154 to 165 Conversion -Any Pics of DIY Experts

[beans]

Late last season I found a lightly used 2018 Summit 154 with an extended warranty. I want to convert it to a 165. I am hoping guys who have gone this route can help with their experience in the swap. Pics of the project during and after the swap would be appreciated.

Parts I know I need-
Track -I plan on using a stock 3.5 pitch 3.0 lug from Ski Doo. Is there a truly any better option? I want to retain stock drivers.
Rails -IceAge seems like the clear choice.
Snow Flap -Ski Doo Expert

What am I missing?

Thanks in Advance!

 

[02sedona]

-Stock track work great compared to most current options
-Ice age or stock rails
-Cut stock snow flap or buy removable one

Don’t forget
-Gearing change
-minor clutching due to extra track weight

 

[beans]

What is stock gearing on a 154? and a 165?

I just checked my parts bin and I have a 19 and 20 top gear in the garage.

 

[beans]

As far as I can tell stock gearing on a 2018 154 is - 21x51 which is a 2.43 ratio

So if I go with a 20x51 that gets me to a 2.55. Which is slightly lower than the stock 165 gearing 21x53 at 2.52

I like tuning from the top first as I want to retain the stock chain.

 

[02sedona]

That 20 tooth sounds perfect. Stock chain will fit

 

[Trashy]

I’ll be watching this thread closely... I was planning to snowcheck a 165 expert but I chickened out with the whole covid thing going on so that means I’m stuck on my ‘19 154 for another year....

 

[Tjtwenty]

I turned a 19 freeride into an expert last year. I used a kmod skid and went 162 instead of 165. Used 9" rear idlers and used a M67 track, 2.86 pitch. Didn't use any snowflap. It was an awesome setup.

 

[kasey200]

2018 SP was originally 154". Ice Age bomber 165 rails, stock doo 165x3"x3.5 pitch track, 19Tx51T gearing. Stock was 21Tx51T

 

[dave850]

I did the same 154 to 165 on my summit 2018.

I bought track and rails second hand and plan on using the 21x51 tooth that came stock.
Im going to use Adrenaline clutch kit from modshop.se. According to them their clutch kit will work very good with the higher gearing.

I replaced the aluminium lip with the one from an expert together with the expert snowflap.

 

[beans]

Thanks Dave850! I am slowly amassing parts... my knee was replaced 2 weeks ago and I am not quite ready to wrench yet.

I have the Expert snow-flap. The aluminum lip looks like (BRP PN# 518328990). It is only $19.00 so order that too.

As a part of this build I am sending my Fox Evol shocks in to Toms for service and replacing T-Motion with Z-Bros arms and rather than installing the Expert spindles I am installing Duropro ski dampers.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

As far as I can tell stock gearing on a 2018 154 is - 21x51 which is a 2.43 ratio
So if I go with a 20x51 that gets me to a 2.55. Which is slightly lower than the stock 165 gearing 21x53 at 2.52
I like tuning from the top first as I want to retain the stock chain.

Buddy...Here is a gear chart

iBackshift.com - Gearing

Gear calculator

calculator | iBackShift

www.ibackshift.com

use 50.29 for a G4 x 3.0 track.

2018~newer 154 x 3.0 stock gear is 21-51 @ 116p chain.
165 is 21-53 @ 116p chain.
if you are going to a 53 bottom gear, you can go straight to a 19 top gear for 19-53. There is 1.5cm in between the inside of the chain loop. There is a dog leg, but there is no torque on the slider shoe adjuster when full throttle or hand brake. Only time torque is on the slider shoe is when you engine brake or use reverse.
Other than that if wanting to go 19-53 with smaller chain then 114p chain.

Picture what 19-53 w/114p chain looks like here...

G4 Engine Mount Update Kit 2019 (pics)

www.dootalk.com

Any lower gearing will give you more "track speed staying power" in other words, whatever track speed you hit equilibrium with in a pull, then the track speed will have more strength to resist load changes, AND, when you throttle chop for "X" or "Y" reason, the track speed will recover back to equilibrium quicker than a taller gear. You could lose say 11mph with a 23 top gear on a throttle chop, and have to recover that back. With a 21 top gear, lose 7mph and only have to recover 7mph back. The guy with the taller gear, having to cycle the throttle to "make it" will spend more time trying to accelerate the track to equilibrum every time they chop throttle. Where the guy with the lower gear, their track speed recovers quick so they spend more time AT max track speed in a pull.

Lower gearing is belligerent on 2 prongs. Prong 1 it fights harder to "maintain" track speed and, prong 2, gearing lower doesnt-yield-to and is wilfully-disobedient-to guys who say "gearing up is mandatory", meaning you dont give them control over your actions of what you want to learn.

Try gearing up and drive it for a while and take mental note of the deficiencies "i wish i had this or that"
then after you have your sea-legs with that...
try gearing lower and same procedure. See if the lower gearing filled in the gaps (deficiencies) you took note of with the taller gear.

 

[beans]

Thanks Joey

I am going with a 20/51.

 

[beans]

 

[beans]

Project is complete. So I though I would post some before and after pics.

 

[Pownar]

2020’ 154 SP
to
165” Doo 3.0 w/KMOD Skid
New Fox lightweights all around

 

[donbrown]

Buddy...Here is a gear chart

iBackshift.com - Gearing

Gear calculator

calculator | iBackShift

www.ibackshift.com

use 50.29 for a G4 x 3.0 track.

2018~newer 154 x 3.0 stock gear is 21-51 @ 116p chain.
165 is 21-53 @ 116p chain.
if you are going to a 53 bottom gear, you can go straight to a 19 top gear for 19-53. There is 1.5cm in between the inside of the chain loop. There is a dog leg, but there is no torque on the slider shoe adjuster when full throttle or hand brake. Only time torque is on the slider shoe is when you engine brake or use reverse.
Other than that if wanting to go 19-53 with smaller chain then 114p chain.

Picture what 19-53 w/114p chain looks like here...

G4 Engine Mount Update Kit 2019 (pics)

www.dootalk.com

Any lower gearing will give you more "track speed staying power" in other words, whatever track speed you hit equilibrium with in a pull, then the track speed will have more strength to resist load changes, AND, when you throttle chop for "X" or "Y" reason, the track speed will recover back to equilibrium quicker than a taller gear. You could lose say 11mph with a 23 top gear on a throttle chop, and have to recover that back. With a 21 top gear, lose 7mph and only have to recover 7mph back. The guy with the taller gear, having to cycle the throttle to "make it" will spend more time trying to accelerate the track to equilibrum every time they chop throttle. Where the guy with the lower gear, their track speed recovers quick so they spend more time AT max track speed in a pull.

Lower gearing is belligerent on 2 prongs. Prong 1 it fights harder to "maintain" track speed and, prong 2, gearing lower doesnt-yield-to and is wilfully-disobedient-to guys who say "gearing up is mandatory", meaning you dont give them control over your actions of what you want to learn.

Try gearing up and drive it for a while and take mental note of the deficiencies "i wish i had this or that"
then after you have your sea-legs with that...
try gearing lower and same procedure. See if the lower gearing filled in the gaps (deficiencies) you took note of with the taller gear.

Whats the part number for the 114p chain?

 

[donbrown]

2020’ 154 SP
to
165” Doo 3.0 w/KMOD Skid
New Fox lightweights all around

Did the snow flap come in a kit ... or factory single??

 

[beans]

The Expert snow flap is not part of a kit. PN# 520002051 There is also a rear cap that you will need PN# 518331294

The snow flap is $31 the rear cap assembly is $47. In an earlier post I had included the incorrect rear cap Part Number.

 

[BirdmanID]

Did the snow flap come in a kit ... or factory single??

They do sell a removable snow flap kit for G4 models that did not come as expert. It comes with the correct rivets and everything to just do a quick change over.

 

[yeti99]

Is the expert snow flap a direct bolt on to non-expert tunnels?