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2023/2024 Prediction

Chadly

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I hate to weigh on these last post as rustydave might resort to acid flashbacks and make fun of me but the cost of ownership on Ferraris and Lamborghinis is not that high from a maintenance and repair standpoint. Percentage wise snowmobiles are way higher. Those cars just cost 10 times as much so yes repairs cost more. You just hear about people crying about it because I would say a lot of people that buy them can't afford to own them.
 

indydan

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What a bunch of woke crybabies. For years, these forums were full of experts repeatedly begging for factory big bores and turbos, who stated they’d gladly give up warranty and who would have no problem placing $20k down on the counter for said machine. This was 10 years ago.

Polaris is now delivering on what we all said wanted and yet, the goal posts moved. Maybe you guys should just give up on sleds. I’m not sure Polaris’ continued failures and your disappointment is good for your health.

This is a great Post !

I completely agree and these Big Bore Protypes should not have warranty.

Dan
 

Sheetmetalfab

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……..
Going to the exotic car comparison, some people did drive them a lot more than the average owner. The vast majority of Ferraris, Porsches, and such are garage queens, but not all of them. I have an uncle who drove a Porsche for several years before he got married and moved on (and this was the early 70s). Porsche tends to be less "ragged edge" than other exotic makes (especially some vintages of Italian cars), but still, people found ways to make even cranky Italian cars work on a daily basis. It's very similar to some of the "garbage" sleds we've seen over the years: most of them could be turned into pretty reliable machines if their flaws were addressed.

That said, I'm not interested in buying a product I can't be confident in. There's nothing inherent to a performance two-stroke that makes it a time bomb, and we shouldn't accept that. Things have generally gotten better, but I can't ignore ongoing premature failures with the 850 (though the rate doesn't seem terrible after '19), the series 8 drive mess, or the head-smacking decision to use a garbage fuel strainer on the Boost.

For my purposes, I'd rather pay an extra $500 or lose 5 HP if it means going from, say, 5% to 1% failure rate. I'm not sure what the actual premature failure rates are, but it's way more than 1%. I understand other people prefer to push the envelope, and that's fine, but I sometimes feel like Polaris is only interested in catering to that market. The 9R is a perfect example: bigger pistons combined with a lighter rotating assembly simply isn't going to last as long and be as reliable. I think most of the people buying it know what they're getting into, but unless they pull a rabbit out of a hat, I may never be interested in that motor, and even the 850 has ground to gain.

My current sled ('12 Pro) is a flawed Polaris product that's been fixed and sorted, at a cost I estimate around $6000 (most was done before I bought it). All the improvements (long rod motor, added cooler, thermostat upgrade, fully-balanced and re-machined clutch, tunnel reinforcements, running boards, among others) could have been built into the sled by Polaris for an added cost of maybe $1500. But between accounting decisions and gunning for dry weight figures, that never happened. Believe me, I want light weight, and it would be nice not to see any more price escalation (fat chance), but I ride on whatever snow I can, my sled takes a tumble now and then, and I need it to stay cool and not bend and break more than I need to save a little money or 10lbs. My "worth it" meter when it comes to buying a new sled over upgrading to a used AXYS doesn't move nearly as much if I can't be certain I'm getting something at least as reliable as what I'm riding now. And that's doubtful. I'm with @NHRoadking: I'd be more likely to buy a new sled a couple years down the road if they can take what they have now and make it dead-reliable (obviously realizing 0% failure rate is impossible) than I am a 950 turbo with fricken laser beams.
Like mentioned many times over the years.

You are nowhere close to the target market. ?

Anytime someone talks about something new, expensive, powerful, shiny or whatever, there you are slapping your Debbie downer “anything more expensive than what I bought and am constantly purchase justifying on snowest is (too much)” attitude on everything.

It’s like a broken record. ?
 
Y

Y-not?

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What a bunch of woke crybabies. For years, these forums were full of experts repeatedly begging for factory big bores and turbos, who stated they’d gladly give up warranty and who would have no problem placing $20k down on the counter for said machine. This was 10 years ago.

Polaris is now delivering on what we all said wanted and yet, the goal posts moved. Maybe you guys should just give up on sleds. I’m not sure Polaris’ continued failures and your disappointment is good for your health.
AMEN
 
C
Dec 14, 2020
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I hate to weigh on these last post as rustydave might resort to acid flashbacks and make fun of me but the cost of ownership on Ferraris and Lamborghinis is not that high from a maintenance and repair standpoint. Percentage wise snowmobiles are way higher. Those cars just cost 10 times as much so yes repairs cost more. You just hear about people crying about it because I would say a lot of people that buy them can't afford to own them.


I have seen quite a few that would struggle to put $1 mil together driving exotics.

More often than not those that could drop $1 mil without a second thought are driving suburbans and f150's.

Supercars are a passion. They make zero sense financially but they're cool as hell. Smart money doesn't buy cars with $2k oil changes, that takes someone who cares about the car.
 

cateye5312

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Polaris unveiled a test EV sled at their investor meeting with the disclaimer that just because they have a test sled doesn't mean they are going to build it. Hmm ... awhile back they had a test EV Ranger and now they have one on the market.
 
C
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Polaris unveiled a test EV sled at their investor meeting with the disclaimer that just because they have a test sled doesn't mean they are going to build it. Hmm ... awhile back they had a test EV Ranger and now they have one on the market.

They make perfect sense on trails and ski hills. Utility based ones would be cool.

They won't make it too the mountains until better battery tech comes along. Lithium is still heavy compared to gas when it comes to energy density.
 

Fosgate

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Polaris unveiled a test EV sled at their investor meeting with the disclaimer that just because they have a test sled doesn't mean they are going to build it. Hmm ... awhile back they had a test EV Ranger and now they have one on the market.
I just don't see how an EV sled will overcome the condensation effect and wind up with water in places you don't want. I've seen videos of people removing panels in tesla's to find water running out and boards soaked in water. Electrical components still generate heat and with the exterior temp difference there is bound to have condensation accumulate in areas where those electrical components exist.
 

cateye5312

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They make perfect sense on trails and ski hills. Utility based ones would be cool.

They won't make it too the mountains until better battery tech comes along. Lithium is still heavy compared to gas when it comes to energy density.
Agreed. I think the big market will be utility sleds for places like ski resorts. Time will tell.
 

Chadly

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I have seen quite a few that would struggle to put $1 mil together driving exotics.

More often than not those that could drop $1 mil without a second thought are driving suburbans and f150's.

Supercars are a passion. They make zero sense financially but they're cool as hell. Smart money doesn't buy cars with $2k oil changes, that takes someone who cares about the car.
Hey, I drive a F-150 as my daily driver ?
 

summ8rmk

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I just don't see how an EV sled will overcome the condensation effect and wind up with water in places you don't want. I've seen videos of people removing panels in tesla's to find water running out and boards soaked in water. Electrical components still generate heat and with the exterior temp difference there is bound to have condensation accumulate in areas where those electrical components exist.
U need to research Tiaga.
They literally drove their snowmobile under water.
Will deliver e-sleds this fall.



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Fosgate

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U need to research Tiaga.
They literally drove their snowmobile under water.
Will deliver e-sleds this fall.



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Condensation effect has nothing to do with water outside. It has to do with temperature variations outside and inside an enclosure, moisture of the air internal to the enclose. You could seal up dry air to an air tight seal but then you have to worry about pressure (venturi effect) on condensation amongst other things that not like to operate in a pressurized environment. May or may not be a problem up front but personally I think the machine would experience a much shorter life span.
 

summ8rmk

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Condensation effect has nothing to do with water outside. It has to do with temperature variations outside and inside an enclosure, moisture of the air internal to the enclose. You could seal up dry air to an air tight seal but then you have to worry about pressure (venturi effect) on condensation amongst other things that not like to operate in a pressurized environment. May or may not be a problem up front but personally I think the machine would experience a much shorter life span.
I must disagree.
Condensation cannot happen without water outside, it is physically impossible to create condensation without our beloved H2O.

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Fosgate

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I must disagree.
Condensation cannot happen without water outside, it is physically impossible to create condensation without our beloved H2O.

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You might want to double check the science on that.
 
G
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I just don't see how an EV sled will overcome the condensation effect and wind up with water in places you don't want. I've seen videos of people removing panels in tesla's to find water running out and boards soaked in water. Electrical components still generate heat and with the exterior temp difference there is bound to have condensation accumulate in areas where those electrical components exist.
We have had CDIs in sleds for 50 years. And brushless motors for even longer. Batteries are not going to produce more heat than a set of triple pipes and that doesn't create a condensation problem. Some design challenges yes, but that is why we have engineers.

Battery and motor weight, in a sled for off-trail use and low temperature running time are much bigger engineering challenges, as I see it.
 

summ8rmk

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You might want to double check the science on that.
Not arguing about condensation damaging internals.

Just correcting u about the importance of water outside.

This will sound like a dikk statement, but either u don't understand what ur reading, or are in a hurry because u "know ur right".
I know ur smart, but I think u misunderstood.

U can't have water without water.

Water is not always in a liquid state, nor is it always visible.

Go to the dry desert and put a glass of ice water on the table.

Not come up here to Washington, take that same glass of ice water, and put on a table. You will see a difference.

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Mafesto

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I'll weigh I'm because I'm foolish enough to do so.
I have seen many outboard motors submerged, only to be retrieved and live a long life. Most often never experiencing any related failures. (starters, alternators, components etc)
 
C
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I just don't see how an EV sled will overcome the condensation effect and wind up with water in places you don't want. I've seen videos of people removing panels in tesla's to find water running out and boards soaked in water. Electrical components still generate heat and with the exterior temp difference there is bound to have condensation accumulate in areas where those electrical components exist.


Tesla has build issues and get driven in the rain.

I wouldn't worry about electric sleds. Fully potted control boards and drain holes in motor cases.
Electric motors don't really care about water. I've hooked up 3 phase 300hp jet pumps with the motors submerged in 200' of water because they use the water for cooling. They actually last longer under-water than in a hot dry space.
 

RMK-King

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Don't know if this will ever make production, but Roseau has one racing on the hill today.

a0a8fb62eda7e86205a632d16366919f.jpg


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NHRoadking

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Don't know if this will ever make production, but Roseau has one racing on the hill today.

a0a8fb62eda7e86205a632d16366919f.jpg


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What would be the point of a 650 boost? Why not just get the regular 850 or 9R instead if you want more than a 650 but don't want the 850 boost?
 
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