Diesal vs gas

Ive got a 2001 cummins, and its a little bit had to start. Was pretty bad with the stock batteries, they were gettign on 9 years old. Optima red tops at costco for 130 fixed that. when its been really cold out like -20 and colder. But even then I only had one time where i ran the batteries dead(stock ones) after it had been sitting for 3 days, and after that a quick jump got me running.

How does the V-10 pull? Pull an inline enclosed 5 place trailer. Have pulled with a Chevy 1/2 with the 6.2L. Doesn't pull too bad for what it is, was curious how the V-10 feels. Also had a 07 duramax pulling it before, that was just great, never knew it was there.....got sick of the emissions..cold weather.....and went back to gas.....not real concerned with mileage, never got anything impressive out of the diesel...

I'm in the market for a newer rig for all hauling a 4 place enclosed trailer loaded with sleds and gear. Like others here, trying to decide between a diesel and gasser with no real answer as to what would be best.

My expectations are 5k ~ 6k a year hauling sleds to the mountains in winter and not much towing in the summer (runs to the dump, trips to the mountains), but nothing serious. My budget is 21k +/- with the intention of hanging onto the rig for more than a couple of years. Thus far, I've found a couple of 05's that meet my budget:

Chevy 8.1L gas with 40k miles 3/4 ton quad cab
Dodge 5.9L diesel with 40k miles 3/4 ton quad cab

The Duramax simply appear to be more money or have higher mileage for the same dollar amount.

With all things consider, would I be best served with a gasser or the diesel.

likinit2 said:

Ok, here goes..... This is more likely for the midwestern crowd here due to the elevation power loss of the gasser. I bought a new 08 and went with the gas instead of the D-max. I bought a 3500 crew cab single wheel with 4:10 gears. It does a very good job pulling, doesn't constantly hunt for gears and when it does downshift it isn't a major event like the old 4 speed automatic. oil changes cost less than 20 bucks. no fuel filters to keep changed. ALWAYS starts and actually gets pretty decent mileage going down the hwy empty. Very happy with my choice.

Now, if I was to do alot of towing or hual a trailer for a living a diesel in a no brainer. On top of that If I was to buy used, the old gassers pretty much suck and suck gas and I would search for a D-max as my first choice.

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likinit2
What kind of mileage are you getting empty and when towing? Are you happy with the choice of 4.10 gears?
I have an 02 1500HD and looking to upgrade this summer. I'm not sure if the diesel can be justified. Heaviest thing I tow is a travel trailer that's around 8000 pounds so I'm leaning toward the same choice you made except a 2500HD gas and 4.10s.

No offense to those in the midwest but ...........

There is a big differance pulling stuff around at home compared to 10,000' + on grade.

I have a 06 5.9 cummins, there are places it is needed not just wanted, unless you like pulling a trailer up a pass at 20 mph.

And the whole argument over oil changes is a wash. you get 3k out of a gas change. 7500-15000 out of the diesel.

I usually get 5,000 miles every change on my 8.1L BBC ....

Gas Engine Advantages:

Cheaper to buy, cheaper to fix, cheaper to operate (in all but heavy, continuous towing conditions).

Case in point, the company I work for operates a fleet of 150+ 3/4-ton and 1-ton trucks .... All oilfield trucks

We've completley phased out diesel trucks in our fleet due to the horrendous capital costs of buying trucks with diesel motors and automatic transmissions (nearly $10,000 more than a gas truck these days).

I've seen the service record trends, costs, etc for several fleets of trucks, and ____YOU ARE NOT SAVING MONEY BUYING A DIESEL_____ ...... UNLESS you have 10,000-lbs you're hauling around with it EVERYWHERE you go.

I have yet to see any proof that diesel trucks are less expensive to buy or operate in anything BUT that condition. I also have yet to see any proof that the current crop of diesel motors are any more reliable than the current crop of gas motors are .... in fact, I've seen the opposite.

Diesel Engine Advantages

The two big advantages to buying a diesel are power and range. The current crop of diesel motors flat out put the power down, no questions about that. For the amount of power they produce they do get better fuel economy, which when taking into account the added cost of buying a diesel and additional fuel cost is _NOT_ paying for itself. It is however, pretty damned nice to have a 650 ft-lb towing rig in the mountains .... IMO, that's the only real advantage to buying a diesel ..... they are better tow vehicles, primarily because they just put out so much power and they do get slightly better fuel economy than a comparable gas motor, so you get more range out of the same volume of fuel ....

Like I said folks, I've done some pretty serious financial analysis on fleet truck usage, and I cannot for the life of me see where anyone is "saving money" buying a diesel truck for personal use if we can't even see a real cost benefit to using them for fleet service....

But, with that said, my next truck will for sure be a diesel .... I love my BBC and have no trouble towing a 5,000-lb trailer around the mountains with it, but you can't get them anymore .... and it is nice to have that diesel power .... I guess I'm just gonna have to fork over the cash for it

AbnRangerM7 said:

likinit2
What kind of mileage are you getting empty and when towing? Are you happy with the choice of 4.10 gears?
I have an 02 1500HD and looking to upgrade this summer. I'm not sure if the diesel can be justified. Heaviest thing I tow is a travel trailer that's around 8000 pounds so I'm leaning toward the same choice you made except a 2500HD gas and 4.10s.

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I get 15-17 on the hwy depending on how fast and how much wind in the wrong direction. around local I get about 13mpg. Sucks gas when pulling the 6 place enclosed trailers but it does it well. I wouldn't buy one without 4:10 gears, the 6.0L gas is not a big block and both 5th and 6th gears are overdrive. I totaly agree with the guys that use their trucks at high altitude, the gas trucks fall off the higher you go but I am impressed with what my gas job will do. For me there is just no justification for a diesel. Fact is there are legitmate arguments both ways and just like anything, maybe you just want a diesel! Just wanting something has been reason enough for me on many toys and things I figure I need as well..........

diesel is the only way to go for pulling. i have dodges and a duramax and love both. if your looking at a dmax look at the earlier ones. lb7 lly lbz are all very good trucks. the lmm has the dpf witch is easily fixed and will get the same mileage as the older ones, the problem is getting gm to stand behind the lmm if something goes wrong with it and you have programed the ecm and removed the cat and dpf. personally i don't think the lmm is built as well as the earlier duramaxes. i have an 05 lly with compounds that makes 700 whp and pulls amazingly does 18mpg empty on the hi way.

Camric said:

I'm in the market for a newer rig for all hauling a 4 place enclosed trailer loaded with sleds and gear. Like others here, trying to decide between a diesel and gasser with no real answer as to what would be best.

My expectations are 5k ~ 6k a year hauling sleds to the mountains in winter and not much towing in the summer (runs to the dump, trips to the mountains), but nothing serious. My budget is 21k +/- with the intention of hanging onto the rig for more than a couple of years. Thus far, I've found a couple of 05's that meet my budget:

Chevy 8.1L gas with 40k miles 3/4 ton quad cab
Dodge 5.9L diesel with 40k miles 3/4 ton quad cab

The Duramax simply appear to be more money or have higher mileage for the same dollar amount.

With all things consider, would I be best served with a gasser or the diesel.

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For only 5 - 6k a year i would probably go with the gasser. .

I usually put on around 5 -6k per month and tow about a third of the time so i went diesel... although even if i didnt tow i probably would have got one anyway cause thats what i wanted.

In the end it comes down to getting what YOU want. If you don't mind the extra costs of purchasing and maintaining a diesel because thats what you really want then go for it! :beer;

zr600 said:

Everybody tells me to buy a diesal in my price range except one buddy that just hates them, he is in love with his ford v10. I pull a 5th wheel camper every to every other weekend in the summer and enclosed sled trailors ranging in size from 7x29to 8.5x35 to the mountains 2-3 a year. Will an diesal without a dpf get any better mileage with the new low sulfur fuel than a v10 or chevy 8.1? How do the 8.1s pull i would maybe consider one of these. I don't think the 6.0 has enough torque.

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6.0 has some torque! Stock is 325HP/560Ft of torque. I have mine chipped with a cold air intake with 35" tires & a 4" lift. I get 18mpg on the freeway and 12 to 15 in town. Thats using low sulfur fuel. Next is a 4" exhaust! It pulls like a bastard with my 26' enclosed trailer loaded with sleds and gear. Not a problem!!! I'll put it up to any 8.1L or a V10 any-day. :beer;JMHO:beer;

Get a Diesel.... You wont be sorry that you did!

As mentioned above if you don't NEED a diesel don't get one. I have a Cummins now but my next truck will be a gasser for sure because I don't tow real heavy anymore. For just toy hauling a gasser is fine and much cheaper to operate!!

Okay gotta chime in here.

I bought an old Ford 7.3 liter with a banks supercharger on it. I get 18 freeway and 12 pulling a 26 foot trailer.

I am replacing a Chevy with a 454 in it. I get 12 freeway and 8mpg pulling.

As far as maintenance.

I get diesel fuel filters for under 15 dollars and an oil filter for $6. Buy a case at a time. Get oil from Walmart.

I think I am better off with a pre 2000 truck. Also, California is gonna start inspecting diesel trucks starting April 2010.

I guess Nevada, New York and Colorado have a smog check requirement?

So my question is ... what pre 2000 truck would you buy?

Ford428CJ said:

6.0 has some torque! Stock is 325HP/560Ft of torque. I have mine chipped with a cold air intake with 35" tires & a 4" lift. I get 18mpg on the freeway and 12 to 15 in town. Thats using low sulfur fuel. Next is a 4" exhaust! It pulls like a bastard with my 26' enclosed trailer loaded with sleds and gear. Not a problem!!! I'll put it up to any 8.1L or a V10 any-day. :beer;JMHO:beer;

Get a Diesel.... You wont be sorry that you did!

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bone stock for bone stock you will loose too...8.1 is a mean pulling motor as sold...modded out..hard to say..they make a mean blower setup for the 8.1 as well...........

AKSNOWRIDER said:

bone stock for bone stock you will loose too...8.1 is a mean pulling motor as sold...modded out..hard to say..they make a mean blower setup for the 8.1 as well...........

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A cummins doesnt leak or burn oil like an 8.1

EDIT: or go through fuel pumps & AKyeti on heres 06 powerstroke STOCK out pulls the 8.1 we had

AKSNOWRIDER said:

bone stock for bone stock you will loose too...8.1 is a mean pulling motor as sold...modded out..hard to say..they make a mean blower setup for the 8.1 as well...........

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Stock for stock that motor would out-pull an 8.1L I'm pretty sure, it has about 100 ft-lbs on it .... that is if you could get it past several intersections that they're prone to die in the middle of ...

LOL ..

This is the thing about the diesel trucks ... these guys pay $7-9,000 more for them up front, then they put big tires and all this garbage on them, and if they remembered to re-program the computer for the right tire size even, they might get slightly better fuel economy than a stock gas motor .... and it only cost them $20,000 more by the time it was all said and done.

You couldn't pay me enough money to tow a big trailer with a lifted truck ... I don't even wanna try that ****. Way more of a PITA than it's worth ...

And then to top it off, virtually none of these guys doing this with their diesel trucks bother to re-gear .... then they wonder why they can't tack a 4-place enclosed trailer on and get their turbo to spool up, why their transmission temperature is consistently above 210 degrees, etc ....

Really?? How big of a truck are you talking about? Because 37s and a 6" lift isnt much of an issue at all. Im not saying id want to be hooked up to 12k pounds all the time... But the half dozen times i had been, and the 8k pound enclosed with my car in it was no problem at all. Pulled both stock, and both with decent tow tunes and never saw over 200 degree's in the trans, and that was attacking the hills like i was in a hurry. Weird...

highmark18 said:

Rotella 5-40 synthetic. I used to run the Rotella 15-40, now I run the 5-40 synthetic year around. The difference is unbeliveable when it gets below zero. Turns over so much faster, starts easier, much nicer on things. Yeah it costs more, but I run longer between changes.

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Best bang for the buck you could ever do on a diesel!!! I wish that I had learned this years ago. I finally switched to the Rotella 5-40 synthetic in my 96 7.3. It used to be good to -10 to -20F with frsh batteries and glow plug system working. Below that, it was always very iffy if not plugged in. When it did start, it would make you cringe with all the strange noises it would make. Now with the thinner synthetic, at -20F unplugged, it pops right off as if it was +50F and makes no strange noises. I have no idea how cold it would really fire off at since I generally plug them in when it does get below zero. About -25 is the coldest that I have forgotten to plug it in at. I am a true believer in the synthetic for the diesels in the cold after making the switch. Worth every penny!

Interesting about the synthetics, iv got over 200k on dyno oil, 15/40, no motor leaks. Would switching to the Rotella 5/40 create leaks? I change the oil and filter every 3k

CATillak said:

Interesting about the synthetics, iv got over 200k on dyno oil, 15/40, no motor leaks. Would switching to the Rotella 5/40 create leaks? I change the oil and filter every 3k

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I had about 170xxx when I made the switch from delo400 since it was new. I have had no issues since I switched and no have right at 200xxx.

AKSNOWRIDER said:

bone stock for bone stock you will loose too...8.1 is a mean pulling motor as sold...modded out..hard to say..they make a mean blower setup for the 8.1 as well...........

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Stock form.... I would still take that challenge for sure. Still make well over 100ft pounds of Tq with a sick liter. And using lot less cubes. JMHO

Diesels are hard to beat when it comes to towing heavy loads!