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After 4 years on a Pro

mtnpull

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So since 2011 I have been happily tearing up the hillsides on a Pro RMK. Today was my first ride on an XM and the following are my first impressions.

1st off. I picked up a 2015 T3 163 from a gentleman who ended up injured and I have been very anxious to ride it. Unfortunately, I got it home and began to add an hps can, skid plate, etc. I went to start it up to back it out so I could repair some of my rental equipment and I couldn't get it to start. Finally it starts and won't stay running. Needless to say it's at the dealer trying to find out what's wrong. I gotta say, it's a nice welcome back to doo. :face-icon-small-dis

Luckily for me I have a couple SP 154's in my fleet this year, so rather than jumping onto my Pro I take out one of my 15 sp's. My Pro from the last couple years has been a 2013 163 with c&a bx skis, a hps can, a wrp low rise seat and a fox shock kit for the skid. A pretty fun and well handling sled. My confidence on this sled was through the roof.

The conditions today was incredible, especially for December riding. Over the top white fluff....all day. Made me really wish I was on my T3. Here is a pic of good friend Stephen Darcy testing out an XM with me. This should give you an idea of the snow conditions.

darcypowder_zpsb06c6506.jpg


Yes, there is a rider in there, you can just see the top of his helmet near the base of the big pine.

Anyhow, on our way up through more gentle terrain as we worked our way to the steeper, wooded and technical terrain I got my first taste of carving on and XM. My initial impression is that the sled is incredibly easy to carve and responds to very subtle foot pressure. I loved it. Downhill turns are way easier on an XM than a Pro. The etec is a hands down superior motor. Great feel, good throttle response and noticeably more power. Overall the sled feels like a better built snowmobile. Fit and finish is much better and it just feels solid. Overall in the gentler terrain, a much funner ride than the polaris. I feel like the xm is a much better sled for a beginner to intermediate to jump on and really improve their riding skills quickly.

Now as we moved to steeper and more technical terrain. This is where I had a few more challenges. Now, take any critique with a grain of salt as I am, recognizing that these are simply first impressions, without much seat time and I do expect some of this to change as I ride more, adjust riding style and tweak my sled (when I get it back from the dealer). So as I started to get into more technical terrain (terrain I have ridden dozens of times on my Pro) I got stuck in a few areas that had me shaking my head and cussing a bit. One on a sidehill that I know I would have nailed on my pro and another on a slight incline (seriously almost flat) where I'd stopped to catch my breath and when I started again, buried it. I couldn't believe it. It does seem that with the approach angle of the track that the xm doesn't get up onto the snow quite as easily as the pro and I seemed to trench more on initial throttle input. I plan on tightening my limiter strap on my t3 and see how that helps as well as possibly putting on Tom's Powder Wedge. We'll see. After this I kinda had some hesitation and rode with a little more caution and a little frustration. I know a big part of this is lack of seat time, so overall I am not too concerned but did feel like it wasn't quite performing like my Pro did in this type of terrain.

Then we moved into a section of trees that had tight lines and downed logs everywhere. It was the kind of tree riding that you had to ride aggressive, on the throttle and make quick decisions or you'd end up stuck in a nasty spot. This was probably one of the best moves for me. It required me to put aside my caution and really get aggressive and we nailed it. We were dicing through the trees, sliding the tracks across downed logs and ripping lines that if you didn't make you'd either be wrapped around a tree or have a ski stuck under a downed log that you'd notice while you sailed gracefully over the bars. After we finished that section a couple solid fist bumps were in order. Yes, it was that good.

After this section my confidence went back up a bit and I started to feel that if I rode this sled aggressive I could take just about anything.

We next headed into a pretty steep ravine with some stumps and downed logs. It required you to sidehill through it while changing elevation to avoid certain hazards mentioned above. I was following Darcy up this ravine so not only did I have to worry about stumps and downed logs, I had his trench to deal with. Most the ravine I attacked and felt super strong, nailing every line I picked. That is until my track spun out on a hidden stump turning me straight up hill. At this point my goggles where freezing up, I couldn't see, I was exhausted from digging out a few extra stucks, but over all felt pretty good about my first experience on and XM.

As I was working my way through some of the more technical terrain and having to do some random hop overs, I did find I was hanging up on the seat a bit. I had the low rise on my pro and I am hoping that Marc at WRP has a low rise in the works for the xm. I also wasn't too impressed with the heated goggle compartment. My goggles would heat but it just seemed they would stay soaked and didn't dry out. Maybe the box holds in the moisture. Not sure on that one.

Overall, I am pretty impressed. I think I could have gotten stuck less on my pro and had a bit more confidence, but I feel strongly that with seat time, some tweaking and of course my own T3 163 under my legs that I can have the confidence, plus some on my new sled.

As a side note here are a few of the mods I will be doing to the T3 once I get it back. TKI belt drive, either a Toms E Motion Skid or a Timbersled skid (haven't completely decided yet), HPS can and Tom's Powder wedge.

I plan on returning to this thread to occasionally update my thoughts on the transition. Stay tuned.
 

winter brew

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Double check with Tom, but I found his wedges didn't have the right cut for the smaller drivers on the T3. They were designed to fill the gap on 8t drivers and when I put them on my 7t there was just way too much vibration and drag. Maybe tom has a suggestion or cure.
There is a ecm update to address a cold start plug foul issue in the 15's....sounds like your issue. Was fouling plugs if started a few times in the shop without getting hot.
Enjoy the new sled!
 

mtnpull

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Double check with Tom, but I found his wedges didn't have the right cut for the smaller drivers on the T3. They were designed to fill the gap on 8t drivers and when I put them on my 7t there was just way too much vibration and drag. Maybe tom has a suggestion or cure.
There is a ecm update to address a cold start plug foul issue in the 15's....sounds like your issue. Was fouling plugs if started a few times in the shop without getting hot.
Enjoy the new sled!

Spoke to Tom today and you are correct. The powder wedge is not needed on the T3. The update has been performed on all of my 15 etecs. Unfortunately that is not the problem. I wish it was that simple cause I'd already be getting good seat time in.

Thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated!
 

Devilmanak

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Reserve overall judgment until you ride your T3. Big improvement over the standard SP Summit.
Kinda like XP to XM, there are subtle differences that add up to a lot in the end.
 
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snengineer

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When you started the T3 was it not revving up with throttle input? was it flashing a check engine light?

Switching Mtn platforms is not easy, have fun with that T3. Once the snow sets up your impressions might change again, be patient I think you will be impressed. After riding an SP for a few years I am really shocked by this T3 setup, pleasantly shocked....time will tell.
 

mtnpull

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When you started the T3 was it not revving up with throttle input? was it flashing a check engine light?

Switching Mtn platforms is not easy, have fun with that T3. Once the snow sets up your impressions might change again, be patient I think you will be impressed. After riding an SP for a few years I am really shocked by this T3 setup, pleasantly shocked....time will tell.

No check engine light. It ended up being a bad coil. Now I am just waiting on some free time to get up and test her out.
 

mtnpull

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Today I finally got out on my T3. The wait was very well worth it. I responded to the T3 thread in the Polaris section and below is my copy and paste from it.

Just before Christmas I picked up a T3 163. I have been on a Pro for the last 4 years and just decided rather than dumping money into a Pro that wouldn't be worth anything next year(putting on a 3" track), that I'd change it up and try out a T3. So with the nature of my business I have been slammed through the 1st of the year, so I ordered up some parts and built it up the way I wanted it. Yesterday we got some new and overdue snow and so today I took her out on the maiden voyage. Honestly I couldn't be more impressed. Unfortunately the snow today wasn't the bottomless pow I was hoping to see how she shined. Instead it was 12-16" of new on top of some older set up snow. I went to an area that I have ridden dozens of times on my Pro's in all conditions. This sled flat out rips. I had no problems holding sidehills, changing elevations on sidehills and even hit a south facing side hill that was super inconsistent under the soft snow with ruts and hard snow that will really throw you around and I breezed right across it. Impressive. The ride was entirely tree riding. Picking lines and very dicey. The T3 is very nimble and I pretty much just straddled the seat and shifted my weight to move in and out of the trees. Making downhill turns on this thing was night and day easier than on my Pro. Seriously, such a fun machine! I felt just as comfortable on my first ride on it as I did on my Pro after 4 years. Needless to say, Polaris has their work cut out for them in topping this one.

My only complaint (which isn't really a complaint) at this point is the ski lift I was getting. While climbing through the trees I was constantly wheeling. I am not sure if I need to just tighten my limiter strap, or if when that track got down to the more set up snow it really just hooked up and created lift. Something that we'll get more dialed in on a few more rides.
 
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snengineer

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If your keeping it stock then yes tighten up the tension on the rear springs, pull the limiter strap in one hole.....but since your a toms dealer just put the emotion kit on and dont mess around. I'm very impressed with the emotion setup on my T3.
 

sledhead_24_7

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Pulling the limiter up ONE hole will fix your issue, any more and the T-Motion seems to be negated.

Glad to hear you are liking your new ride!
 

mtnpull

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If your keeping it stock then yes tighten up the tension on the rear springs, pull the limiter strap in one hole.....but since your a toms dealer just put the emotion kit on and dont mess around. I'm very impressed with the emotion setup on my T3.

Pulling the limiter up ONE hole will fix your issue, any more and the T-Motion seems to be negated.

Glad to hear you are liking your new ride!

I actually have already installed Tom's E motion even prior to riding it. So my review was actually with tom skid installed. Skid felt and handled great. But when that track hooked up with the set up snow underneath it took off.
 
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snengineer

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slightly increase the evol chamber pressure on rear track shock, slightly decrease main chamber pressure on front track shock. Level limiter strap alone with toms kit, this setup doesn't like to be restricted as stated above. traction is nice isn't it:face-icon-small-win
 

GoBigParts

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You make some good points and nice review. There is something with the Ski-doo summit skid that makes that sled lift the front end and trench more. I think this is where polaris has it figured out is the skid attack angle and sled balance. They just seem to get up on the snow better and don't lift the front as much no matter what you do. I even drilled out the lower front arm mounting hole on my Pro and dropped the front arm down to the lower hole and mounted it. Front track shock spring tight and still don't get the front pointing to the moon like the doos. All my XM buddies are like " look at all this power this ski-doo has" as they ride wheelies across all the meadows having no idea it is the difference in the skid and balance. Too funny.
 

mtnpull

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I got another ride in today. I am usually a snow snob and if there isn't new snow I don't ride. However, I had and old friend that wanted me to take him and some of his friends out so we headed out in near spring like conditions. For the most part hero snow, but I went to some of my usual tree stashes and found some softer, untouched tree lines to pull. Prior to leaving I made some adjustments to my shock pressure on all four shocks and for the most part, eliminated the ski lift. Boy, am I loving my T3. Tom's skid is worth every penny. From the ride quality to the adjustability to the weight savings. I absolutely love it. I can't wait for some good dumps to really test it out in the steep and deep.
 
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boondocker155

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hey mtnpull thanks for the review. thinking about jumping ship as well. I've also been on a pro since 11. this is making me feel a bit more at ease
 
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