Avalanche Fatalities
- Thread starter Mort2112
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Well I would say pretty much everyday we ride terrain that COULD slide. Its an inherent part of this deal. I go to the mountains to ride deep snow and mountains.... takes a couple things for a slide, and those are it. Part of that is managing that risk by reading the report, choosing the right day for the right terrain, going one at a time, and making sure we have communication/visuals if there is any question. Slides happen on low danger days when they aren’t suppose to. Yes they are avoidable. But you would litterally have to stay on a slope under what? 25 degrees? EVERY single day. And be ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE you are never in a slide path in order to be absolutely certain you’re never gonna get buried. Thats not me. I ride steep terrain, and I ride in run out zones, on the trail alot more than I realize too I bet. I also do my best to make good decisions in order to manage that risk that IS there.
Every avy does involve someone focking up, you’re absolutely right. I fock up sometimes, and theres a chance that someone else in your group, OR someone else group can and/or WILL someday. Thats why I wear the gear I guess. Not because I’m scared, or that I ride like some out of control azzhat looking for trouble, its because I ride places where the risk of a slide is real and the risk of SOMEONE focking up is real. Agree to disagree. I KNOW I won’t ever change your mind, just hope these posts could make a difference for someone else.
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Here's a little more info:
https://www.ksl.com/article/4647866...w-layton-man-got-caught-up-in-idaho-avalanche
Toward the end of the day, he and three friends split off from the group.“The four of them had gone down into a ravine, and really the only way out was up,” said Spencer. “Tommy went up and triggered the avalanche.”
Hawkins was buried under 5 feet of snow. His friends were also buried, but not as deep. By the time they got to him, it was too late. Family members say Hawkins' avalanche gear deployed but he was not able to get out from under the slide.
This is just sad all around. Young family too.
https://www.ksl.com/article/4647866...w-layton-man-got-caught-up-in-idaho-avalanche
Toward the end of the day, he and three friends split off from the group.“The four of them had gone down into a ravine, and really the only way out was up,” said Spencer. “Tommy went up and triggered the avalanche.”
Hawkins was buried under 5 feet of snow. His friends were also buried, but not as deep. By the time they got to him, it was too late. Family members say Hawkins' avalanche gear deployed but he was not able to get out from under the slide.
This is just sad all around. Young family too.
Perfect case, beacons and he even deployed his airbag but the fact was, they rode into a place where they should not have. They clearly felt they had the gear to mitigate the risk. One of them was dead wrong. When I can't talk people out of going the wrong places on the wrong days, I don't follow them. Too many sledders seem to get caught up in the challenges without thinking through the consequences.
All the gear in the world, the vaunted avy backpack, trained, beacon and shovels in the packs. NONE of that helped the day they picked the wrong ravine, none of it.
I also hope my posts reach people. I think most are much too complacent with gear and training and this was another example of the guys it shouldn't have happened to... but it did.
All the gear in the world, the vaunted avy backpack, trained, beacon and shovels in the packs. NONE of that helped the day they picked the wrong ravine, none of it.
I also hope my posts reach people. I think most are much too complacent with gear and training and this was another example of the guys it shouldn't have happened to... but it did.
Did you even read my post? I didnt say having proper avalanche gear will guarantee safety. Far from it. But it certainly gives me a better chance if something happens. And at least I will be able to help someone else if it happens to them. What are you doing with a 40-60 pound bag on your back? Jesus man, Are you strapping a feed bag back there? , carrying 5 gallons of fuel in it as well? I couldn't ride 5 miles down the trail if I had that much on my back.
The bca mntpro vest with cylinder weighs 8.8lbs. A pretty far cry from your 60lbs. Lose a little belly weight like we all probably should and you can easily carry one around if u so choose. If you aren't willing to the wear the gear - beacon, probe, and shovel- and know how to use them. You dont ride in our groups. I'll never understand your argument for not wearing them. If not for yourself, for your buddies sake
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Big10... I could not disagree with you more on not needing Avy equipment! I do agree with you that making good decisions and not getting caught in the first place is most important. For the sake of a few hundred dollars on equipment plus a few more on good Avalanche training to know how to use it, if needed it is a good investment which might just save your life. When its you buried and sucking for every possible breath while waiting for your buddies to come and save you anything that can increase the odds of survival is SO worth it in my opinion. With your thought process we should just hire "good pilots" and get rid of radar, GPS, and all the other Aviation safety equipment because maybe it just gives pilots a "false sense of security"...
He is quick to point out the cases where avy gear didn't help but not where it did, in a post above the number of extricated was 301 and 139 of those people survived, it doesnt say whether they had beacons or not but if they didnt I would venture to say that number would be alot higher. If it was 10 min or less the numbers where 124 extricated 111 survived.
Y
Does your vehicle have airbags, anti lock brakes, traction control, defroster, windshield wipers or seat belts?
Because you can save a little money by not having these extravagances, if you just drive when the conditions do not require them.
Because you can save a little money by not having these extravagances, if you just drive when the conditions do not require them.
S
no substitute for using good judgement when driving your rig.....but if you get in a wreck, no substitute for seat belts and bags...:face-icon-small-hap
My Dad said the Monday morning quarterback is always all pro. Not hard to figure out what should have been done. The families are in our prayers. Let's all be safe out there.
Fair Winds and Flowing Seas Young Man...
I used to ride dirt bikes with Tommy when he was a teenager. I had recently moved to Teton Valley in mid 90's, and was excited to get back on a dirt bike. He was a great kid, a smart, strong local country boy with some mad skills and he and his friends took me out in the Big Holes and showed me what's what. We used to drag race out in the meadow for fun too. Tommy was smart, witty and friendly, and well respected by his peers. And a tremendous athlete.
One time, I sat astounded as Tommy threw a stone at a grouse as it walked through the bushes up on the powerline out of Pole Canyon during a rest stop from doing wheelies up a hill. He hit it, killed it, stuffed it under his jersey, took it home and ate it. The kind of kids I got back onto dirt bikes with after a long hiatus.
Back then, before all the land grabs, we rode Fogg Hill together on the bikes.
I am very sad to learn this name released a few days ago.
Fair winds and flowing seas, Tommy.
Your friend,
Stovey
______________
I used to ride dirt bikes with Tommy when he was a teenager. I had recently moved to Teton Valley in mid 90's, and was excited to get back on a dirt bike. He was a great kid, a smart, strong local country boy with some mad skills and he and his friends took me out in the Big Holes and showed me what's what. We used to drag race out in the meadow for fun too. Tommy was smart, witty and friendly, and well respected by his peers. And a tremendous athlete.
One time, I sat astounded as Tommy threw a stone at a grouse as it walked through the bushes up on the powerline out of Pole Canyon during a rest stop from doing wheelies up a hill. He hit it, killed it, stuffed it under his jersey, took it home and ate it. The kind of kids I got back onto dirt bikes with after a long hiatus.
Back then, before all the land grabs, we rode Fogg Hill together on the bikes.
I am very sad to learn this name released a few days ago.
Fair winds and flowing seas, Tommy.
Your friend,
Stovey
______________
Some of us learned to drive before all that crap was forced on consumers by the government on the name of safety. My race cars never had airbags, anti lock brakes, or traction control. Still do not need ANY of that crap on my vehicles and I feel sorry for you that you feel those things should be standard or required.
Buy yeah, great example LOL
It's a foregone conclusion: if you're involved in an avalanche, poor decisions have been made. I've been around (not in) several on skis, and when we debriefed afterwards it was easy to point to the poor decisions--almost always going back to poor communication and "not wanting to be the buzzkill." Counting on yourself or others to never make bad decisions is probably a bad decision. There's a report on here about a slide in Island Park last year that started thousands of feet above the group and ran down into the flat trees they were playing in. If you want to be truly safe you'd ride only in Minnesota or stay on the couch. It is almost impossible to ride in the mountains and not expose yourself to some avalanche danger. Take a real look at the terrain above your groomed access road...
As much as it would suck to die in an avalanche, I think having to look a buddy's wife or husband or kids in the eye and tell them that Search and Rescue recovered his body 15" under the snow but I didn't have a beacon or a shovel and couldn't find him would be far worse.
As much as it would suck to die in an avalanche, I think having to look a buddy's wife or husband or kids in the eye and tell them that Search and Rescue recovered his body 15" under the snow but I didn't have a beacon or a shovel and couldn't find him would be far worse.
K
I hate to break it to you but you are the only one who feels this way about safety equipment. Awareness is key but your really in good conscious going to advocate for people to not use it? this is the second post where you have voiced this opinion?? I get it it can be avoided, best way to stay out of a fist fight is not start one but this is just foolish.
Beacons work.
Shovels work.
Probes work.
Medical gear works.
Avalanche bags have never once in all the course I have taken been advertised as our first line of defense. Awareness and the items above have. If your riding with guys that have 60 Lb packs?? they dont know how to pack.
If im wrong then dude you need to start an avy clinic because the perfect back country expert exists that knows for certain that he can never get into trouble. You need to share that knowledge.
I just got a real eye opener. Got on a slope that I wouldn't have played on. Came out of the trees in the wrong spot, in a whiteout, and things looked wrong. Thought I needed to drop down a little. Actually needed to go up. Got my buddy turned around but I was committed. Had to play the cards I was dealt and I had a bad hand. Huge avalanche went 20 feet away from me as I was going to drop down. One chunk was bigger than a car and 6 or 8 feet thick. It went through both my plan a and plan b. I dug my sled in so it would sit there and got the hell out of there. Poor set of legs that won't take you away from an azz kicking. Left the sled on the mountain. I just got lucky the chunk above me didn't go. Went up with ropes and got it off the mountain 3 days later. I have all the gear but this one had to much trash and rocks involved. Would have had to been lucky to not get wrapped around a tree. I guess you would boil this down to awareness or bad decisions. Know where you are at all times. Thought I did but went the wrong way. I knew where I was but it was to late by the time I realized it. So then I guess you would boil it down to not riding in a white out. My buddy even said he kinda got vertigo. He thought he was moving and was just sitting there. He knew the hill went and luckily got ahold of me on the radio before he jumped off the hill to search for me. This was a bad deal that turned out fine but they don't always go that way. This was one of the things that can't be taught at an avy course. Really fortunate.
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It's too bad you had to leave your sled, but thank god you and your buddy are alright! It could have been sooo much worse as you well know
R
And another one, so sad: Crews searching for southern Utah snowmobiler lost in avalan
Crews searching for southern Utah snowmobiler lost in avalanche
https://www.ksl.com/article/46486109/crews-searching-for-southern-utah-snowmobiler-lost-in-avalanche
Crews searching for southern Utah snowmobiler lost in avalanche
https://www.ksl.com/article/46486109/crews-searching-for-southern-utah-snowmobiler-lost-in-avalanche
L
Read the article too. SAR couldn't go in last night, and he also didn't have a beacon.
Sounds like they were not riding the hill that slid, just sitting in the runout zone. 1 partially buried, one fully. The fully buried guy was just 1-2ft deep. Bet it would have been a much different outcome with basic gear. Very sad.
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