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Which Gas for a Boosted Sled?

christopher

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So, whats "THE GAS" to use as you move into high boost ranges???

Up till now I have been running various blends of "Pump grade 91 + VP110". Was running 50% at low elevations and 20% at high elevations. I have been told I should be looking at 50% once I cross over 10psi of boost in a stock engine.

But now as I am taking the next step in increasing the boost on my supercharger I am wondering which is the best fuel to use to make sure my engine lasts?


VP-110
440933

Not your "standard" 110! Highest rated MON of any 110 fuel on the market. Formulated for use in all naturally aspirated engines with CRs up to approximately 12:1-13:1, as well as applications with turbo- or superchargers with boost pressures up to 7-10 psi. Compared to other 110 octane fuels, VP110 burns cleaner and provides greater detonation protection. Good lower cost alternative.


C12
de7a83e1-e652-4e62-9e23-1084d7d5c082.jpg

The best all around racing fuel made for power and consistency. Compared to 110 octane fuels, C12 provides significant performance gains in applications above 6500 RPMs in terms of power, torque and detonation protection. Burns cleaner and vaporizes better than fuels with comparable MONs, yielding lower engine operating temperatures. Recommended for naturally aspirated engines with CRs below 15:1 and turbo- or supercharged applications with boost pressures up to 7-12 psi.


MOTORSPORT 109
VP_Motorsport_10_50cb24ea37dcd.jpg

In engines that can run on pump gas, MS109 is a direct replacement that produces more power than any other unleaded fuel - up to 5% more than premium unleaded. Recommended for applications with up to 25 lbs of boost and naturally aspirated engines with CRs up to 15:1. Compared to other unleaded fuels, MS109 offers better detonation protection as well.
 
S

stingray719

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Tried lots of diff blends of race gas in my old 280 hp Nytro (supercharged). Then one day I was at Grand Mesa lodge here in Colorado and they mix non ethanol premium with av gas and I tried that. Hard as it is to believe it had a noticable improvement over 110 race gas and pump premium.

Thought it might have been a fluke so tried the same with my turbo Phazer and it too had a noticable improvement. Altitude? (over 10k) Moisture? Maybe I just know that fuel realy made my boosted sleds rock.....your mileage may vary :face-icon-small-hap
 

christopher

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Then one day I was at Grand Mesa lodge here in Colorado and they mix non ethanol premium with av gas and I tried that. Hard as it is to believe it had a noticeable improvement over 110 race gas and pump premium.
Hmmmm
So normal AvGas is "100LL"
100 Octane, Low Lead.

Whats interesting about Aviation Fuel is that it carries a DUAL Octane rating that most non-pilots are unaware of. I wonder if this is playing a role??

100LL is properly called 100/130
As it is 100 Octane LEAN and 130 Octane RICH.

For example, 100/130 avgas has an octane rating of 100 at the lean settings usually used for cruising and 130 at the rich settings used for take-off and other full-power conditions
 
M
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If you are going to crank up the boost just do yourself a favour and build a pump gas motor, the whole race gas thing loses its appeal pretty quickly particularly when you are on the road.

M5
 

christopher

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Next summer I will pull the motor and do some work on it to get it ready for a Stage 2 compressor. For now I just want to be safe at 10-12lbs of boost.
 

up-high

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Whats stock compression ratio on the Nytro? Whats the comp at 12 lbs? What elevation will you normally run? Ran 100ll/91 50/50 in my Apex(310) sometimes below 3000'. Had low comp pistons though on one and head shim on the other. Thought the low comp had better response. M5 is right if you travel a lot. PITA!! finding fuel. Run 100ll this year and pay attention to elevation. Do low comp or head shim next year.
 

gunnerthesnowman

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Tried lots of diff blends of race gas in my old 280 hp Nytro (supercharged). Then one day I was at Grand Mesa lodge here in Colorado and they mix non ethanol premium with av gas and I tried that. Hard as it is to believe it had a noticable improvement over 110 race gas and pump premium.

Thought it might have been a fluke so tried the same with my turbo Phazer and it too had a noticable improvement. Altitude? (over 10k) Moisture? Maybe I just know that fuel realy made my boosted sleds rock.....your mileage may vary :face-icon-small-hap

Ya , to much octane for the compression your running is not good , you will loose throttle response
 

gunnerthesnowman

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If you are going to crank up the boost just do yourself a favour and build a pump gas motor, the whole race gas thing loses its appeal pretty quickly particularly when you are on the road.

M5

I think guys are more concerned with throttle response then over all big power , you can only use so much , four years ago I was told I was crazy building my apex with stock compression , now everyone is doing it on there low boost kit " throttle response " , was at Neil,s and TJ,s ( Boost-It) looked at there boost-it viper ( very nice ) sock motor , stock compression , I think Neil said 8-10lbs on pump gas .
But if you want the best in both worlds ( throttle response and big boost ) Octane on its own will only get you so far , just look back at Ironmike trying to run stock compression and big boost on c-16 , how many motors did Alpine put in that sled.
 
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av8er

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100/130 is wrong

Back in WWII all Avgas used to be 130 octane period.
then later with a change in engine technology. they changed 130 to 100LL, 100LL (avgas) has a MON rating of 105. But alot of older aircraft will be labeled 130/100LL. If you really want to crank up your boost C12 is the best, then Vp110, then 100LL, and on Down .
 

christopher

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For the moment.
That will change just as soon as I get around to removing the ECU and shipping it back to MPI.

But I will admit, I am none to excited about removing the front steering column to do that right now.
 

irondave86

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For the moment.
That will change just as soon as I get around to removing the ECU and shipping it back to MPI.

But I will admit, I am none to excited about removing the front steering column to do that right now.

I have the timing mod and stock motor. I ran 15-16 psi all last year on straight race (Trick 108) @ 3-7000 feet. I would think you would be fine with 50-50 blend at 10-12 psi as long as your motor has proper fueling and cooling.

I removed the bolt that holds the s/c oil filter in place and my girlfriend was able to reach down, disconnect and remove the ecu. I was able to put it back in. Just a thought.
 

christopher

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I removed the bolt that holds the s/c oil filter in place and my girlfriend was able to reach down, disconnect and remove the ecu. I was able to put it back in. Just a thought.
Thats brilliant!
I tried and there was NO WAY my big fat hands could get down in there, so I was looking at having to remove the dang steering column again and just did NOT want to do that.

Let me see if I can get my daughter to squeeze her little hands in there!
 

akMcat

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Hmmmm
So normal AvGas is "100LL"
100 Octane, Low Lead.

Whats interesting about Aviation Fuel is that it carries a DUAL Octane rating that most non-pilots are unaware of. I wonder if this is playing a role??

100LL is properly called 100/130
As it is 100 Octane LEAN and 130 Octane RICH.

For example, 100/130 avgas has an octane rating of 100 at the lean settings usually used for cruising and 130 at the rich settings used for take-off and other full-power conditions

This peaked my interest here is a link to the ASTM D910 standard which sets the minimum standard for aviation gasoline http://www.aviation-fuel.com/pdfs/avgas100llspecsastmd910_2011.pdf

I was unable to find a source to read about the actual Test method D2700 for determining the MON of fuels. So I'm not sure at what AFR the lean and rich ratings were attained. It did specify a .11 fuel to air ratio was used for the rich rating which is about 9:1 AFR, richer than most engines run. Some good information to confuse everyone :face-icon-small-con
 
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