The chassis isn't the same between the four stroke and two stroke. Over structure is completely different. Depending on model tunnel is different. They share a bulk head. The old wide plastics were designed to fit both. So many misconceptions about the Cat chassis based on old info from a major fail of a model year in 2012.
Any G4 Doo owners ride the Alpha 1
- Thread starter jrs591
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The chassis isn't the same between the four stroke and two stroke. Over structure is completely different. Depending on model tunnel is different. They share a bulk head. The old wide plastics were designed to fit both. So many misconceptions about the Cat chassis based on old info from a major fail of a model year in 2012.
My bad. It wasn’t a Mountain cat. But, even the 17 Mountain cat didn’t have the narrow belly pan like the 18’s. Just the boards were narrower.
I’d like to measure an ascender chassis against the other two. Something makes me think it’s the narrowest.
In all fairness Polaris has done an incredible job at cutting weight off in SENSIBLE areas since 2011. If you have had the chance to work much on a Pro and then and Axys, you know what I am talking about, they cut weight in SO many little places without sacrificing durability, and all those “extreme” cuts resulted in alot of pounds... pretty cool I think, and they are DURABLE, with the exception of the A-Arms and the rear bumper. I hope they continue to push lightweight sleds, so that Cat and Doo are forced to follow, there is room for these sleds to lose alot of weight and still hold up to the abuse that we love to put them through.
I dont know a ton about the proclimb chassis but wouldnt mind if they were to update it and cut some weight, and go narrower yet. I think the chassis is what makes Polaris great- not the case with cat, its more so everything around the chassis thats makes that sled what it is- a sled with a killer track, motor, and suspension package.
So many people need to go take a spin on the NEW cat ASCENDER. It is just as narrow as an axys. The chassis and suspension package on the new mountain cat is at the very least as good as an axys, I've ridden all 3 brands extensively and I think it's pretty tough to beat honestly. They are all pretty good right now. Anyone that still has it in their head that the cat is heavy, wide, and ill handling is completely out of the loop and needs to be educated.
I rode the G4 for a season, and when I checked them out at the snow show the first thing I thought was why the hell did they leave it so wide? There is a ton of room for narrowing up that chassis even more. They are a bit handicapped because they are clinging to the idea that the track needs to be 16" wide, but even so there's a good 3" there for the taking as is.
Maybe the last part of your post wasnt directed towards me, but that wasnt what I was saying at all. They are not heavy nor wide. But there is still weight to be lost on the cat where durability won’t be sacrificed, and I hope they jump on that. They have been doing a really good job of cutting a few pounds every year, and it has added up, but they’ve got a ways to go yet. AGAIN it is not a problem, but could be BETTER.
I know these new sleds are great, but I am looking forward to a new chassis. Just exciting. But it will be a couple years yet I’m sure.
im not following. 17MC and ER18 and 18MC are same boards. 17 has a fatter pan maybe but cant be much, the clutch on the 18 is a hair wider(i believe) and both motors are mounted same location, same dimensions. its mostly the sidepanels on the proclimb that give it the fat girl feel. those craptastic side panels...
i think the 18 is narrow enough, id like to see them chop the nose further back. doesnt need to be so much hood. also center motor more and redesign the car muffler. could get narrower easy doing that i guess.
i hope they stay smaller bore and keep upgrading the chassis. weve been down the 900 road before. then someone will make a super light 700 and we will go that way again. 600s should not weigh the same or more as 800s, i think skidoo is the only one whos doesnt now.
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Seems like Cat has completely caught up in the weight game. The 154 Alpha is listed at 437 lbs. What does a 155x3 Axys with the upgraded shocks weigh. I bet there isn't 5 lbs difference anymore. I bet the 850 3 inch is heavier...
I had 2 Pros and an Axys before my 17 MC. I have spent time on my buddies 16 Cat and lately have been riding a back up '10 M8 since I smacked up the MC. I also had a chance to ride the '18 MC some last weekend.
For sure we have come a LONG way boys. The 2010 I have been riding wears me out! Has awesome power still but the handling and balance just isn't what it is on the newer sleds. The 16 is still pretty heavy but a huge improvement in handling and ultimate capability. The 17 with the drop and roll was taking me places the Axys didn't. Mostly as mentioned due to better power, shock package and the 3 in track. The 18 is like riding butter, just does what you ask as smooth as silk. I found it a bit easier to ride than the 17 which just feels like a raw version of the new one.
Now the weight is off. The power and clutching is there. The body panels now work, and it feels narrower than the G4 for sure. The top notch track and shock packages push it over the top for me. The Alpha skid is going to be awesome. I honestly don't know why you would consider anything else if you were checking this spring. No way would I buy a first year Poo 850, BTDT. I hate the G4 handling. Cat baby!
Exactly,
I was a cat guy years ago.
I stopped brand bashing when I swallowed my pride and bought a well built turboed pro. I had never had so so much fun snowmobiling in my life.
I ate a lot of crow when i bought that pro.
And I won’t say I “bleed green” or that I’m all Polaris or all skidoo. I will ride what I feel like is the best. It’s my money.
Just trying to get across that “swearing off” a sled manufacture will just make you look like a desperate homo in a few years, when you come crawling back because they did something awesome.
I know this. Because I’ve done this
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all manufactures have given us products that haven't lived up to our dreams....can any poo riders speak with fond memories of the 800 engine from 08-16 ? how many of those turds got towed back ? or how about the electrical systems that even up to last year were about as trouble free as a '56 Edsel ? the ski-doo bulk heads and the pine cones, can we remember those pop cans ? or perhaps the always torch hot clutches with the ever shredding belts ? yup, cats have been heavy, didn't always handle all that well, but a poo never towed me back !! and i always had a dependable engine and could always himark a poo.....but enough of the memory check....all the sleds have their good points and bad, and we get to pick which attributes we can live with or not, ain't choice grand....so now we get to pick a snocheck for the coming season....poo doesn't make enough pooaid for me to bite off on a new engine from that less than stellar engineering department...i think the doo is a good sled, but not without its' problems also...so i think i'll take the least risk as i see it, an Alpha....strong and so far dependable engine and drive train, at least to the drive shaft...a seemingly good handling sled that doesn't hold 30 lbs of snow in the skid frame...is there some risk with the new monorail, sure, but it's minor compared to poos' engine and revised electrical system, and i hope they both work out well for polaris, but their history doesn't inspire confidence....the doo is a good sled as far as i can tell, and i love the 850 engine, just can't ride it as well as an axys or cat, my bad ability probably, but it's what i have to work with...my 3 yr old cat has always brought me back, not one problem, i can always outclimb the poo's i ride with, and while an 850 can take me in a drag race, i can consistently beat them in a deep powder climb, clutching and track mostly.....so i hope people from Arctic Cat read this, you've lost tens of thousands of sales by trying to make a trail chassis do double duty in the mountain segment, how did that work out for your bottom line ? you've got an excellent start for a significant mountain sled now.....so please, please, please----don't screw it up again 
Wasn’t comparing any sleds in that post, just saying that there are places that weight could be easily cut.
And to say that Cat is the only sled to consider this spring is pretty stupid.
I ride a 850. Tried the Alpha and after all the hype i was a bit disappointed. In trail riding ut was better than i thought, at low speed it a bit diving over the egde in corners etc. The rider position while trail riding was horrible. Yeah i know its a mnt. sled, anyway i could have been better. Somehow pretty similar 'easy' handling as the 850 in pow. Washout will happen!
Track is good. 165 feels more like a 153 ac. Throttle response and lo to mid range power is no where near the 850.
Its a good sled and it have its place, but the std. rails is a more allround sled and it would have been my choice.
But the 850 is even more allround sled, and have no big flaws. Only the known washout feeling. But the Alpha is at the same or worse level in this aspect. 850 is the more fun sled to ride. Engine power is addictive! I have the 18 and have no belt problems. My 17 last year was a disaster.
Track is good. 165 feels more like a 153 ac. Throttle response and lo to mid range power is no where near the 850.
Its a good sled and it have its place, but the std. rails is a more allround sled and it would have been my choice.
But the 850 is even more allround sled, and have no big flaws. Only the known washout feeling. But the Alpha is at the same or worse level in this aspect. 850 is the more fun sled to ride. Engine power is addictive! I have the 18 and have no belt problems. My 17 last year was a disaster.
Then what are you doing? This is a sled forum and we are comparing/discussing the new sleds...
They ALL have places where weight could be easily cut, just look at the exhaust cans.
The Cat is now among the lightest so why sacrifice durability further? The Doo and the Poo have the less durable front ends still, you can keep that and the savings.
Pretty stupid not to acknowledge Poo's abysmal engine program, but I am SURE they got it right this time. Never before but, surely this time. Go ahead check one...
I have ridden the G4 in 165 and 175. I hate the way these things handle. Couldn't ride a Doo since my demo ride on a '14 when that "improvement" came along. Nice to see they stick with torsion sprung skids still too. I just cant Doo it. Too bad because the local Doo dealer stands head and shoulders above the others here.
So for ME, with a list of valid experiences on all the sleds but the Alpha. It would be STUPID to choose anything but Cat.
I love the hype behind the 850s though, 50 more cc and the game has changed? The Poo needed it, but if it doesn't last more than a season like most Poo motors, you can have it. The guys at Doo had good reliable power, they need to go back to the drawing board and design a mountain sled with proper steering geometry, a modern skid and, fix the clutching. I do not see how it competes at all frankly.
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Little advice, open your eyes, and learn how to ride.
To try to steer back on track a little, I did get to spend a good part of two days on an Alpha. You can read my review on snowmobile.com. Conditions varied from 30" of fluff to windblown crap to tracked up meadows.
A couple thoughts beyond what the review says and re: this op - I don't own a G4 but I did own an XM and have spent time riding 17, 18, and 19 G4s. If you've spent any time comparing all 3 major brands you know the Doo handles very differently from the Cat and Polaris. It's hard for someone to jump off a Doo and feel at home on the other brands. Not as much between Cat and Polaris imo.
The biggest strengths I saw with the Alpha was the ability to roll on edge more naturally than any sled I've ridden (imo), very quick cornering in the trees, and great hook up and ability to climb. Consequently it's a blast to ride...and easy. The advantage over a G4 imo is you don't have the twitchy, unstable front end. The Alpha is predictable even in crappy conditions. I don't feel the Doo is, but that's just my opinion and definitely something you get used to with time.
I only got to sidehill moderately steep slopes. It didn't wash out. It seemed fine. However, if super steep sidehilling in spring or harder snow is what you care about, it is my guess a normal skid will outperform it. That's all I used to care about but after ending up underneath my Axys a couple times I personally ratcheted it back a few degrees!
The other thing I would say is it was fine on the trails. The easy adjust shock makes it nice and it really isn't that tippy...I guess because the front end is normal. I didn't tip it over from overriding it once but you do have to hold back the rider input a bit - overall it's pretty stable imo. Great to see some innovation and if you like variety like I do the Alpha makes for a fun day on the snow.
A couple thoughts beyond what the review says and re: this op - I don't own a G4 but I did own an XM and have spent time riding 17, 18, and 19 G4s. If you've spent any time comparing all 3 major brands you know the Doo handles very differently from the Cat and Polaris. It's hard for someone to jump off a Doo and feel at home on the other brands. Not as much between Cat and Polaris imo.
The biggest strengths I saw with the Alpha was the ability to roll on edge more naturally than any sled I've ridden (imo), very quick cornering in the trees, and great hook up and ability to climb. Consequently it's a blast to ride...and easy. The advantage over a G4 imo is you don't have the twitchy, unstable front end. The Alpha is predictable even in crappy conditions. I don't feel the Doo is, but that's just my opinion and definitely something you get used to with time.
I only got to sidehill moderately steep slopes. It didn't wash out. It seemed fine. However, if super steep sidehilling in spring or harder snow is what you care about, it is my guess a normal skid will outperform it. That's all I used to care about but after ending up underneath my Axys a couple times I personally ratcheted it back a few degrees!
The other thing I would say is it was fine on the trails. The easy adjust shock makes it nice and it really isn't that tippy...I guess because the front end is normal. I didn't tip it over from overriding it once but you do have to hold back the rider input a bit - overall it's pretty stable imo. Great to see some innovation and if you like variety like I do the Alpha makes for a fun day on the snow.
Guess I need you pro doo riders to come school me up. LOL
You are great men to be able to tame the wooliest of mountain snowmobile beasts, congratulations. Why you desire the title is beyond me.
You seriously can defend the junk skid, highest weight and widest boards? That 50 extra cc's must just be doo'in it for you! Didn't impress me.
But again, good on you for taming the worst design on the snow...
You are great men to be able to tame the wooliest of mountain snowmobile beasts, congratulations. Why you desire the title is beyond me.
You seriously can defend the junk skid, highest weight and widest boards? That 50 extra cc's must just be doo'in it for you! Didn't impress me.
But again, good on you for taming the worst design on the snow...
Maybe took it a little far, sorry. Just don’t understand why one would get so defensive when I just said there is more potential in that sled(Cat) by cutting weight without sacrificing durabilty.
The G4 is wide, it is the heaviest, and torsion springs are stupid. But it is a super capable and that motor is SWEET. I have NEVER been with any Doos in our group that have held us up because it gets too techy. Yes they are the worst sled when it gets nasty, but a very capable sled that works well, and very much so worth a consideration in 2019 IMO. That being said, there is more room for improvement on that sled now than there is on the cat. Lots of sensible weight loss, skid work, clutch work, and narrowing that could happen there. It still works well, like the Cat, but could easily be better, thats all I’m saying.
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