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Land Use Issues that affect riding areas.
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Old 01-22-2016, 05:30 PM
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Default no grooming litigation in California

Most of California are grooming with many feet of snow on the ground.

The most southern groomed area of the National Forest is not groomed and has 2 to 6 feet on the trails.

A "group" has files a lawsuit stating the endangered yellow legged frog which lives in a meadow and winter hibernates in tall grass roots may be effected.

The NFS has never seen this frog & does not know if any are in this forest.

So how can they approve grooming (on paved roads underneath) (no meadows) if they can't even find the endangered species?

Any recommendations on who I can ask to help?

SAWS?
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Old 01-22-2016, 06:39 PM
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I have observed that the eco movement basically follows the same model. It goes something like this-
1. Harmful to endangered species
2. Destructive to the environment
3. Pollution and noise from diesel groomers(snowmobiles etc) is harmful to environment
4. Scares wildlife.

This model is used daily throughout the world except delete groomers and insert whatever vehicle they don't like.
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Old 01-22-2016, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by kanedog View Post
I have observed that the eco movement basically follows the same model. It goes something like this-
1. Harmful to endangered species
2. Destructive to the environment
3. Pollution and noise from diesel groomers(snowmobiles etc) is harmful to environment
4. Scares wildlife.

This model is used daily throughout the world except delete groomers and insert whatever vehicle they don't like.
Is there a WAY TO convince NFS to groom? Is there a legal defense fund?
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Old 01-26-2016, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donbrown View Post
Is there a WAY TO convince NFS to groom? Is there a legal defense fund?




Who actually does the grooming? In Colorado the clubs do the grooming using money the state collects from us as registration fees.


There is a legal defense fund, they are using it against you right now. They have been doing this for decades. You do not have access to this fund.


SAWS has been dead and gone for years now. Proof that you are involved in an uphill battle you do not have the resources to fight.


Good Luck
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Old 01-28-2016, 02:58 AM
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Who actually does the grooming? In Colorado the clubs do the grooming using money the state collects from us as registration fees.


There is a legal defense fund, they are using it against you right now. They have been doing this for decades. You do not have access to this fund.


SAWS has been dead and gone for years now. Proof that you are involved in an uphill battle you do not have the resources to fight.


Good Luck
For this forest Sequoia the NFS does the grooming ... after the snow melts the upkeep of the forest ... tree planting , fuel , road repair , NFS payroll , tree cutting

Getting advice from American Council of Snowmobile Associations

It seems the California groups have broken up because of money constraints and only taking care of specific riding areas and not all riding areas.

Although I paid dues for the California Nevada Snowmobile Association been told by other groups they don't have the resources to help.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:16 AM
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The way this works is that the greenies use a legal defense fund set up for plants and animals that can not speak for themselves. You would just like to have the right to recreate on public land, there is no govt legal defense fund for your rights unfortunately.


Then you have the outrageous donations collected from do gooder greenies with big city money/trust funds. I have actually seen the donation list from a couple like this. Retired trust funders and on the first two pages, of ten, there was over $250k in donations to all kinds of anti motorized groups. These people are not alone and between the legal defense fund access and donations, we do not stand a chance money wise.


Once the sled community finally figures this out, our only chance to save our sport will come down to civil disobedience. They will legislate us out of existence and actual protest, something beyond attending meetings and writing letters, will be the only hope.
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Old 01-29-2016, 02:47 AM
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Talked Friday afternoon to the National Forest Service supervisors head office for Region 5. They are in charge of the entire state of California .

The mountain yellow legged frog became an endangered species a few years ago. It used to be all over the Sierras BUT** Fish and Game allowed foreign fish in the streams and these non local fish ate all the tadpoles **!!!!!

So 93% of the Sierras where the frog MAY HAVE LIVED has no frogs.

The NEPA National Environmental Policy Act requires an analysis to be performed to see the impact of various activities (grooming) will have on an endangered species.

Then an EIA environmental Impact statement is made public for feedback and comment . This takes about a month and is typically performed in August -September for grooming

Fish and Game made an impact analysis for the mountain yellow legged frog and did not mention any analysis performed for the Sequoia National Forest.

An environmental group filed a complaint and litigated all areas considered a suitable habitat must have a Impact Analysis and EIA performed.

Since the Sequoia National Forest has no Impact Analysis and EIA performed for the mountain yellow legged frog in the Sequoia Forest ... no grooming can be performed per federal law.

Based on the necessary steps to get paperwork advising the impact of grooming will take over a MONTH AFTER the analysis is complete.

TODAY the NFS does not know if or WHEN FISH and GAME COMPLETED THE ANALYSIS FOR THE SEQUOIA FOREST
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Old 02-14-2016, 04:30 AM
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No hope....ask the Hammonds & Bundy's, this POS WH occupant will now clos down everything he can!
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Old 02-17-2016, 10:00 AM
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it is so sad to see this happening and 99% of snowmobilers could give a crap. makes me mad, but just look at the forums- hundreds viewing the sled related threads to find out which pipe to buy. 4 viewing the land use thread. the only hope i believe is to hope for a republican president because most snowmobilers will not fight for their right to use public lands. and the 1% that do fight for it can't do all the work. Anyway, good luck with your issue, sometimes it just takes a few phone calls to the FS and asking some questions and building a relationship with them. local Clubs are soooo important as well.
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Old 02-19-2016, 03:02 AM
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The POTUS just declared over a million acres in California a Natl Monument .

So no more riding in those areas !!!!
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Old 03-10-2016, 03:08 PM
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Old 09-20-2016, 10:35 PM
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:59 PM
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