I was up sledding today and the 4 X 4's have been all the way from Tiger Canyon through to Tollgate. They made a mess of the trails. These guys need to be stopped.
4x4 at tollgate
- Thread starter polaris159
- Start date
O
With such low snow conditions, it's like open season for the 4x4 crews. Enforcement needs to be stepped up. Perhaps the local club presidents could call the local sheriff's office and request assistance.
Pretty sure your sled has seen a lot more dirt then mine!! you get the apples from the orchard out of your suspension yet?? Now, stop wasting my money and get back to work! 
By the way, I called Mark and told him his sled is back together but it won't start, Must be a Ski Doo thing
By the way, I called Mark and told him his sled is back together but it won't start, Must be a Ski Doo thing
Isnt this how land-lockups get started? Or at least another way? If its not the enviros its the user groups trying to get the other locked out? Im a wheeler myself... and while yeah, it ruts up the trail, why pitch all the "hate" when were talking road rideing during the worst winter ever. The rideing SUCKS no matter what. Cant a guy let that group enjoy what last part of their season they can and find a trail the rigs cant/arent going up? I know im not local... but its an issue/arguement im used to hearing. On BOTH SIDES. Im just one of the few who enjoy BOTH sides! Our road here in Lamoille has a transition period when the last of the rigs are playing in the snow while the first of the sledders are trying to ride the road. And the sledders are complaining... why are the skiiers complaining about sleds any different? If we act well toward the other motorsport groups, it would only be beneficial in the end. Instead of turning them in, why not stop and chat with 'em, shake some hands, have a beer if your into that, and mention the issue. Maybe they'd be willing to wheel up a less popular sled area the next time? Maybe the sledders can ride a less accesible area in the short term until the snow piles up to deep to automatically solve the problem? Then maybe those guys wont be a voice against sledders for the simple reason of what the sledders say towards them wheelin'. Just one mans opinion...
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Powdercrew, while I agree that we should not be fighting against each other we should also respect each others seasons!! While I do not wheel I have a lot of friends that do and if they were allowed to drive the roads whenever there would never be a time they could not navigate the GROOMED trails!! A lot of them could even drive most ungroomed areas. It should not matter if its a bad snow year so far as sledders have been waiting for it and should be able to ride the trails without the ruts from wheelers trashing what limited grooming has been done so far
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chater
New member
be nice i think i still got a picture of your son in my jeep and i believe it was after march 31st and i dont think you were susposed to be snomobiling then. I sled also, but this snow is crap so until we get more i will bring u some warm milk and try to settle you down. far as i no you cant make ruts in the ice anyway.
Guess this was my opinion more than the rest of it: "Instead of turning them in, why not stop and chat with 'em, shake some hands, have a beer if your into that, and mention the issue. Maybe they'd be willing to wheel up a less popular sled area the next time? Maybe the sledders can ride a less accesible area in the short term until the snow piles up to deep to automatically solve the problem?"
Just seems to me its really a short-term problem? Unless they can wheel all winter long? Most wheelers dont use the groomed trails once it gets to that point. They dont here. (well, sometimes they do):
This was actually a 50 or 60 something year old woman, By HERSELF! Drove more than 2 miles UP THE UNGROOMED TRAIL OVER MOGULS AND EVERYTHING! And there was a toyota pickup 50yds above her. Then the 4x4 towtruck had to rut its way up to rescue them both. I coulda complained/ranted/chewed 'em out... I left it alone and went on about my business. It happens at least 5 times EVERY season. Heck, I'VE even been buried in the middle of the trail back in my younger days. We wont stop the wheelers by reporting them, all that does is bring an awarness to a use conflict. In which forest managers see the EASY way out is to just LOCK UP THE TRAILS ALL TOGETHER. Seriously... think a skiier would take notice if us as sledders got the rigs locked out by complaining... thats how THEY work!
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I just think CONFLICT helps breed CLOSURE. Take it with a "tongue in cheek" and pray WINTER SHOWS UP and solves the problem without law enforcement and/or USFS doing it.
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suitcase
Well-known member
Why can't the 4X4 use other roads that are not groomed?
The thing is up there at tollgate you will get a ticket if you are riding a snowmobile after a certian date in the spring, or for that fact before a certain date in the fall.
The state pays to have these trails groomed for snowmobiles why should your dollars go to grooming when it is being trashed by people that have no respect for the snowmobiler! There are miles and miles of ungroomed roads that the 4X4's can run on while the snow is so slim. But they don't use those roads because there not Groomed, and it takes more work to use these roads. Our groomed trails are like hwys to them.
I am all for everyone shareing, but when you have the 4x4 guys tearing up hill sides that the public can see, that the forest rangers can see, and the enviro's can see, and it is being used against us to close things up. Then something needs to be done.
We can't ride on the trails certain times of the yr. why should they.
So as stated before get a plate # and turn them into both the forest service for a federal ticket. Then turn them into the county sherif for a county ticket. Then maybe the word will get out.
Just because this is a low snow yr so far does not give them the right to tear up the groomed trails. It is unsafe to have them out there on our trails.
We should not have to have a war over this, due to it does create issues for closing area. If the 4X4 guys had some respect for the sleders they would not be on the trails. This is no different than the snowmobilers being in the wildernes. We can't be there so we don't go there. This time of yr. you can't 4X4 then you should not be there. come on us your head!!!
The thing is up there at tollgate you will get a ticket if you are riding a snowmobile after a certian date in the spring, or for that fact before a certain date in the fall.
The state pays to have these trails groomed for snowmobiles why should your dollars go to grooming when it is being trashed by people that have no respect for the snowmobiler! There are miles and miles of ungroomed roads that the 4X4's can run on while the snow is so slim. But they don't use those roads because there not Groomed, and it takes more work to use these roads. Our groomed trails are like hwys to them.
I am all for everyone shareing, but when you have the 4x4 guys tearing up hill sides that the public can see, that the forest rangers can see, and the enviro's can see, and it is being used against us to close things up. Then something needs to be done.
We can't ride on the trails certain times of the yr. why should they.
So as stated before get a plate # and turn them into both the forest service for a federal ticket. Then turn them into the county sherif for a county ticket. Then maybe the word will get out.
Just because this is a low snow yr so far does not give them the right to tear up the groomed trails. It is unsafe to have them out there on our trails.
We should not have to have a war over this, due to it does create issues for closing area. If the 4X4 guys had some respect for the sleders they would not be on the trails. This is no different than the snowmobilers being in the wildernes. We can't be there so we don't go there. This time of yr. you can't 4X4 then you should not be there. come on us your head!!!
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B
Blue Jay
Member
"Instead of turning them in, why not stop and chat with 'em, shake some hands, have a beer if your into that, and mention the issue. Maybe they'd be willing to wheel up a less popular sled area the next time?"
... yeah, if you do that and they're just complete A-HOLES, then turn 'em in. But maybe the group will say "yeah, your right.. we didnt realize what we were REALLY doing. "WE" didnt see the harm in it... we're sorry man. Hey, how about a beer...and thanks for talking with us."
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suitcase
Well-known member
"Instead of turning them in, why not stop and chat with 'em, shake some hands, have a beer if your into that, and mention the issue. Maybe they'd be willing to wheel up a less popular sled area the next time?"
... yeah, if you do that and they're just complete A-HOLES, then turn 'em in. But maybe the group will say "yeah, your right.. we didnt realize what we were REALLY doing. "WE" didnt see the harm in it... we're sorry man. Hey, how about a beer...and thanks for talking with us."
I love to take this approach, in the past when doing this we all leave having a warm fuzzy feeling and everyone is happy. Then the next week the same A holes are at it again. following the groomer around, at night. So I just don't even mess with them any more.
But you are so right it would be best to deal with it this way. But the thing is we don't hender there driving around on the trails, but they do hender the people that ride the trails.
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