Looking for more info on Shot start

Barcode · Mar 20, 2017

Hey guys, anyone have more in-depth info on the Shot start system. Ive gone through whats out there. We've been experimenting with Super caps on our sleds all year now. Our last test showed that the Super cap pack we are using so far has held it charge for 11 hours and then started the sled. (2013 XM) at 14.2v
Im just trying to find out what part of the Shot system is causing such a rapid drain on the Super caps? So far the only thing I can come up with is the Etec computer stays energized. Or the Super caps Doo is using are just way to small.

We'll find out this fall, as were going to be snow checking one. Thanks Christopher!!(been reading your threads) We were a pretty solid Yamaha guy. Well that and the Cat chassis the Viper has really opens our eyes. HAHA

Cheers

Allan

Barcode · Mar 20, 2017

https://youtu.be/o78yv12k2Qw
https://youtu.be/zc6nDQ1MQEk

Teth-Air · Mar 20, 2017

I heard that the quick discharge was way over exaggerated and it will hold much longer than advertised.

christopher · Mar 20, 2017

Teth-Air said:
I heard that the quick discharge was way over exaggerated and it will hold much longer than advertised.

That is exactly what I have heard as well!

Teth-Air · Mar 20, 2017

Barcode said:
Hey guys, anyone have more in-depth info on the Shot start system. Ive gone through whats out there. We've been experimenting with Super caps on our sleds all year now. Our last test showed that the Super cap pack we are using so far has held it charge for 11 hours and then started the sled. (2013 XM) at 14.2v
Im just trying to find out what part of the Shot system is causing such a rapid drain on the Super caps? So far the only thing I can come up with is the Etec computer stays energized. Or the Super caps Doo is using are just way to small.

We'll find out this fall, as were going to be snow checking one. Thanks Christopher!!(been reading your threads) We were a pretty solid Yamaha guy. Well that and the Cat chassis the Viper has really opens our eyes. HAHA

Cheers

Allan

Are you using a charge resistor with your capacitors to protect the lighting coil from overloading? We use 50 Watt resistor.

christopher · Mar 20, 2017

Barcode said:
Hey guys, anyone have more in-depth info on the Shot start system. Ive gone through whats out there. We've been experimenting with Super caps on our sleds all year now. Our last test showed that the Super cap pack we are using so far has held it charge for 11 hours and then started the sled. (2013 XM) at 14.2v
Im just trying to find out what part of the Shot system is causing such a rapid drain on the Super caps? So far the only thing I can come up with is the Etec computer stays energized. Or the Super caps Doo is using are just way to small.

We'll find out this fall, as were going to be snow checking one. Thanks Christopher!!(been reading your threads) We were a pretty solid Yamaha guy. Well that and the Cat chassis the Viper has really opens our eyes. HAHA

Cheers

Allan

Right there with ya Allan.
LOVED my Viper.
It was a HUGE step forward for Yamaha.
But the 850 just handles SO MUCH BETTER.
And if you liked the Viper with boost, just wait till you take a boosted 850 out for a spin. OH MY >>..

Barcode · Mar 20, 2017

Teth-Air said:
Are you using a charge resistor with your capacitors to protect the lighting coil from overloading? We use 50 Watt resistor.

The Ucaps were using are pre built onto a circuit board, that has the safely measure built in. Im not sure I would trust just the Ucpaps just on their own.

Barcode · Mar 20, 2017

christopher said:
That is exactly what I have heard as well!

Thats encouraging. 30 min seems to me way to short. Since Im seeing 11 hours so far from our Ucap pack. My suspicion is the magneto or the computer is "active" so its causing a drain on the system.
What are you hearing in regards to times? 60min? 2 hours?

NHRoadking · Mar 20, 2017

Dave Narona has a video on Youtube on the Shot system. After waiting an hour with the sleds off, the sled started with Shot.

He said after 35 minutes with the sled off, the system goes down to 95% and after an hour, it's down to 80%.

The longest he's gone that he's posted about is two hours with the sled off, and it started up.

Norona · Mar 20, 2017

NHRoadking said:
Dave Narona has a video on Youtube on the Shot system. After waiting an hour with the sleds off, the sled started with Shot.

He said after 35 minutes with the sled off, the system goes down to 95% and after an hour, it's down to 80%.

The longest he's gone that he's posted about is two hours with the sled off, and it started up.

actually more like 2.5 hours and started but then did a little over three hours and it did not start. Yes Ski-Doo is downplaying the shot system and also it works better in the warmer climate of BC over Quebec and colder places...so keeping the numbers low allows for worse case senerio

NHRoadking · Mar 20, 2017

Norona said:
actually more like 2.5 hours and started but then did a little over three hours and it did not start. Yes Ski-Doo is downplaying the shot system and also it works better in the warmer climate of BC over Quebec and colder places...so keeping the numbers low allows for worse case senerio

That is impressive!

SidewaysInto3rd · Mar 20, 2017

I wonder what the weight advantage of SHOT is over the G4 e-start with a light weight battery (i.e. earthx)

I'm willing to bet it's within 5 lbs ..

I love the idea of not having a starter motor ... but why didn't they use a light weight battery instead of the capacitor (probably with no weight penalty) and there would be no need for pull starting .. ever :juggle:

Barcode · Mar 21, 2017

Norona said:
actually more like 2.5 hours and started but then did a little over three hours and it did not start. Yes Ski-Doo is downplaying the shot system and also it works better in the warmer climate of BC over Quebec and colder places...so keeping the numbers low allows for worse case senerio

Hi Dave, thanks for the input. Nice to get some first hand info. Do you know why the Ucaps drain? Is it because the computer is "active or energized" for the system to work?

NHRoadking · Mar 21, 2017

SidewaysInto3rd said:
I wonder what the weight advantage of SHOT is over the G4 e-start with a light weight battery (i.e. earthx)

I'm willing to bet it's within 5 lbs ..

I love the idea of not having a starter motor ... but why didn't they use a light weight battery instead of the capacitor (probably with no weight penalty) and there would be no need for pull starting .. ever :juggle:

With SHOT, you lose the starter and ring gear.

If you kept the starter and ring gear and went with a lightweight battery, you would not save as much weight.

I like the idea of the SHOT system because you get light weight and the pull start too.

Tahoe54 · Mar 21, 2017

Barcode said:
Hey guys, anyone have more in-depth info on the Shot start system. Ive gone through whats out there. We've been experimenting with Super caps on our sleds all year now. Our last test showed that the Super cap pack we are using so far has held it charge for 11 hours and then started the sled. (2013 XM) at 14.2v
Im just trying to find out what part of the Shot system is causing such a rapid drain on the Super caps? So far the only thing I can come up with is the Etec computer stays energized. Or the Super caps Doo is using are just way to small.

We'll find out this fall, as were going to be snow checking one. Thanks Christopher!!(been reading your threads) We were a pretty solid Yamaha guy. Well that and the Cat chassis the Viper has really opens our eyes. HAHA

Cheers

Allan

So you had designed a similar system to Shot starting a little over a year ago or what were you using the super cap for?

Barcode · Mar 21, 2017

Tahoe54 said:
So you had designed a similar system to Shot starting a little over a year ago or what were you using the super cap for?

Our's started off as a way to send more consistent voltage to the Vipers ECU. With a lower voltage it would case some issues. And the light weight Lithium batteries were horrible in super cold weather. So we were looking for a alternative.

boondocker99 · Mar 21, 2017

SidewaysInto3rd said:
I wonder what the weight advantage of SHOT is over the G4 e-start with a light weight battery (i.e. earthx)

I'm willing to bet it's within 5 lbs ..

I love the idea of not having a starter motor ... but why didn't they use a light weight battery instead of the capacitor (probably with no weight penalty) and there would be no need for pull starting .. ever :juggle:

Keep in mind with the Shot you NEED a pull start whereas with the ES you do not so that can be another 5 lbs or so for the Shot system. I know a lot of people add a recoil to ES models for backup but I bet 99% have never used it other then if they let their battery die.

As for why they didn't just use a battery for Shot or a hybrid ES is because the battery probably can't release the same amount of power in a burst like the capacitors can...

I hate starting code sleds in an enclosed trailer (limited room to pull) so I'm going with the ES and will likely add a EarthX battery at some point to bring down the weight...

Tahoe54 · Mar 21, 2017

Barcode said:
Our's started off as a way to send more consistent voltage to the Vipers ECU. With a lower voltage it would case some issues. And the light weight Lithium batteries were horrible in super cold weather. So we were looking for a alternative.

Interesting, were you guys selling this in a kit at all?

Norona · Mar 21, 2017

Barcode said:
Hi Dave, thanks for the input. Nice to get some first hand info. Do you know why the Ucaps drain? Is it because the computer is "active or energized" for the system to work?

Sorry I do not know the answer to that question.

madmax · Mar 21, 2017

NHRoadking said:
With SHOT, you lose the starter and ring gear

The 850 doesn't really use a ring gear (clutch mounted) like the traditional sled e-start. The starter engages the flywheel on the magneto. The teeth on the flywheel I'm pretty sure aren't removable.

Looking for more info on Shot start

SnoWest Sponsor

SnoWest Sponsor

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

SnoWest Sponsor

SnoWest Sponsor

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

SnoWest Sponsor

Well-known member

Well-known member

SnoWest Sponsor

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads