Lets try this again. Post the basics nothing else.
It seems like track speed really doesn't mean much, but I'm still curious to know what others are seeing. What I would like to know is,
1 elevation 9-10000ft
2 lbs of boost 6lbs
3 what sled 09 HCR
4 who's kit Twisted
Speed around 42mph
or any other good info
I know there are more factors too.
At 9-10000ft from a died stop going WOT in deep snow before I really gained speed but the sled built power I was getting about 42mph TS and holding around there. Twisted rg 09 HCR on 6lbs of boost and holding 12.5ish on the A/F and 81-8200rpm, to me it seems really low but was still pulling like a turbo. I know there have been times I have seen 47mph on my m1000 at the same elevation but he hcr will fly past the m1000. So just wondering what you guys are seeing. Remember this doesn't really mean much so don't over analyze it, just board and curious.
Other post.
POWDER POUNDER
I found the sme thing Track speed does not make sence sometimes. In 07 hade a m8 and m1000 both getting same track speed. m8 lighter should be going faster and higher. No m1000 was dominating both sleds riden by me. does not make sence??? I had a pump gas m8 that ran hard and only got 45mph track speed at times at 6000 ft. It destroyed stock sleds that said they were getting 50mph track speed.
COXY
Same thing here, 43 or so on my cpc pump gas at just under 6psi, 153 claw at 6-7000 feet with pretty heavy snow.
WYOBOY1000
Its almost comical, So I must be doing pretty decent at 9000+ft to be getting 42-43mph. I noticed last year my buddies BD pg M1000 was only pulling around 45-51mph on 5lbs and my piped m1000 was pulling 47mph and I was turning out about 70% of the way up and his pulled a wheelie over the top. Me riding both.
CATMAN 42
The way I measure track speed is on a steep climb with deep enough snow that I may not make it to the top. When the ground speed is down to about 10 mph I check the speed. I usually see at least 60.
06 M7 bored to 8 Garrett 2871
13lbs on avgas
162 powerclaw
6500'
WYO
Thats about How I checked it also. your basically running the same thing I am (m8 with a 2871) other than a 162, at that elevation and boost it seems to be on the same scale. My piped 07 m1000 at 6k would turn 55-60mph, stock challenger track.
If some of you that read this don't know what your turning would you look next time and post it.
MYNEWUSEDDOO
Excelent thread! I have been wondering the same from other turbo riders also.
7000 feet
9 psi boost
CPC stage 2
50/50 av/premium
2009 M8 162
powerclaw
gearing 57/63 (stock).....for now
8000 RPM
12.3-12.5 AFR
CPC secondary w/green spring set at 5
Primary, CPC gold spring and 80-90 gram turbo mags at 86 grams.
In a fresh, steep and deep climb 46-50 mph. Climbing the same grade in a harder packed snow I can see as high as 55-57 mph.
Thank you for the honesty from everybody. Before I bought the turbo I would always hear stuff like "a solid 60 mph in a deep climb", from guys running pump gas kits at lower boost than I am running. With seeing my track speeds in the deep snow climbs only hitting 46-50 mph and running higher boost than them had me thinking something might be wrong or my clutching was off.
I am lowering my gearing to 54/66 to hopefully gain a little more from the really deep heavy snow climbs and pick up the track speed into the mid 50's. I'd like to see 55 mph in a deep climb at 9 psi boost.
Or I could just turn the boost up I suppose
I will report back after I get to ride the new gear set and see the difference.(Mid February)
SSWIM
Great thread. Nice to hear "honest" track speeds. I check mine similar to the above posts. Steep pull, deep snow. Track speeds for my sleds.
Elevation-10k-13k'
OVS TM1200-3076\Fastlane tunnel-162 PC-Timbersled Suspension 13-15Lbs.Boost----85-90MPH
TAPEX-Midmount 2871\LCC tunnel-174CE-20-22 lbs boost----75-80MPH
OVS TM8-RG\153" 15-17 Lbs. Boost----55-60MPH
Almost all of our riding is above 11K'. It is amazing how elevation once you get over 10k' effects the sleds performance. Even with BIG turbos. It is exponential and at 13K, they really "suck". HAHAHA
These are average speeds. Sometimes a little higher, sometimes lower.
Sam
MATT159
2008 m8 153"
stock gearing
EGT's 1225-1275
08 Boondocker RG w/ large intercooler & fan
100% 100LL
Watching playback on helmet cam, I could see track speed well.
10.5psi at 10,000 feet 7800-7900rpm (I know.. not enough rpm)
Starts at 53-55mph & holds 45mph at side-hill/turn-out velocity.
Spun the boost-Tee to 12.5psi & hit it again 8100-8200rpm
Starts at 60-62mph & holds 50-52mph at side-hill/turn-out velocity.
The above hill is about 400 vertical feet (7-fools) & track speed was surprisingly consistent on multiple pulls.
Over at Sugarloaf at 10.5psi on snow that you can stay on top of (crusty), it starts at 80mph & pulls down to 70mph, but pulls right back to 80mph as you wheelie over the top.
TWSANDREW
All around 9-10k ft
Twisted RG M1k 174
13 - 18lbs. Mid 70s to low 90s. Was a full 10mph faster with the 162 PC track but the land speed is obviously faster in deep snow and slightly slower in hard pack with the CE 174.
Impulse Race Apex 174 with gobs of motor work and an HTA 3071
92-115mph 17 - 25 lbs
Not bragging just sayin...
CPATTS2000
twisted m1000 race gas
7-8 lbs 4-6k feet
Geared down 1 ratio for belt heat(dont really know if it helped much) and it holds a steady 65-70 mph in bottomless light snow,
09 dragon pgt 7-8lbs,
never saw over 55mph.
My 1000 absolutely stomps the 8 into the ground, not even comparable
MNTCAT800
09 M8 P/G pushing 7.5 lbs, around 9000 ft last weekend in moderately heavy powder was turning 43 to 48 constantly, hit 50 to 51 occaisionaly.
BOOSTED1
stock gearing for a M8 with a 162 is 74mph
I geared my CPC to 104mph works excellent
COMPOUND 1300
elevation 9000 (cooke city) 12 to 14 pounds of boost, 09 M-8 153 power claw, Cutler stage III burning 110 race fuel. track speed of 60 to 65 in dry pow, in wet heavy snow 50 to 55. i have found at times with a short track high track speed will work aginst you.
Reply With Quote
M8LOVIN
07 m8 stock 153 challenger. Twisted kit running 9.5# @ 6500' on 100ll. mellow hill in about 2.5' of pretty heavy powder i was seeing around 54-55 mph.
COXY
Did some playing today. Right on 6psi, tuned decent, new primary clutch due to spider rollers ****ting the bed, some rear suspension tweaks to work on the wheelie situation, was getting 48 most of the day, some spots 50. Pretty setup powder, but slow ground speed, letting it dig. Not sure what to attribute the mph gain, but I'm guessing a good working primary? Either way the sled was rippin today, sun was shining, and I was smiling!
BACKCOUNTRYISLIFE
looked this weekend, forgot to check before turning it up a bit, but..
11psi,
10,500-11,500 feet
3 gal AVgas 7-8 gal 91.
CF800 with 141PC
cutler stage II
I looked twice on small pulls in rather loose snow, first time down lower was 68 second time was 65 about 1000 feet higher. I didn't get a long look, so I may not be seeing some fluctuation, but two speeds that are pretty close I guess are worth reporting.
I'll have it as 13-14 psi next weekend, we'll see how that compares.
Keep in mind, it's a 141, I would HOPE I'd have way more track speed... I need it to keep up with a longer sled!
JEFF K
1 elevation 6-8000ft
2 lbs of boost 6lbs
3 what sled 09 M8 153
4 who's kit Cutler Stage 2
5 gearing 54/66
Speed around 55mph (deep heavy snow). For comparison, a stock 09 M1000 153 on the same hill was running 42mph track speed.
I lowered my gearing to 54/66 with a BDX diamond lite drive shortly after my turbo install last year and noticed a gain in track speed, as seen in the data above. I chose to lower the gearing for multiple reasons:
1. Lower gearing loads the engine more, which will help build boost. By lowering the geairng, the secondary is more sensitive to load which will make it shift out faster putting more load on the engine.
2. Lower gearing generally helps increase belt life
3. The M-Series sleds have always been geared too high IMO. If you ever see comparisons of the different sleds back to back, the M8 will lose the acceleration test every time, but always seems to win in top speed. For me, a mountain sled does not need to be geared to run 95mph+, unless I have the power to turn the track at 80mph in a climb.
4. The sled is WAY more fun to ride!
Clutches loose efficiency fast as they shift from a 1:1 ratio (belt has same diameter in both primary and secondary) into overdrive (belt has larger diameter in primary and smaller diameter in secondary) so the idea is to gear so that you are in the 1:1 range to ensure you are putting the maximum power to the track.
Here is a good book to read about clutching and gearing theory:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30484148/C...uning-Handbook
After reading the book, by my calculations the 1:1 ratio for 54/66 is 66mph, for 57/63 is 73mph and for 60/60 is 80mph (All assuming an M8 running 8000 rpm).
Clutching and gearing go hand in hand. Just changing the gearing on a sled may not always work out if the clutching is not setup to work with the new gears. By lowering the gearing, you need a quality secondary clutching setup. In my case, Cutler supplied their torsional conversion setup with the turbo kit which works fantastic.
It seems like track speed really doesn't mean much, but I'm still curious to know what others are seeing. What I would like to know is,
1 elevation 9-10000ft
2 lbs of boost 6lbs
3 what sled 09 HCR
4 who's kit Twisted
Speed around 42mph
or any other good info
I know there are more factors too.
At 9-10000ft from a died stop going WOT in deep snow before I really gained speed but the sled built power I was getting about 42mph TS and holding around there. Twisted rg 09 HCR on 6lbs of boost and holding 12.5ish on the A/F and 81-8200rpm, to me it seems really low but was still pulling like a turbo. I know there have been times I have seen 47mph on my m1000 at the same elevation but he hcr will fly past the m1000. So just wondering what you guys are seeing. Remember this doesn't really mean much so don't over analyze it, just board and curious.
Other post.
POWDER POUNDER
I found the sme thing Track speed does not make sence sometimes. In 07 hade a m8 and m1000 both getting same track speed. m8 lighter should be going faster and higher. No m1000 was dominating both sleds riden by me. does not make sence??? I had a pump gas m8 that ran hard and only got 45mph track speed at times at 6000 ft. It destroyed stock sleds that said they were getting 50mph track speed.
COXY
Same thing here, 43 or so on my cpc pump gas at just under 6psi, 153 claw at 6-7000 feet with pretty heavy snow.
WYOBOY1000
Its almost comical, So I must be doing pretty decent at 9000+ft to be getting 42-43mph. I noticed last year my buddies BD pg M1000 was only pulling around 45-51mph on 5lbs and my piped m1000 was pulling 47mph and I was turning out about 70% of the way up and his pulled a wheelie over the top. Me riding both.
CATMAN 42
The way I measure track speed is on a steep climb with deep enough snow that I may not make it to the top. When the ground speed is down to about 10 mph I check the speed. I usually see at least 60.
06 M7 bored to 8 Garrett 2871
13lbs on avgas
162 powerclaw
6500'
WYO
Thats about How I checked it also. your basically running the same thing I am (m8 with a 2871) other than a 162, at that elevation and boost it seems to be on the same scale. My piped 07 m1000 at 6k would turn 55-60mph, stock challenger track.
If some of you that read this don't know what your turning would you look next time and post it.
MYNEWUSEDDOO
Excelent thread! I have been wondering the same from other turbo riders also.
7000 feet
9 psi boost
CPC stage 2
50/50 av/premium
2009 M8 162
powerclaw
gearing 57/63 (stock).....for now
8000 RPM
12.3-12.5 AFR
CPC secondary w/green spring set at 5
Primary, CPC gold spring and 80-90 gram turbo mags at 86 grams.
In a fresh, steep and deep climb 46-50 mph. Climbing the same grade in a harder packed snow I can see as high as 55-57 mph.
Thank you for the honesty from everybody. Before I bought the turbo I would always hear stuff like "a solid 60 mph in a deep climb", from guys running pump gas kits at lower boost than I am running. With seeing my track speeds in the deep snow climbs only hitting 46-50 mph and running higher boost than them had me thinking something might be wrong or my clutching was off.
I am lowering my gearing to 54/66 to hopefully gain a little more from the really deep heavy snow climbs and pick up the track speed into the mid 50's. I'd like to see 55 mph in a deep climb at 9 psi boost.
Or I could just turn the boost up I suppose
I will report back after I get to ride the new gear set and see the difference.(Mid February)
SSWIM
Great thread. Nice to hear "honest" track speeds. I check mine similar to the above posts. Steep pull, deep snow. Track speeds for my sleds.
Elevation-10k-13k'
OVS TM1200-3076\Fastlane tunnel-162 PC-Timbersled Suspension 13-15Lbs.Boost----85-90MPH
TAPEX-Midmount 2871\LCC tunnel-174CE-20-22 lbs boost----75-80MPH
OVS TM8-RG\153" 15-17 Lbs. Boost----55-60MPH
Almost all of our riding is above 11K'. It is amazing how elevation once you get over 10k' effects the sleds performance. Even with BIG turbos. It is exponential and at 13K, they really "suck". HAHAHA
These are average speeds. Sometimes a little higher, sometimes lower.
Sam
MATT159
2008 m8 153"
stock gearing
EGT's 1225-1275
08 Boondocker RG w/ large intercooler & fan
100% 100LL
Watching playback on helmet cam, I could see track speed well.
10.5psi at 10,000 feet 7800-7900rpm (I know.. not enough rpm)
Starts at 53-55mph & holds 45mph at side-hill/turn-out velocity.
Spun the boost-Tee to 12.5psi & hit it again 8100-8200rpm
Starts at 60-62mph & holds 50-52mph at side-hill/turn-out velocity.
The above hill is about 400 vertical feet (7-fools) & track speed was surprisingly consistent on multiple pulls.
Over at Sugarloaf at 10.5psi on snow that you can stay on top of (crusty), it starts at 80mph & pulls down to 70mph, but pulls right back to 80mph as you wheelie over the top.
TWSANDREW
All around 9-10k ft
Twisted RG M1k 174
13 - 18lbs. Mid 70s to low 90s. Was a full 10mph faster with the 162 PC track but the land speed is obviously faster in deep snow and slightly slower in hard pack with the CE 174.
Impulse Race Apex 174 with gobs of motor work and an HTA 3071
92-115mph 17 - 25 lbs
Not bragging just sayin...
CPATTS2000
twisted m1000 race gas
7-8 lbs 4-6k feet
Geared down 1 ratio for belt heat(dont really know if it helped much) and it holds a steady 65-70 mph in bottomless light snow,
09 dragon pgt 7-8lbs,
never saw over 55mph.
My 1000 absolutely stomps the 8 into the ground, not even comparable
MNTCAT800
09 M8 P/G pushing 7.5 lbs, around 9000 ft last weekend in moderately heavy powder was turning 43 to 48 constantly, hit 50 to 51 occaisionaly.
BOOSTED1
stock gearing for a M8 with a 162 is 74mph
I geared my CPC to 104mph works excellent
COMPOUND 1300
elevation 9000 (cooke city) 12 to 14 pounds of boost, 09 M-8 153 power claw, Cutler stage III burning 110 race fuel. track speed of 60 to 65 in dry pow, in wet heavy snow 50 to 55. i have found at times with a short track high track speed will work aginst you.
Reply With Quote
M8LOVIN
07 m8 stock 153 challenger. Twisted kit running 9.5# @ 6500' on 100ll. mellow hill in about 2.5' of pretty heavy powder i was seeing around 54-55 mph.
COXY
Did some playing today. Right on 6psi, tuned decent, new primary clutch due to spider rollers ****ting the bed, some rear suspension tweaks to work on the wheelie situation, was getting 48 most of the day, some spots 50. Pretty setup powder, but slow ground speed, letting it dig. Not sure what to attribute the mph gain, but I'm guessing a good working primary? Either way the sled was rippin today, sun was shining, and I was smiling!
BACKCOUNTRYISLIFE
looked this weekend, forgot to check before turning it up a bit, but..
11psi,
10,500-11,500 feet
3 gal AVgas 7-8 gal 91.
CF800 with 141PC
cutler stage II
I looked twice on small pulls in rather loose snow, first time down lower was 68 second time was 65 about 1000 feet higher. I didn't get a long look, so I may not be seeing some fluctuation, but two speeds that are pretty close I guess are worth reporting.
I'll have it as 13-14 psi next weekend, we'll see how that compares.
Keep in mind, it's a 141, I would HOPE I'd have way more track speed... I need it to keep up with a longer sled!
JEFF K
1 elevation 6-8000ft
2 lbs of boost 6lbs
3 what sled 09 M8 153
4 who's kit Cutler Stage 2
5 gearing 54/66
Speed around 55mph (deep heavy snow). For comparison, a stock 09 M1000 153 on the same hill was running 42mph track speed.
I lowered my gearing to 54/66 with a BDX diamond lite drive shortly after my turbo install last year and noticed a gain in track speed, as seen in the data above. I chose to lower the gearing for multiple reasons:
1. Lower gearing loads the engine more, which will help build boost. By lowering the geairng, the secondary is more sensitive to load which will make it shift out faster putting more load on the engine.
2. Lower gearing generally helps increase belt life
3. The M-Series sleds have always been geared too high IMO. If you ever see comparisons of the different sleds back to back, the M8 will lose the acceleration test every time, but always seems to win in top speed. For me, a mountain sled does not need to be geared to run 95mph+, unless I have the power to turn the track at 80mph in a climb.
4. The sled is WAY more fun to ride!
Clutches loose efficiency fast as they shift from a 1:1 ratio (belt has same diameter in both primary and secondary) into overdrive (belt has larger diameter in primary and smaller diameter in secondary) so the idea is to gear so that you are in the 1:1 range to ensure you are putting the maximum power to the track.
Here is a good book to read about clutching and gearing theory:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30484148/C...uning-Handbook
After reading the book, by my calculations the 1:1 ratio for 54/66 is 66mph, for 57/63 is 73mph and for 60/60 is 80mph (All assuming an M8 running 8000 rpm).
Clutching and gearing go hand in hand. Just changing the gearing on a sled may not always work out if the clutching is not setup to work with the new gears. By lowering the gearing, you need a quality secondary clutching setup. In my case, Cutler supplied their torsional conversion setup with the turbo kit which works fantastic.
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