New fuel system testing.

TurboMatt · Jun 14, 2010

No problem, just wondering. Sounds cool. I have ran a full SDS standalone for 6 years on a car I just sold a couple months ago. It worked well for all 6 years and when I did need help SDS was always awsome to help out. Easy to adjust and no laptop needed. That's the only reason I know all about SDS.

How is the drivablility OFF boost, ie. just running on stock computer? This is one of the only things I'm concerned about at this point. Putting a turbo on the sled, w/ intercooler piping, intercooler, etc has to alter the airflow off boost somewhat, I'd think this is going to affect the driveablitiy off boost. The a/f's gotta be outta wack. But you say they are running great, so it mustn't be enough to matter I guess.
Where are you getting the tack signal from?
Nice job so far...I am very intrigued. I am in the process of putting my 1st turbo Apex together and am still undecided on what I am gonna run for fuel management. I will be staying tuned.

NM · Jun 14, 2010

TurboMatt said:
No problem, just wondering. Sounds cool. I have ran a full SDS standalone for 6 years on a car I just sold a couple months ago. It worked well for all 6 years and when I did need help SDS was always awsome to help out. Easy to adjust and no laptop needed. That's the only reason I know all about SDS.

How is the drivablility OFF boost, ie. just running on stock computer? This is one of the only things I'm concerned about at this point. Putting a turbo on the sled, w/ intercooler piping, intercooler, etc has to alter the airflow off boost somewhat, I'd think this is going to affect the driveablitiy off boost. The a/f's gotta be outta wack. But you say they are running great, so it mustn't be enough to matter I guess.
Where are you getting the tack signal from?
Nice job so far...I am very intrigued. I am in the process of putting my 1st turbo Apex together and am still undecided on what I am gonna run for fuel management. I will be staying tuned.

The low cruise circuit can be adjusted on these sleds, so A/F's pre boost are not a problem.
The installation instructions will explain all wiring, modifications to stock sensors, setting low cruise circuit etc. I can't give away all R&D.:face-icon-small-win. I just drove 12 hours plus 2 hours on a logging road, got a hotel room and had to buy beer in B.C.:yell:, just to do 3 hours riding, not to mention driving almost 2 kilometeres of gravel road with my sleds. This is all in hopes that someone else can enjoy what I discovered.:face-icon-small-hap
Cheers

NM · Jun 14, 2010

more pics.

canucklehead · Jun 14, 2010

If r&d for this kit includes... (1)the cost of beer for you (2)bought in BC then it could come in a tad pricey!:beer;:beer;:beer;

NM · Jun 14, 2010

canucklehead said:
If r&d for this kit includes... (1)the cost of beer for you (2)bought in BC then it could come in a tad pricey!:beer;:beer;:beer;

Ya no kidding huh?
The hills with set up snow seem pretty short to test on wide open but I have video of my Speedo, Boost guage, and tach, and at 16 lbs boost in about 500 ft I had 122 kph track speed and 10400 rpm. It looks to me like there is alot left on the table. I really didn't want to start blowing lugs off the 3 inch track either.

RidnHigh · Jun 14, 2010

Love what your doing NM, looks to be a goer here in the near future....cant wait to start the new nytro build this summer. Was noticing your intercooler tied down with a ratchet strap....is it just left there cuz thats where you strapped the beer to or....haha

NM · Jun 15, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEuu_9MIxzk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf82ig7AVLw
Couple of vids running this system on my Nytro. The throttle response is the best it has ever been. In these vids I'm running 15 lbs boost and about 82 gr Dalton weights.
Just a warning that there is some foul language in the second video. My buddy and I were a bit pumped after the tandem up Gibbs Gash. Sorry

roughrider99 · Jun 15, 2010

could you give us a hint what the cost range would be for this unit. looked at the sds site and i'm likin this setup more and more. seems stick to the rules of kiss (keep it simple stupid)

NM · Jun 15, 2010

roughrider99 said:
could you give us a hint what the cost range would be for this unit. looked at the sds site and i'm likin this setup more and more. seems stick to the rules of kiss (keep it simple stupid)

haha. Ya I love the kiss rule. The kits will be between 1000 and 1400.00 incl tax depending on how many injectors, what size of injectors, etc. I am doing up install instructions now for the Nytro's. I will sell Apex kits only to those that are good tuners because I only have 1 day testing on the Apex, but I know it works. It is unreal on the Nytro's. :face-icon-small-hap

yammi4ever · Jun 15, 2010

Ok, mind giving me a little more info on your new controller? I am running a PL with RB3 on a nytro and at home (1000 feet) it runs pretty hard, and at 8-10000 feet it runs ok, but not perfect. definitely has the low end burble that people talk about.

How is this system going to be, I take it there is no maps, is it closed loop. You say tuning will take only a few minutes, How? I am not a tuner. I assume your pictures are leaving out the controller you hook up to make these changes (looks like it is on the companies web page)

Thanks, Please give any info you are willing to give. I have stock injectors and I believe it is a 2to1 regulator that comes with the PL kit.

Kirk Welton

ruffryder · Jun 15, 2010

yammi4ever said:
How is this system going to be, I take it there is no maps, is it closed loop.

It sounds like it is not closed loop, but open loop. There is no feed back in the system, besides the tuner.:face-icon-small-win

FYI, the stock yamaha system is open loop alpha-n style. The computer determines the amount of fuel to add based on RPM and Throttle position only. There are scale factors / corrections for engine temp, ambient temp, and manifold pressure, but these are generally only for altitude and temperature corrections.

ruffryder · Jun 15, 2010

NM said:
The knob on the left adjusts at what amount of boost the box starts to add fuel. The other knob is simply adjusting duty cycle of the injectors for more or less fuel. .

Don't both the knobs adjust the amount of fuel then? Or is the first one just the starting point, and the second one the amount of fuel that is added? Or are we getting into the super secret technical stuff? :face-icon-small-win

EZmoney · Jun 15, 2010

I believe one nob adjust when you want your fuel to start coming on, i think Neil had it set at 4psi on the nytro. So from 0 to 4psi your running off the stock fuel and then the extra comes on with the desired boost.Having control of that will clean the bottom end up on alot of sleds. The second nob adjust the total amount of fuel to get your a/f mix at wot.

NM · Jun 16, 2010

yammi4ever said:
Ok, mind giving me a little more info on your new controller? I am running a PL with RB3 on a nytro and at home (1000 feet) it runs pretty hard, and at 8-10000 feet it runs ok, but not perfect. definitely has the low end burble that people talk about.

How is this system going to be, I take it there is no maps, is it closed loop. You say tuning will take only a few minutes, How? I am not a tuner. I assume your pictures are leaving out the controller you hook up to make these changes (looks like it is on the companies web page)

Thanks, Please give any info you are willing to give. I have stock injectors and I believe it is a 2to1 regulator that comes with the PL kit.

Kirk Welton

What from what I have seen, the Rapid Bike box does not do a good job of adjusting for elevation changes and/or air pressure changes. It takes a very refined fuel injection system to accurately compensate for every condition a snowmobile has to deal with. With this system, it only adds fuel based on boost pressure and RPM, and can be adjusted by the rider in a matter of seconds. Obviously you need more fuel at lower elevation and less at higher elevation and that is best part of this system because you can adjust it for no matter where you ride or what the conditions are.
Your sled will not make alot of power with stock injectors, even with a 2:1 regulator. I am not an expert, but I have learned alot about injector duty cycle, effects of high fuel pressure, and trying to trick the stock system in to providing enough fuel under boost.
Yamaha spent huge amounts of money trying to perfect the stock fuel mapping on their sleds...so why mess with that? This system allows you too run the stock fuel system in stock form so you get all the benefits of stock fueling, incl great throttle response, good starting, and great fuel economy. This fuel box I use only adds fuel for boost and lets the stock system do it's thing.
If you want the Rapid bike to work, then you need to either ride at the same elevation and same conditions all of the time, or have 10 different maps and pack a laptop Sounds fun huh?
Hope this helps.

NM · Jun 16, 2010

ruffryder said:
Don't both the knobs adjust the amount of fuel then? Or is the first one just the starting point, and the second one the amount of fuel that is added? Or are we getting into the super secret technical stuff? :face-icon-small-win

You catch on quick! lol.
Not to many super secrets, but I can tell you that I had this system working way better the second ride than the first, and that was by changing 2 small things in the plumbing. I can also tell you that it has run perfectly every day after that.:face-icon-small-win

NM · Jun 16, 2010

I have alot of inquiries from MCxpress guys that want to know if it will work with the extra injectors that they already have, and the my answer is probably. I wont know for sure until I get my hands on a sled with a MC kit. MC is a good system, and I originally was going to buy their fuel system until I found out it was going to cost me over over 2500.00 incl the megatune programmer, and I still needed a laptop for adjusting the fuel settings.:face-icon-small-sho. I know the MC guys would love the adjustability of this fuel box, and they only have to buy the fuel box.

PistonBroke · Jun 16, 2010

If my MC box ever pukes, I am going to have to look into this for sure!

I am guessing that an A/F gauge is mandatory when running a user-adjustable system?

Very cool stuff Neil.

NM said:
I have alot of inquiries from MCxpress guys that want to know if it will work with the extra injectors that they already have, and the my answer is probably. I wont know for sure until I get my hands on a sled with a MC kit. MC is a good system, and I originally was going to buy their fuel system until I found out it was going to cost me over over 2500.00 incl the megatune programmer, and I still needed a laptop for adjusting the fuel settings.:face-icon-small-sho. I know the MC guys would love the adjustability of this fuel box, and they only have to buy the fuel box.

bigbird · Jun 16, 2010

Very cool Neil. I think alot of guys will appreciate the effort. Be very curious to see how it works with the MCX kits.

NM · Jun 17, 2010

PistonBroke said:
If my MC box ever pukes, I am going to have to look into this for sure!

I am guessing that an A/F gauge is mandatory when running a user-adjustable system?

Very cool stuff Neil.

I would highly recommend a good operating A/F guage for tuning this system. It is not absolutely needed, but is always a good tuning aid.
I rode my Apex Sunday without a guage. I set my fuel very rich to start with and just kept dialing it back until the sled ran clean. It really only took a few minutes to have it running good. I was probably a bit on rich side yet, but the sled was pulling hard. The Yamaha motors are pretty forgiving and seem to run decent if rich, but they definately don't like to be lean and will either lean pop badly or just not make any power at all.

Wheel House Motorsports · Jun 17, 2010

I am unfortunately not in the fuelie world yet, BUT, this stuff looks awsome. as far as the controls, it reminds me a LOT of the progressive water/meth injection controllers, initial start and then basically the rate it goes at. As far as tuning goes, once you are used to how your sled reacts with certeain levels of fueling, its pretty dang easy to dial and go. with or without a gauge. my carb setup has a similar system for dealing with float bowl pressure, it takes me a few seconds to dial in my sled for the given conditions each day.

New fuel system testing.

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