Alpha vs twin rail

I don't ride the twin rail that much anymore but I would take the alpha any day. I don't think they are anymore precise. It is just a matter if you overdo it on the alpha and the turbo does magnify that. In some ways stockers are easier to ride because you can just keep them hammered where as the turbo can get you in trouble and it can get you out of trouble. I will take the alpha.
Do you have the latest and greatest tune? Does it fix it?
My alpha is all of a sudden losing rpm. Fell 600 on a pull. Was down to 7550 yesterday. Might have to change my belt otherwise I'm not sure. 700 miles and no rpm troubles except when I broke my primary spring.

turboless terry said:

I don't ride the twin rail that much anymore but I would take the alpha any day. I don't think they are anymore precise. It is just a matter if you overdo it on the alpha and the turbo does magnify that. In some ways stockers are easier to ride because you can just keep them hammered where as the turbo can get you in trouble and it can get you out of trouble. I will take the alpha.
Do you have the latest and greatest tune? Does it fix it?
My alpha is all of a sudden losing rpm. Fell 600 on a pull. Was down to 7550 yesterday. Might have to change my belt otherwise I'm not sure. 700 miles and no rpm troubles except when I broke my primary spring.

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...changes like you are experiencing...look for a change in clutching, ie, broken spring, binding or flattened rollers, helix getting flat spots, clutch weights binding, cracked spyder, etc....next would be low compression from piston scuffing or spark plug fowling or breakage...broken or out of adjustment power valve cables....first i would do is change clutch belt, easy stuff first....:face-icon-small-hap

twin over my alpha 100%. Alpha is fun but no where near as predictable as my twin. its fun on super deep days but that's it... great for the general public, Just not for my riding style will be working on a twin with the alpha track.

DDECKER said:

twin over my alpha 100%. Alpha is fun but no where near as predictable as my twin. its fun on super deep days but that's it... great for the general public, Just not for my riding style will be working on a twin with the alpha track.

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Couldn’t agree more. In a perfect world I’d have one of each and the alpha would see about 40% of the rides in blower days only.

So I was in the same boat as most of the guys posting on this thread a month ago. I was really frustrated with my alpha and disappointed with how it was working. However, I talked to a few guys and got my air shocks and suspension set up better. In addition, I listened to some advice on how I should be riding it. Not at all saying that you guys need it, but I definitely did. After making a few small changes to set up and my riding style, I dont think I would go back a twin rail anymore. I find my alpha to be the most predictable sled I've ever ridden. I just think that it is very responsive to rider input and if you aren't a step ahead of the game, it can get you. I would also agree that it works much better in fresh snow, but overall it's been great now! I plan on turboing my 19 next year just for the fun factor since the 20's didn't really change much.

zimmy44 said:

So I was in the same boat as most of the guys posting on this thread a month ago. I was really frustrated with my alpha and disappointed with how it was working. However, I talked to a few guys and got my air shocks and suspension set up better. In addition, I listened to some advice on how I should be riding it. Not at all saying that you guys need it, but I definitely did. After making a few small changes to set up and my riding style, I dont think I would go back a twin rail anymore. I find my alpha to be the most predictable sled I've ever ridden. I just think that it is very responsive to rider input and if you aren't a step ahead of the game, it can get you. I would also agree that it works much better in fresh snow, but overall it's been great now! I plan on turboing my 19 next year just for the fun factor since the 20's didn't really change much.

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Spill the beans bud.... You wrote a lot without really telling us anything.

I’m starting to trend with DDecker but I also want to give the Alpha more time because each ride I tweak somethings from settings to rider position. Then I change my mind again. The hardest thing for me is the track is so bad a$$ I don’t want to give it up. So I want to try hard to make the alpha work.

Here is my observations:

1. You do have to ride more forward when it gets technical. For a taller rider that can be awkward. Because you get in body positions that are harder to react to. Lowering the riser is not always the easiest for a tall rider. So I’m going to try getting the bars forward. I’m going to start with a 2” inch Rox riser on the bottom of the riser. Start there to see if that gets me enough space. The next option is a post forward kit but I just prefer the vert steering swing so don’t want to go there.

2. Shock settings are super critical and probably should be changed with changing snow conditions, especially in the skid. Last ride I found I maybe running to much pressure in my rear shock. I always leave my settings on 2. I was trenching out in spots I didn’t think I should be. After a stuck I thought what the heck, turned the rear shock to 1 and it made a big difference. I’m 220 without gear and running 145 in the rear shock. I’m going to drop that to 135 for the next ride and see if that works on setting 2. Maybe I’m wrong on this but I’m nervous running the rear shocks on postion 1 with the alpha rail. Seems like some of the damage to the rail was from bottoming out. Setting shocks is a “science” I just don’t fully understand yet so if you have found something that works, post it up. I did find when I put the shock in position 1 I had to be a lot more forward in climbs.

See if a few small changes can help. Right now I do think a twin rail is better when things get super technical and the traction/bit isn’t as good in harder snow. But damn the Alpha is a fun sled to ride.

Chewy22 said:

Spill the beans bud.... You wrote a lot without really telling us anything.

I’m starting to trend with DDecker but I also want to give the Alpha more time because each ride I tweak somethings from settings to rider position. Then I change my mind again. The hardest thing for me is the track is so bad a$$ I don’t want to give it up. So I want to try hard to make the alpha work.

Here is my observations:

1. You do have to ride more forward when it gets technical. For a taller rider that can be awkward. Because you get in body positions that are harder to react to. Lowering the riser is not always the easiest for a tall rider. So I’m going to try getting the bars forward. I’m going to start with a 2” inch Rox riser on the bottom of the riser. Start there to see if that gets me enough space. The next option is a post forward kit but I just prefer the vert steering swing so don’t want to go there.

2. Shock settings are super critical and probably should be changed with changing snow conditions, especially in the skid. Last ride I found I maybe running to much pressure in my rear shock. I always leave my settings on 2. I was trenching out in spots I didn’t think I should be. After a stuck I thought what the heck, turned the rear shock to 1 and it made a big difference. I’m 220 without gear and running 145 in the rear shock. I’m going to drop that to 135 for the next ride and see if that works on setting 2. Maybe I’m wrong on this but I’m nervous running the rear shocks on postion 1 with the alpha rail. Seems like some of the damage to the rail was from bottoming out. Setting shocks is a “science” I just don’t fully understand yet so if you have found something that works, post it up. I did find when I put the shock in position 1 I had to be a lot more forward in climbs.

See if a few small changes can help. Right now I do think a twin rail is better when things get super technical and the traction/bit isn’t as good in harder snow. But damn the Alpha is a fun sled to ride.

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Your observations are about spot on with mine.

The first thing I'd say is to definitely ride far more forward than in the past. If you are too far back, the track is searching for traction and will want to cut uphill. I actually find I can ride most sidehills in a neutral position and then jump to wrong foot forward when I need too. I was contantly shooting up hill before I adjusted my riding style. I also actually lowered my stock bars 2 inches, however I am only 5'7. It's great in the tight trees but is a little short for everything else.

Shock settings are crucial as you stated. I'm probably about 190-200 geared up. I always ride with setting 2. I tried running on the lock out setting in some real technical stuff and I felt it made me trench really bad. The sled actually would climb better when it was wheelied up than when I was locked out. As far as shock pressures, I run between 60-70 in the skis. The front track shock I am running 70 and running 135 in the rear track shock. I still wheelie a little more with my 154 than I'd like but it sure is fun!

I also use the break a lot when I ride now. This has helped me control the sled immensely, but a lot of guys already do this. Nothing I've shared is really new. I think for me the big thing was doing the things listed above and just riding it harder. I spent the first half of winter wishing I was back on a twin rail. Now I'm doing this on my alpha that I don't think I could do on a twin rail. Hope this helps!

turboless terry said:

My alpha is all of a sudden losing rpm. Fell 600 on a pull. Was down to 7550 yesterday. Might have to change my belt otherwise I'm not sure. 700 miles and no rpm troubles except when I broke my primary spring.

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Does this rpm loss come when you hit a rut, or old track or slick spot where the track loads/unloads or ouloads then loads? I’ve seen this on a few sleds now and a stiffer primary spring was the fix, it’s like the clutches up shift slightly too fast when unloading then when your loading the track back up it’s in to “high of gear” for a few seconds

after 500 miles on mine. i'm disappointed with a couple things.

1. it trenches far worse than expected. I've tried everything shock wise this season trying to combat it. lowering fts to 40# helped it a ton...but its still worse than a poo in this dept.

2. i bought too short of sled. these 154's feel like 141's when you get in deep snow and sidehills. I normally wouldn't say something like this but i got 3 friends who are claiming the same thing. I'm a bigger guy so i think i shoulda went 165 simply because of my weight alone. lesson learned.

3. i've flipped this sled over on myself like 10 times this year, lol. i've never done that with any other sled i've ever owned. so its kinda fun...but its not. When i needed to go up....front end would lift, sled would trench and boom....on my ass.

it does climb out of stucks better than any other sled tho, its does deep powder flat ground awesome...funner than any other sled i've ridden. no complaints except when i'm on a hill and trying to make some small technical move and boom...washes out or trenches. maybe its me and i need more learning...very possible because i'm not an expert. But i could get on my 18' MC 154 and do the same line without washing out and flipping over.

Wish you were closer. I would make you a trade. I would like to try a 154. I have flipped my 165 over backwards once.

turboless terry said:

Wish you were closer. I would make you a trade. I would like to try a 154. I have flipped my 165 over backwards once.

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i'm seriously thinking about doing a post on facebook looking for someone wanting to trade 154 for a 165 setup and doing a swap.

I would do it if we could work out logistics.

turboless terry said:

I would do it if we could work out logistics.

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my buddy's big rig is headed to cooke city end of march....and i think afton wy mid march. you gonna be near either of those places? i can put the skid/track on his rig (he does snowmobile destination trips).

How much longer is the 165 tunnel? Assuming I would need to cut tunnel. Let me check into that. I am only 150 miles from Cooke city

Just got back from a really good ride. Snow conditions were about as good as it gets. Lots of fresh pow, over the windshield, but a really nice dense snow layer. It was somewhere between power robbing snow, and really good traction snow (?). It felt like the first time I could really open up the 154” alpha on some long steep pulls out of the trees.

This was my first ride that I was very intentional about moving as far forward as possible when sidehilling and wrong foot forward, in addition to diligently staying off WOT while in a sidehill. My results were as follows:

This made a huge difference. My rate of successfull Uber steep sidehilling in the trees skyrocketed, and I’m pretty sure I didn’t have a single washout all day. This changes everything for the alpha. You must truly learn to ride it in a different way to fully appreciate its abilities. I rode with a group of 3-axys sleds and a pro. Pretty possative the alpha out sidehill’d and maneuvered the whole group. FYI another axis guy rode it, came back with grins and is going to sno check one instead of a 2020 850 Poo. He said he likened it to changing from a rev to an axys. After a lot of hours on the alpha, I stepped onto an axys for a bit. I’ll give it to Poo, the axys is very smooth and predictable in a traditional mountain sled kind of way. However, (like its owner claimed) it can’t touch the alpha in nimbleness. Also, the power and traction just wasn’t there. The axys owner commented “that alpha is one nimble bastard”.

Is anyone successfully adjusting rear skid pressure to get the nose down on the 154 while climbing steep and straight? This isn’t a huge issue for me currently based upon my aggressive riding style and the snow conditions this year, but I could see that I may want a change in the future. I’m finding currently that if I move all the way forward, and learn more about the characteristics of what the sled is going to do while climbing steep (how much input it needs to move right or left), my successful crazy steep climbs are increasing without trenching out.

I have a question about braking. I’ve never done it boondocking, I generally just walk the throttle a lot. Can someone explain this to me as to why it’s needed? The ctec2 motor really dives off the RPMs super fast when you let off the gas, almost like hitting the brakes, therefore I think I’m negating the use of the brake because I’m on and off the throttle so much.

Shock pressure's have help a little bit but riding more forward on the sled has helped a ton! One of the locals I ride with in Colorado has an alpha and told me to ride it more aggressive/ attack stance. That advice added with lots and lots of throttle control and breaking in technical riding has helped a lot for me! I absolutely love this sled and have a hard time going back to twin rails and enjoying it nearly as much!

Suzzy-Q said:

Does this rpm loss come when you hit a rut, or old track or slick spot where the track loads/unloads or ouloads then loads? I’ve seen this on a few sleds now and a stiffer primary spring was the fix, it’s like the clutches up shift slightly too fast when unloading then when your loading the track back up it’s in to “high of gear” for a few seconds

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You could be right. They were all over the map for a minute and settled in at 7550. Only pulled 7900 on the upper end. It was always 8150. There was firm patches and soft spots all over the hill. I am wondering if I have a bad helix like a few have said. I also have s touch of a bog when you whack the throttle. I think something is binding.