Presidential Candidates-2008--Who Supports Us?

ruffryder · Feb 3, 2008

Bagger said:
This train of thought is just what scares me. Talking heads that MIS-quote BAD science, voters that listen to the talking heads and take it as gospel, officials elected by those voters that know even less than anyone else in this sorry mess making LAWS that shape the future of the world.

Boy, nothing to go wrong there.

It saddens me more than scares me with what I said. The US society is very reactionary, in that things get done only after a crisis, when they should have been done before (proaction) with much less cost and disturbance to people. I would think that most would agree with that statement.

So if we need to light a fire to get anything done, climate change is currently that fire and is a tool used to make changes toward a more sustainable method of energy production and utilization.

Bagger said:
I think we'd be much better off to develop clean energy based on the merits of having clean energy, not because of the unsubstanciated threats of the Global Warmers. B

Absolutely, I don't argue with that at all, just I don't think that is as likely as a method of change as compared to the fire method above.

It has been shown historically that the government is terrible at choosing technologies for the future. Most of the time they fail. The best method is to negatively impact the methods financially (increase costs) to make alternatives cheaper. Americans are great at finding ways to make/save money. It is a large driver for most of us, lets exploit this fact.

ruffryder · Feb 3, 2008

XC700116 said:
As for the electrical demand will always be met statement. Tell that to the people in southern CA that had to endure the rolling brownouts this last summer.

The blackouts weren't really due to a lack of supply, maybe lack of local supply, but it is like that for most large urban areas. The problem was due to the loss of a transmission line occurring during summer peak conditions and a loss of a transformer on another transmission line in Oregon. So I guess you caught me on a technicality. You are right in that supply will never always equal demand (contingencies and such). I should have stated that in normal operating conditions (no contingencies in effect) supply will always equal demand. The planning that CISO and WECC do and that PG&E does, plans for single contingencies during peak times out to the next 10 years. The electrical utilities are getting heavily regulated in this regard from FERC and NERC.

When the fuse on the XFMR at the pole near my house goes, yes I loose supply, but it is a transmisison problem not a supply problem.

BTW, there is always supposed to extra generation that is online equal to your largest generator in the system, so there is never a supply problem, but transmission problems will occur if other lines are taken out of service.

XC700116 said:
Not too far from where you live there is a VERY large Nuclear plant nearly completed and then never fueled that was mothballed due to Greenies going bonkers and spouting half truths and lies about the "dangers" of nuclear power. Millions of dollars thrown out the window due to the misguided agenda of environmentalists.

Are you talking in Washington? Or in Illinois? I know one got closed down in Illinois, but it was shut down for internal reasons, not political, even if that is what you heard.

weetee · Feb 3, 2008

What? You think we need to lie to the people to change energy sources? I think the threat of foreign oil dependancy, comming from a very unstable region, and funding our enemies is plenty of incentive for change. (Drill in ANWR)

XC700116 · Feb 3, 2008

ruffryder said:
I know where the origin came from, but its meaning in popular culture has changed. I guess you take offense to all those "you might be a redneck jokes...." too? .

No I don't because of the context of Jest.

Your context is of ignorance.

XC700116 · Feb 3, 2008

ruffryder said:
Are you talking in Washington? Or in Illinois? I know one got closed down in Illinois, but it was shut down for internal reasons, not political, even if that is what you heard.

WA. A company I used to work for was looking for a large building with rail service and large overhead cranes and stubled upon it. It's an awesome facility that unfortunately never utilized.

XC700116 · Feb 3, 2008

Ruff,

Here's a link to a short description of the plant.

It looks like more than "public opinion" was involved. like mismangement of funds. Imagine that

at least now they are starting to use the 1600 acre site for business develoopment.

That's better than what they'd do if it was in MN.

In the town where I went to HS, there's a bunch of old Iron Ore mine pits turned lakes. The surrounding areas a littlered with Iron Ore tailings and are not of much use other than ATV riding and High School Keg parties. The local Govt and Tree huggers shut the areas and trails down to all motorized traffic, dumped hundreds of thousands of TAX PAYERS' money into paving the trails for Biking, roller blading, and walking without any notification or question to the local public for input. It doesn't bring any revenue and eliminated yet another riding area that did. They could have went the route of simply grading a parking area or two and providing the same restroom facilities and maybe a wash area for your wheeler and had something that would attract tourism and revenue. They could have also included some non-motorized paved trails for the walkers and bikers and had the best of both and an ongoing source to pay for maintenance.

Bagger · Feb 3, 2008

ruffryder said:
I know where the origin came from, but its meaning in popular culture has changed. I guess you take offense to all those "you might be a redneck jokes...." too?

Ruf,
Apperantly in your culture it has. Not in his or mine.

What XC's trying to tell you is that YOUR use of redneck is what offends him.
It's like the stories that say "Hunters killed five elk in a no hunting area", NO, POACHERS DID.

SO XC is telling you that a bunch of Rednecks didn't shoot up the signs, a bunch of *ssholes did.

It's a deliniation that would be good to note. For example in the thread about riding out of bounds, we can deliniate between "a bunch of Snowmobilers rode into the wilderness" and "a bunch of tresspassers who just happened to be riding snowmobiles, rode into the wilderness".

Unfortunatly too many people don't look at the differance. Including the azzhats that were riding the sleds/shooting the signs. People just lump me in with the tresspassers because I ride a sled. Just like you lumped Rednecks in with the azzhats that shot the signs.

To bring it a little closer to home it's kinda' like 509er's getting bent at Seattle Voters because of all the misplaced ballots that get found just in the nick of time, instead of being mad at Election Officials.

Your a smart guy, I'll bet if you think about this you'll see his/our point.

Bagger

xrated · Feb 4, 2008

[Many words in the US language have changed meaning, when people use these words they are speaking using the new meaning, not the old meaning.[/QUOTE]

Ruff, so would you tell that to a brother then after some white boy fromt he burbs dropped the N word?

XC you don't have to blame tree huggers for all the biking paths on the range...just thank Congressman James Oberstar! Hell thank him for the 35 bridge collapse. He wanted to raise the gas tax afterwords, neve rmind that he sent funds for transportaion so that there would be bike racks at the Duluth and Hibbing airports, or any other airport! On a plus side, word is that they are adding a couple thousand acres to the Gilbert Off Road park, almost entirely for single track!!!

XC700116 · Feb 4, 2008

xrated said:
XC you don't have to blame tree huggers for all the biking paths on the range...just thank Congressman James Oberstar! Hell thank him for the 35 bridge collapse. He wanted to raise the gas tax afterwords, neve rmind that he sent funds for transportaion so that there would be bike racks at the Duluth and Hibbing airports, or any other airport! On a plus side, word is that they are adding a couple thousand acres to the Gilbert Off Road park, almost entirely for single track!!!

Him and Kris Hasskamp the local area state Rep.

XC700116 · Feb 4, 2008

xrated;231362On a plus side said:
It's about time they looked at it from a realistic perspective.

xrated · Feb 5, 2008

so what does everyone thing of Hilarys plan to garnish wages in order to pay for insurance?

XC700116 · Feb 5, 2008

Clinton Wage Garnishments

Well for one my company already does it and I have insurance weather I want it or not. So I'm not so certain it's a bad idea but it is a VERY LARGE infringement of personal choice and constitutional rights.

However it's better than having people that can truely afford it skipping on healthcare bills. It's a touchy situation.

The whole idea of universal healthcare is misguided. It gives everbody a warm fuzzy feeling to say everyone in our country has healthcare coverage. When in reality it will not change what's going on now for the better, it just puts a different label on the uninsured, increases the tax burden of those that currently are insured, and degrades the quality of healthcare available to the middle class. Those that live below the poverty level would not recieve anything more than a pass that says they are no longer responsible for paying the bills they didn't pay in the first place. The rich upper class will still be able to get whatever they want for healthcare services. The middle class will not be able to afford "private coverage" for the special services that the upper class have due to the money they now pay for coverage being used to pay the taxes to provide "healthcare coverage" for those that don't work or don't work at their potential (the 30 yr old pot head that thinks working in a bookstore for minimum wage is OK and that the government should take care of him).

Also I think it could lead to a lot of bankruptcy. Too many people, especially young people, are streachted to their financial limits and forcing them to purchase health insurance might put them over, especially those that don't require much on the lines of healthcare. ( young adults in good health). That's no excuse but it's reality.

The other issue is how do they determine "who can afford it". I once heard Al Gore say that anyone making over 35,000 a year was rich and should be taxed at a higher rate. I know I couldn't even pay my house payment on that and still put food in the fridge. This just shows how out of touch with reality these people are.

Bagger · Feb 5, 2008

X,
I work hard for a living, and I pay my bills before I play. I think that should answer your question as far as I'm concerned.

:beer;

XC,
I agree, excellent points. Anyone that thinks this is going to make things better is terribly misguided. *

Someone on here made the statement that all of us voting to lower taxes were to blame for how messed up things were. (reading that made my head hurt by the way) So if that person isn't as out to lunch as I'm thinking he is**

, and he's actually right, then the PTB STEALING from me to pay health care for the pothead spending his days in the book store should fix every damn thing wrong with America!

WoooHoooo! Bagger

*Disclaimer (The term terribly misguided is not meant to hurt or slander the person to whom it referances, and this opinion is that of the typer and not management)
** Disclaimer (The term out to lunch is in no way intended to slander or indicate that the person referanced to as "out to lunch" is indeed an idiot, and this opinion is also that of the typer and not management.)

XC700116 · Feb 5, 2008

Bagger - Disclaimers made me LMAO.

The liberal train of thought over the past 10 to 20 years has been moving further and further towards socialism and taking money out of the hands of the febal minded public that works to make it and therefore redistributing it "fairly" among the masses. I can't seem to grasp how they can think that is a good thing, look at history!! But then again it's the same people that every time they don't win a presidential election they go and seek out and nominate a candidate that is even more liberal and farther to the left.

Oh well, Super Tuesday is turning out to be interesting. How much you bet the dems are gonna get in one heck of an uproar before it's all done. Seems to be split pretty much 50/50 on thier side. I can't wait to see what happens if it comes down to a virtual coin flip.

Looking like McCain is going to get it on the Rep side but could still get beat.

Bagger · Feb 5, 2008

XC700116 said:
The liberal train of thought over the past 10 to 20 years has been moving further and further towards socialism and taking money out of the hands of the febal minded public that works to make it and therefore redistributing it "fairly" among the masses.

Oh well, Super Tuesday is turning out to be interesting. How much you bet the dems are gonna get in one heck of an uproar before it's all done. Seems to be split pretty much 50/50 on thier side. I can't wait to see what happens if it comes down to a virtual coin flip.

Looking like McCain is going to get it on the Rep side but could still get beat.

XC,
I call it the Check a month syndrome. It's amazing to me what freedoms people will trade for a little handout. You can even hear it on here...makes me sick to my stomach.

And yes, I'm waiting for the bloodletting to begin. How in the heck can anyone pick between those two? Lets see...do I want to vote for someone that was raised Muslim, or someone that stood beside and defended the biggest embarassment to the Oval office in history?

I sure don't get the Hillary thing. If someone on here can explain to me (no joke here) why she should be President, I would appreciate it. I really mean that. I don't want to hear a bunch of promises, I want to hear an explenation of her life, accomplishments, experiance that makes her the best candidate. Obama too for that matter.

It does look like McCain is the front runner right now. I know the talking heads on the AM shows don't seem to like him. I was really researching Thompson, thought he might have done well today. Kinda' bummed anyone has quit already.

I wish some plummer would run. Or maybe a secretary. Someone that really does work for a living, that hasn't been insulated from reality for most of thier adult life.

Oh, well. Bagger

xrated · Feb 6, 2008

Bagger said:
X,
I work hard for a living, and I pay my bills before I play. I think that should answer your question as far as I'm concerned. :beer;

Chit Bagger, don't I know it. I just got my taxes today and my sled converion is gonna be waiting since there won't be enough left after paying for more importnatn stuff.

On the topic of paying for things, I heard the radio today talk about how bad Bush was for spending so much money. Here's my question...how the hell is that any differnt then Hillary or Obama wanting to socialize health care or any of the other social program that they will push for that We will pay for. Am I missing something important here?

xrated · Feb 6, 2008

It does look like McCain is the front runner right now. I know the talking heads on the AM shows don't seem to like him. I was really researching Thompson, thought he might have done well today. Kinda' bummed anyone has quit already.

I wish some plummer would run. Or maybe a secretary. Someone that really does work for a living, that hasn't been insulated from reality for most of thier adult life.

Oh, well. Bagger[/QUOTE]

I agree with your last bit Bagger, and I actually do liek McCain, hell I've been wishing he would get the nod for the last few elections. I might not agree with all of his ideas, but the guy is straight forward and doesn't sway or apologize for his views. Migth not be one of us but he's the as close as we are gonna get for sometime.

student driver · Feb 6, 2008

That plumber or what ever running is actually how it was originally supposed to be.
Our founding fathers did not want carreer polititions, but rather actual citizens who would take an office and do the job of the office, then after the term(s) alloud by law and voted etc. they were to go back to their jobs.

Hillery is dangerous.
You can judge a person by who he/she hangs out with.
She's with Bill. Nuff said there.

Obama is muslim and America was founded by Christians as one country under God.
He's out.

On the Republican side,
McCain is the front runner and although I do not like his immigration policies, he's looking like the best that we are going to get.
At least he is Ex-military/War Hero, and knows better than the rest how to be a leader.

Bagger · Feb 6, 2008

xrated said:
Bagger said:

X,
I work hard for a living, and I pay my bills before I play. I think that should answer your question as far as I'm concerned. :beer;

Chit Bagger, don't I know it. I just got my taxes today and my sled converion is gonna be waiting since there won't be enough left after paying for more importnatn stuff.

On the topic of paying for things, I heard the radio today talk about how bad Bush was for spending so much money. Here's my question...how the hell is that any differnt then Hillary or Obama wanting to socialize health care or any of the other social program that they will push for that We will pay for. Am I missing something important here?

Click to expand...

I know the feeling. My Wife and I work hard, we don't have any Children, and don't owe much money, the F'n IRS gets a full on Woodie when they get to figuring what they can milk from us come tax time.
I don't mind doing my share but I would like to see better control/intelligent spending. We are super inflating the cost of doing anything while lessening the FELT result.
Someone, I think in the Pay to ride thread was talking about user fee's being worse than higher taxes. But thru user fee's the people that are using something pay for it....not a bunch of schmo's that have never seen/done it.
Our spending is thru the roof and it seems that each new candidate gets in promising to spend more and more. Check a month.
Time to get to work. Gotta stimulate the economy by making more money!

Bagger

Post Script: Sorry about the conversion.

XC700116 · Feb 6, 2008

Bagger said:
xrated said:

I know the feeling. My Wife and I work hard, we don't have any Children, and don't owe much money, the F'n IRS gets a full on Woodie when they get to figuring what they can milk from us come tax time. (

Click to expand...

I hear that I'm single and just bought my first house when I relocated to TX with a promotion. Even with the interest paid on my mortgage I most likely will not even be able to itemize deductions this year, so no deduction for charitable donations and all that stuff. Single no head of household deduction, and getting bent over hardcore by the IRS.

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