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Old 04-09-2008, 06:29 AM
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Default Head shim?

What's the difference on the Turbo nytros with and without the head shim?
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:13 PM
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Without head-shim will mean higher compression, quicker throttle response, more power (especially down low), also more prone to deto. Consequently, you need to run better fuel at similar boost levels compared to a similar setup with a head-shim.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by SAWYER View Post
What's the difference on the Turbo nytros with and without the head shim?
oh oh sawyers coming to the dark side

pretty much what remmy said if you run really high elevation above 8000ft you dont need the head shim but below its recommended so you can run pump fuel without detonation probs ,deto is really bad for a 4stroke.
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Old 04-09-2008, 12:48 PM
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Similar to a thicker base gasket, in some ways, which also will lower compression.

From 2 stroke thinking:

Its like installing lower compression domes/head.

Without the head shim, its like higher compression domes/head.


I think MCX shim turns compression to 9:1 or so. Least thats the one I skimmed through and saw. I'm unsure of stock compression..


Another twist is, the turbo/sc is 'compressing' the air which in a sense increases compression.

Example 1 (by no means to scale), say you have stock 12:1 compression, you are running 10 lbs of boost, compression would increase (at full boost) to 16:1 (again, no idea what or how exactly it works out)..

Example 2, say you have head shim compression of 9:1, running 10 lbs of boost, compression would increase to 13:1


Example 1 would essentially require lets say straight (at least 50/50?) race/AV fuel to keep running w/o detonation/pinging, etc

Example 2 would be safe on 91 octane pump fuel.


Which essentially is also why running higher boost requires higher octane fuel, in a backwards (well, maybe it is direct) way, your increasing compression and need to combat pre-ignition/deto with higher quality fuel.


And I could be off on how the 2 come together, but this is how I've understood it, which at least in my own head makes some sense. :P Someone who really knows the mechanics of it can surely get into more detail of boost and head compression relations, I'd definately be interested in an explanation.
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Old 04-09-2008, 04:58 PM
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Yes, I'm coming to the dark side next season. Damn, I made fun of yammis for so long too.

Thanks for the info guys
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:41 PM
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Default psi vs comp

Does anyone have a good idea what makes more HP--boost or comp. EG: will an engine with 12:1 at 15lbs make more or less Hp than a 9:1 engine at say 18lbs. If anyone has actual numbers please post them. As for the fuel requirements, compression or boost, when you reach a certain HP level you will require better fuel regardless. If you can run a shim at 12lbs down low, you can run a stock engine you will just have to lower the boost, HP should be the same.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:43 PM
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hey buddy, would you ever consider putting a head shim on a two stroke?? It is going to affect the motor the same. buck up and buy the race gas or leave the boost down.

check out my new baby, I also went to the dark side, this season
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:58 PM
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Head shim on a two stroke is really not an option. Most modern 2 strokes have o rings to seal the head which won't work. You are better off the install a spacer plate or 2 base gaskets at the cylinder base.
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan7 View Post
Does anyone have a good idea what makes more HP--boost or comp. EG: will an engine with 12:1 at 15lbs make more or less Hp than a 9:1 engine at say 18lbs. If anyone has actual numbers please post them. As for the fuel requirements, compression or boost, when you reach a certain HP level you will require better fuel regardless. If you can run a shim at 12lbs down low, you can run a stock engine you will just have to lower the boost, HP should be the same.
ok here you go

at 11.8:1 witch is stock for a apex with a base horsepower of 150hp at 0ft elevation with a base octane of 87-88 at 15lbs boost you will need to run 104 oct & will make just over 300hp.

at 9.1 with the same motor at 18lbs boost you will make about 320+hp & will have to run 100oct.

these are minimal oct # its always better to run a little higher to be safe
hope this helps.
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:34 PM
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Old 04-09-2008, 08:50 PM
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:37 PM
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:09 PM
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:31 PM
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