2013 m8 losing Rpm under load

[macphee8fiddy]

I have a 13 cat with a few mods just picked this one up this season

Stage 2 kit so

Full Jaws exhaust
BD Fuel controller
V force 3 reeds
Dalton clutch kit with helix and both springs

So sled works amazing pulls 8450 for rpm sometimes consistent on pulls for over 10 seconds and other times I can watch the rpm go 82 8 78 76 all the way down to 69 or until I let off the throttle and hit it again then it will jump to 8450 again and lose its rpm again in the same pull.


Tired primary spring or over weight in primary ?

Pulled some weight out and got my rpm from 82 to 8450 ( where it should be with the exhaust ) but still only holds peak rpm 40% of the time almost feels like the primary spring is binding up

Any input , just got off the mountain and haven't tore into anything yet

 

[kanedog]

Secondary is not back shifting. Recommend to rebuild both clutches to start out with good clutches.

If on a budget, change the secondary spring and see if anything changes. If nothing changes then you can do the clutches.

 

[macphee8fiddy]

Secondary is not back shifting. Recommend to rebuild both clutches to start out with good clutches.

If on a budget, change the secondary spring and see if anything changes. If nothing changes then you can do the clutches.

with the mods listed would u recommend going with a stiffer secondary spring maybe? i believe its a green Dalton spring ( i think its Dalton it has a Dalton helix ) , springs were the first thing on my list primary and secondary

i can pick up an 18 secondary for 300 Canadian, is that a good price and would it run fine with the stock secondary or would i need to get springs for it as well.

 

[kanedog]

with the mods listed would u recommend going with a stiffer secondary spring maybe? i believe its a green Dalton spring ( i think its Dalton it has a Dalton helix ) , springs were the first thing on my list primary and secondary

i can pick up an 18 secondary for 300 Canadian, is that a good price and would it run fine with the stock secondary or would i need to get springs for it as well.

Post some pics of the clutches. Let’s have a look see.

 

[macphee8fiddy]

Post some pics of the clutches. Let’s have a look see.

Well I guess there's a few good prices for team clutches kicking around , may grab one and throw a Dalton spring in and test the waters

 

[kanedog]

Heehee. I meant take some pics of the clutches on your machine.

 

[jim]

You don't need new clutches...just tuning. You need a secondary spring with a stronger finishing rate. Starting rate is probably about right as it hits the Rs at first, but as you climb the track will zing up at times when it is less loaded and shift out more, but you don't have enough secondary spring rate to back shift it once it goes past that shift point and you drop off the powerband. You may need a different helix also, to load it up more as you shift out.

 

[macphee8fiddy]

You don't need new clutches...just tuning. You need a secondary spring with a stronger finishing rate. Starting rate is probably about right as it hits the Rs at first, but as you climb the track will zing up at times when it is less loaded and shift out more, but you don't have enough secondary spring rate to back shift it once it goes past that shift point and you drop off the powerband. You may need a different helix also, to load it up more as you shift out.

yeah im running a full dalton kit, teal primary with quick weights and a green secondary ( unknown stripe will look when i get home ) and a d helix ( also unknown specs )

ill grab pictures and info on each when i get home and appreciate your help, also going to take them apart tonight and check the primary spring to make sure its not broken and end up replacing both springs regardless

 

[macphee8fiddy]

So yeah 45/37 helix with the heaviest spring Dalton offers for my sled green and gold , rollers seem fine and spring is not broke

Theese inside the helix were lose as sin and tore up pretty good ( unsure of actual part name ) ,both the self tapping screws holding them right stripped inside my Sheave so I'll either need to get bigger self rappers to hold them tight or new sheave , could that be my issue?

 

[kanedog]

Great pics and great find. With a clutch, if it can’t operate smoothly, back shifting and shifting will be erratic and you will get stuck lots.

I recommend a new clutch and a Hercules helix from thunder products. The pic of the new clutch that you posted is for a ‘17&up Cat. You will need one for a 2013. The 2013 era model of secondary clutches are known to fail so don’t be sad.

Most likely the primary will need some love also so don’t be sad if it needs some love and money too.

 

[Betterview]

Which belt are you using? If you are using the 084 try deglazing the clutches with scotch bright pads or some 400 grit paper. Sometimes that will work.
The 083 belt is less likely to do this if that is the problem. The 2015 clutches will work best and fit on the 2013

 

[kanedog]

I feel like part of a clutch team. We are all working together, learning together combining our experience for the good of the community and sledders alike. Kumbaya my friends.

Here’s a new clutch but check the fitment. I am unfamiliar with the part nums and years.

 

[sno*jet]

on a budget id clean those things up proper and address that issue you found. then id throw the stock parts back in the secondary with whatever weights they suggest and start from there. you might be surprised.

 

[macphee8fiddy]

Will team clutches bolt right up? And yeah Ill have new cams today so I'll throw them in and clean them up if I have to run it before I find a new set up , see how it goes

 

[macphee8fiddy]

Will team clutches bolt right up? And yeah Ill have new cams today so I'll throw them in and clean them up if I have to run it before I find a new set up , see how it goes

Answered my own question no they won't lol

 

[Vern]

I had good luck on my '14 with jaws pipe on nothing more than spring changes and running the 083 belt. My experience, Like mentioned above, the 084 likes to lose rpm as it heats up.

 

[macphee8fiddy]

I had good luck on my '14 with jaws pipe on nothing more than spring changes and running the 083 belt. My experience, Like mentioned above, the 084 likes to lose rpm as it heats up.

She was definitely working hard but I feel the rpm loss was to serious to just blame a belt it litterally would get me stuck,
I'll try a new belt too, tho , 'm a big fan of gates myself ,

I ordered that big fin clutch so I'll throw a new secondary spring spring same as what's in it and maybe my helix and see what happens , likely order a primary spring just for the fun of it as well.

 

[summ8rmk]

My 14 with jaws pipe, mds weights in a team primary, completely stock secondary, 20/49 gears, 3in claw, would pull 8400 no problem

Sent it

 

[boondocker97]

Had this same thing happening with my 2014 secondary. New spring was no help. Clutch was just worn out, binding, and not backshifting properly.

 

[kanedog]

She was definitely working hard but I feel the rpm loss was to serious to just blame a belt it litterally would get me stuck,
I'll try a new belt too, tho , 'm a big fan of gates myself ,

I ordered that big fin clutch so I'll throw a new secondary spring spring same as what's in it and maybe my helix and see what happens , likely order a primary spring just for the fun of it as well.

Excellent decision. It eliminates any secondary issues. Looking frwd to the results. It’s cool too as you get to learn about your sled along the way. I recommend a new helix. The bushing in the old one is worn and will contribute to premature wear and binding on the new clutch and it’s parts. Sometimes you can replace the bushing but I have no experience with the Dalton helix so I don’t know if it’s replaceable. Maybe give dalton a call and see if they have replacement bushings for the helix. Or buy a new one. Either way is good.
If using the old helix take some burgundy scotchbrite to your helix so it’s all nice and smooth where the rollers roll.