can give them an exact number. LOL
 

Griff

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Isn't that kind of like getting locked in the vault when robbing the bank...
 

WileyCoyote

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I'll catch hell for this, but oh well. They are not illegal, they are just undocumented. We should tear down these barriers/ walls to snowmobiling.
 

Big10inch

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I just want to know how much of a fine each had to pay for being past the wilderness boundary. Article says "Citations for snowmobiling in a wilderness area can carry a fine of up to $5,000 and up to six months in jail or both."


I just want to know the exact number so when I catch tourists here in Colorado crossing the wilderness boundary at Rabbit Ears and Buff Pass I can give them an exact number. LOL

So you hang out along the boundary and hassle fellow sledders? Are you a forest cop?

I would be curious to know the outcome as well, for personal reasons you know...
 

Dogmeat

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Call me crazy, but I could absolutely care less if people snowmobile in wilderness areas :p

What pisses me off about it is that the communists in Jackson make a big deal out of it.

I bet not even a single chipmunk was harmed during this whole ordeal ....
 
Call me crazy, but I could absolutely care less if people snowmobile in wilderness areas :p

What pisses me off about it is that the communists in Jackson make a big deal out of it.

I bet not even a single chipmunk was harmed during this whole ordeal ....
This is the exact attitude that will get areas closed. Our riding areas are limited, but start riding in closed areas they will shut down adjacent access.
 

gonehuntnpowder

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I couldn't agree more that we are causing NO harm to wilderness areas on snowmobiles. That being said, crap like this is ammunition for the environmentalists to use against us. We lose riding land every year because of stupid $hit we bring upon ourselves. Back country snowmobiling is going to come to an end if we don't work harder to protect it, and the first steps are to stay out of closed areas and carry out your trash!!!!

Bash me all you want.
 

Big10inch

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This is the exact attitude that will get areas closed. Our riding areas are limited, but start riding in closed areas they will shut down adjacent access.

So ride those areas too... Use it or lose it and you are well on your way to letting them make up excuses to take more. If you believe what you type you are part of the problem, not the solution. Sorry
 

Big10inch

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I couldn't agree more that we are causing NO harm to wilderness areas on snowmobiles. That being said, crap like this is ammunition for the environmentalists to use against us. We lose riding land every year because of stupid $hit we bring upon ourselves. Back country snowmobiling is going to come to an end if we don't work harder to protect it, and the first steps are to stay out of closed areas and carry out your trash!!!!

Bash me all you want.

No, actually we do not lose riding areas every year because of **** like this. That simply is not true. They want you to think you are bringing this on yourself so that you will voluntarily submit to their desires, thereby limiting yourself without them having to justify stealing your rights to recreate on public land.

Submitting as you have IS the problem. You have played right into their hands. Protest and forcing them to justify these land thefts and enforce them against other citizens with rights, is what needs to happen. Further capitulation with them and their rules is what is really losing us our land rights.

I always pack out my trash but again, suggesting we will lose rights over that is incorrect. Hikers are BY FAR the worst user group for leaving trash on the trails, they never lose access over it...
 
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Dogmeat

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This is the exact attitude that will get areas closed. Our riding areas are limited, but start riding in closed areas they will shut down adjacent access.

Well ... I guess for the last 10+ years I had the "right" attitude, and we're still losing hundreds of thousands of acres here and there left and right, so yeah I guess my attitude has changed. If you're willing to risk the fines, ride it and have fun. Just do so with the quietest exhaust you can find so as to not attract too much attention :)
 

gonehuntnpowder

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No, actually we do not lose riding areas every year because of **** like this. That simply is not true. They want you to think you are bringing this on yourself so that you will voluntarily submit to their desires, thereby limiting yourself without them having to justify stealing your rights to recreate on public land.

Submitting as you have IS the problem. You have played right into their hands. Protest and forcing them to justify these land thefts and enforce them against other citizens with rights, is what needs to happen. Further capitulation with them and their rules is what is really losing us our land rights.

I always pack out my trash but again, suggesting we will lose rights over that is incorrect. Hikers are BY FAR the worst user group for leaving trash on the trails, they never lose access over it...

So you think by breaking the law regarding access into parks/wilderness this is going to force the federal government to change laws that are in place to govern property that according to the constitution they have no control over?
 

Big10inch

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So you think by breaking the law regarding access into parks/wilderness this is going to force the federal government to change laws that are in place to govern property that according to the constitution they have no control over?

YES!

Ever hear of prohibition?

Would you prefer the failed road we have been going down for the last 3 decades?

I absolutely believe that becoming a thorn in their side is EXACTLY what needs to happen. How do you think the greenies had it closed in the first place?
 

Big10inch

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Does anyone know what the outcome of this was yet? Where they knowingly in wilderness or do they claim it was a mistake and they didn't know? Fines? Jail time? Confiscation of trucks/sleds?
 

gonehuntnpowder

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YES!

Ever hear of prohibition?

Would you prefer the failed road we have been going down for the last 3 decades?

I absolutely believe that becoming a thorn in their side is EXACTLY what needs to happen. How do you think the greenies had it closed in the first place?

Prohibition was lifted for 1 reason money. Alcohol generated 5.5 billion last year in tax revenue. When it's legal the government makes money when it's illegal criminals make it.
For those that choose to ride out of bounds,good for you. I personally will choose not too if for no other reason I can't afford the fine and don't want my name in the paper.
Little history lesson. In the late 90's the medicine bow national forest brought on a new boss. She proposed no backcountry snowmobiling. Trails only. It went through the comment peroid. We signed letters and went to meetings, recruited a friend of mine from the community to speak for us. the Sierra club set up shop in the student union at UW and gave away little trinkets for signatures on a letter. Public opinion was overwhelming to eliminate backcountry snowmobiling. What saved it was the election of George W Bush as president. One of his first acts was to order no additional restrictions to public land. if Gore would have been elected that would have set a precedent that likely would changed the way the West looked at snowmobiling. What you do and what I do, whether we choose to obey or disobey is really irrelevant. We are one election away from losing the right to ride backcountry legally. From wherever stand now you can see the end. I hope my grandkids at least get the opportunity. My only point is don't give them any more ammo.
 

Big10inch

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It really isn't giving them any more ammo. They have a box full of excuses as you rightly note and capitulating with them on ANY level is a waste of time as I think you know from the tone of that post.

Just do not get suckered into the notion that there is anything we can do. We are vastly outnumbered, massively out funded and mostly too chicken to stand up for our rights because of the consequences. The unintended consequence being, further or complete loss of legal riding opportunities.

Be smart, ride safe, enjoy life.

Not sure the guys in the picture did any of those three things...
 

gonehuntnpowder

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Our behavior, regardless of what it is, is a small to non factor in the land use fight. Our opposition holds most of the cards. It's just a matter of time.

On these things we can agree.
 

wrtmani

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YES!

Ever hear of prohibition?

Would you prefer the failed road we have been going down for the last 3 decades?

I absolutely believe that becoming a thorn in their side is EXACTLY what needs to happen. How do you think the greenies had it closed in the first place?

Yes the failed policies will continue to fail unless the people stand up and work to get the policies changed and as well as the means of letting such policies get instituted in the first place...

The greenies got it closed not by being a thorn in our side, they got it by using money and lots of it to influence the legislators and courts for their purposes. They did it by influencing the larger popupation of the urban Eastern U.S. who have no clue about our lands here in the West, both public and private. These people were duped into thinking they needed to let the greenies be the stewards of lands disconnected a half a continent away from them.

It's going to take sportsmen, snowmobilers, off-roaders, loggers, farmers, every group whose livelyhood is connected to our Western lands to band together with numbers and financial backing to change the status quo in Washington and at the state level. I read a recent article in Field and Stream about the billionare founder of REI, the outdoor clothing, greenie-supporting mega-company, and the billionare founder of another eastern-U.S. outdoor products company spearheading efforts using their wealth to fight the perceived sales of our public lands to private companies. These are just two of the financial elitists that are infuencing the future of our Western lands.

It's not just our wild lands it's our whole country at stake. The elitists have the power, and want to control the population by any means needed both in political ideology and financial control of our government. Being a thorn is one thing, but finding ways to be a sword to cut the dragon to pieces, or being David and finding the one rock to slay the Goliath currently gripping tight the future of our country, is much more important.
 
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Big10inch

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Yes the failed policies will continue to fail unless the people stand up and work to get the policies changed and as well as the means of letting such policies get instituted in the first place...

Since most of us that want these things changed have to work at our paying jobs, the notion that us non elitist can force a change is slim to none...

The greenies got it closed not by being a thorn in our side, they got it by using money and lots of it to influence the legislators and courts for their purposes. They did it by influencing the larger popupation of the urban Eastern U.S. who have no clue about our lands here in the West, both public and private. These people were duped into thinking they needed to let the greenies be the stewards of lands disconnected a half a continent away from them.

Tell me a lawsuit isn't a thorn in your side... Yes, they used our tax money to sue us on behalf of owls and snails. Yes they bastardized the term "wilderness" to brainwash millions into supporting them.

It's going to take sportsmen, snowmobilers, off-roaders, loggers, farmers, every group whose livelyhood is connected to our Western lands to band together with numbers and financial backing to change the status quo in Washington and at the state level. I read a recent article in Field and Stream about the billionare founder of REI, the outdoor clothing, greenie-supporting mega-company, and the billionare founder of another eastern-U.S. outdoor products company spearheading efforts using their wealth to fight the perceived sales of our public lands to private companies. These are just two of the financial elitists that are infuencing the future of our Western lands.

So you think by pooling our resources we can beat the billionaires and elitists? Never has worked yet, most likely wont change...

It's not just our wild lands it's our whole country at stake. The elitists have the power, and want to control the population by any means needed both in political ideology and financial control of our government. Being a thorn is one thing, but finding ways to be a sword to cut the dragon to pieces, or being David and finding the one rock to slay the Goliath currently gripping tight the future of our country, is much more important.

Agreed, I am ready for civil war.
 

polaris dude

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No, actually we do not lose riding areas every year because of **** like this. That simply is not true. They want you to think you are bringing this on yourself so that you will voluntarily submit to their desires, thereby limiting yourself without them having to justify stealing your rights to recreate on public land.

Submitting as you have IS the problem. You have played right into their hands. Protest and forcing them to justify these land thefts and enforce them against other citizens with rights, is what needs to happen. Further capitulation with them and their rules is what is really losing us our land rights.

I always pack out my trash but again, suggesting we will lose rights over that is incorrect. Hikers are BY FAR the worst user group for leaving trash on the trails, they never lose access over it...

agree. hike mt. elbert and just look at the damage done.

I'd love to see a study on the damage done to wilderness areas when the snow base is 60+ inches.
 
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