rapid bike

sled-fiend said:

Maybe you should until you actually have a running sled that you can put up against one of his.....:face-icon-small-dis

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you got me wrong, i just wanted to tell NM not to put down other products that are exactly what he has! doesn't make sens to me to put down other makes/models of fuel box when what he created is another of those piggyback controller......maybe a bit more user friendly. on another note, i actually have 2 artic cat(1000cc 800cc)curently running with 100% standalone.....1000c ready for this winter and 800cc currently on the engine dyno.

supraturbo said:

you got me wrong, i just wanted to tell NM not to put down other products that are exactly what he has! doesn't make sens to me to put down other makes/models of fuel box when what he created is another of those piggyback controller......maybe a bit more user friendly. on another note, i actually have 2 artic cat(1000cc 800cc)curently running with 100% standalone.....1000c ready for this winter and 800cc currently on the engine dyno.

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Obviously you can not read english. This is not anything like a Dobeck box or a Crapid bike. This is a extra injector controller that controls fuel for extra injectors. The stock fuel system is intact and does it's thing. You might have to adjust CO's for low speed cruise, but that takes all of 2 minutes.
Where is your great fuel system??????
I would love to have the exact same sleds with all different fuel systems on the same hill on the same day. Then give me whatever it is the tuner uses to tune their fuel mapping and let me change it however I want, and they can do the same to my system. Now at the same time, I want to see everyone tune their system for the conditions they will be riding in that day. I would love to see the laptops and pda's plugged in to the sleds trying to get them running, because I would have mine tuned perfectly before the Crapid bike guys laptop got warmed up.
I have read all the posts about the mythical fuel injection system you are developing. Well guess what...it will never work in the mountains!! Never! :face-icon-small-con:face-icon-small-dis

come down people.

99% of all turbo sled people do not care about EFI BS,
they just want to ride.

NM said:

Obviously you can not read english. This is not anything like a Dobeck box or a Crapid bike. This is a extra injector controller that controls fuel for extra injectors. The stock fuel system is intact and does it's thing. You might have to adjust CO's for low speed cruise, but that takes all of 2 minutes.
Where is your great fuel system??????
I would love to have the exact same sleds with all different fuel systems on the same hill on the same day. Then give me whatever it is the tuner uses to tune their fuel mapping and let me change it however I want, and they can do the same to my system. Now at the same time, I want to see everyone tune their system for the conditions they will be riding in that day. I would love to see the laptops and pda's plugged in to the sleds trying to get them running, because I would have mine tuned perfectly before the Crapid bike guys laptop got warmed up.
I have read all the posts about the mythical fuel injection system you are developing. Well guess what...it will never work in the mountains!! Never! :face-icon-small-con:face-icon-small-dis

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guys cant we just all get along ??? there are pros and cons to every system .

Well put

YETIms said:

come down people.

99% of all turbo sled people do not care about EFI BS,
they just want to ride.

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I agree 10000%. All this hair splitting over the last ounce of performance that 75% of the riders out there don't need. I don't want to pi$$ around with ANYTHING when I'm on the mountain. The min. I start trying to tune a sled, for what ever reason, when I'm suppose to be riding is when I take that sucker back down the hill and park it in the trailer. Ya, I got a Rapid Bike(not crapid-bike NM) and although it may burble and fart once in a while and I would like it to be better than that, I have never been left stranded in the last 4500mi. by my turbo system. It hauls the mail when I ask it too and even if you kick my butt six ways from sun. I'll still enjoy what I have because I do not have to touch it to make it work well.
What started off to be an informative post has turned into bashing contest by yourself and a few others NM and that has taken you down to the same level as everyone else that can't wait to trash someone or someones product or ideas on these forums. I think that if you are on here to promote or talk about something you have then that is what you should do and if you are prepared to get into a bashfest and risk your own credibility in the process then you should consider a "mail out" instead.

tranquillicer said:

I agree 10000%. All this hair splitting over the last ounce of performance that 75% of the riders out there don't need. I don't want to pi$$ around with ANYTHING when I'm on the mountain. The min. I start trying to tune a sled, for what ever reason, when I'm suppose to be riding is when I take that sucker back down the hill and park it in the trailer. Ya, I got a Rapid Bike(not crapid-bike NM) and although it may burble and fart once in a while and I would like it to be better than that, I have never been left stranded in the last 4500mi. by my turbo system. It hauls the mail when I ask it too and even if you kick my butt six ways from sun. I'll still enjoy what I have because I do not have to touch it to make it work well.
What started off to be an informative post has turned into bashing contest by yourself and a few others NM and that has taken you down to the same level as everyone else that can't wait to trash someone or someones product or ideas on these forums. I think that if you are on here to promote or talk about something you have then that is what you should do and if you are prepared to get into a bashfest and risk your own credibility in the process then you should consider a "mail out" instead.

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I understand what your saying, but I have owned a Rapid bike box...I paid the money! I honestly think they are a good idea that could not be executed properly for all conditions. If you like it then thats fine. We all have choices.

NM said:

Obviously you can not read english. This is not anything like a Dobeck box or a Crapid bike. This is a extra injector controller that controls fuel for extra injectors. The stock fuel system is intact and does it's thing. You might have to adjust CO's for low speed cruise, but that takes all of 2 minutes.
Where is your great fuel system??????
I would love to have the exact same sleds with all different fuel systems on the same hill on the same day. Then give me whatever it is the tuner uses to tune their fuel mapping and let me change it however I want, and they can do the same to my system. Now at the same time, I want to see everyone tune their system for the conditions they will be riding in that day. I would love to see the laptops and pda's plugged in to the sleds trying to get them running, because I would have mine tuned perfectly before the Crapid bike guys laptop got warmed up.
I have read all the posts about the mythical fuel injection system you are developing. Well guess what...it will never work in the mountains!! Never! :face-icon-small-con:face-icon-small-dis

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NM said:

I understand what your saying, but I have owned a Rapid bike box...I paid the money! I honestly think they are a good idea that could not be executed properly for all conditions. If you like it then thats fine. We all have choices.

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obviously NM your are very aggressive for no reasons..... with your extra injector controller,you simply dump more fuel when oem injector run out of it(boost) that makes it a PIGGYBACK injector controller whatever you like it or not....not saying it is no good and will not work but it is a band-aid on a blister....like all other piggyback. Rapid bike is a good product in its idea but still a piggyback(that is where the industry is at right now). as for my mythic standalone, well it is not ready for public sale,still need a few tuning hours but final product will be great believe me,final pin-out of a/c harness is ready and plugged with many hours/weeks on it already.i don't mean it will be faster or out climb everybody.......it is a plug and play pull cord setup with 5 diffrent boost level at a flick of a switch with altitude compensation and brometric sensors for some turbo kit builder......exact same setup(and more) as a/c,yammy/polaris are using in their o.e.m. ecu and as far as i know,you can leave at 1000' up to 12000' with less h.p.of course(that's where turbos are usefull!!!) but sled runs like a champ all the way through! by no mean i wanted to be rude or bash your thread.... but moderate your voice tone with other companie's piggyback, it can bounce back in your face pretty rapidly.

supraturbo said:

obviously NM your are very aggressive for no reasons..... with your extra injector controller,you simply dump more fuel when oem injector run out of it(boost) that makes it a PIGGYBACK injector controller whatever you like it or not....not saying it is no good and will not work but it is a band-aid on a blister....like all other piggyback. Rapid bike is a good product in its idea but still a piggyback(that is where the industry is at right now). as for my mythic standalone, well it is not ready for public sale,still need a few tuning hours but final product will be great believe me,final pin-out of a/c harness is ready and plugged with many hours/weeks on it already.i don't mean it will be faster or out climb everybody.......it is a plug and play pull cord setup with 5 diffrent boost level at a flick of a switch with altitude compensation and brometric sensors for some turbo kit builder......exact same setup(and more) as a/c,yammy/polaris are using in their o.e.m. ecu and as far as i know,you can leave at 1000' up to 12000' with less h.p.of course(that's where turbos are usefull!!!) but sled runs like a champ all the way through! by no mean i wanted to be rude or bash your thread.... but moderate your voice tone with other companie's piggyback, it can bounce back in your face pretty rapidly.

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How can you call what I have a piggyback, and then call Rapid bike a piggyback? They are nothing similar.
What I have is basically a standalone turbo triggered fuel system that only adds fuel under boost. My fuel controller has no idea what the factory ecu is doing, and the factory ecu has no idea what my box is doing. I can offer enough fuel to support 400 horsepower and the sled still drives up and down the trail and arouind the mountain like a stock sled on the stock fuel settings, with the stock injectors. The OEMs have spent countless hours and tens of thousands or more tuning their fuel injection systems, and this is why I chose to leave it intact. You think you can build a better fuel map than the OEMs on a dyno?
With your standalone, what do you do when the load dramatically changes(snow conditions)? Because if you tuned on a dyno for throttle position, rpm, barometric, elevation, etc...did you run extended time and adjust load on the motor to see what it did to your A/Fs? Did the ecu adjust for load, or are you banking that the snow conditions will be the same everyday?
Turbo snowmobiles are the hardest motorized vehicle in the world to tune properly for all conditions, because they are so different day to day. I just found a way to make it way easier than everyone else. :face-icon-small-sho

YETIms said:

come down people.

99% of all turbo sled people do not care about EFI BS,
they just want to ride.

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You are wrong! Tell that to the guys that have between 20000.00 and 50000.00 in their sleds, but they won't run when they get them on the hill. You learn really to care really fast! I know I did.:face-icon-small-hap

that are 0,00005% of snowmobile population, they think they need it.

NM said:

You are wrong! Tell that to the guys that have between 20000.00 and 50000.00 in their sleds, but they won't run when they get them on the hill. You learn really to care really fast! I know I did.:face-icon-small-hap

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YETIms said:

that are 0,00005% of snowmobile population, they think they need it.

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You sound like you have some good information. Where are you getting these statistics? You will be a handy guy to know when we all need to know the percentage of something.:face-icon-small-con

YETIms said:

that are 0,00005% of snowmobile population, they think they need it.

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I think it's hard for most people to understand, but the act of tuning sleds/cars/whatnot can be a real addiction in itself. Once you learn the art as I have and others like NM have you become addicted to always wanting to make your vehicle run the best that it can. When you have control over the sled with an efi controller or standalone or the like you feed the addiction.
It can be very fun for some and also VERY rewarding to get your sled running the best that it can and to know you made it that way and no one else helped or did it for you. That's how I always felt anyways.

That's not to say that I or anyone else like NM doesn't enjoy the riding, cause I sure as hell do!!!!! If I didn't I wouldn't drive 16-18hrs(in a bumpy/cramped a** truck) to find snow a few times each winter out west. But for me anyways a 1/3 the fun is the build, a 1/3 is knowing you did it yourself and things are working really good because of yourself and the other 1/3 is the ride itself.

I think there are a lot of other riders out there, and this goes on in the car world too, that really don't have the pride in their sled/car or knowing they got it running themselves, they just care about the riding itself.

I must say that even if I was rich I wouldn't be paying people to put sleds together for me. I'd just be buying more expensive parts to build the sleds with myself.LOL

And yes it may be a very small percentage of people that actually care about this......But it is this small percentage that come up with these new innovations in tuning tech so that the people that don't care, don't have to. Guys like the owners of Impulse, Powderlites, Twisted, OVS etc. haven't spent a good part of their life working on this stuff just because they care about riding, it's because they pride themselves in what they do, getting sleds running the best they can. And it's because of this that so many others don't have to care, I think you should be happy for people like NM.

Sorry in advance for the long rant....I'm just in one of those moods.:smokin:

supraturbo said:

obviously NM your are very aggressive for no reasons..... with your extra injector controller,you simply dump more fuel when oem injector run out of it(boost) that makes it a PIGGYBACK injector controller whatever you like it or not....not saying it is no good and will not work but it is a band-aid on a blister....like all other piggyback. Rapid bike is a good product in its idea but still a piggyback(that is where the industry is at right now). as for my mythic standalone, well it is not ready for public sale,still need a few tuning hours but final product will be great believe me,final pin-out of a/c harness is ready and plugged with many hours/weeks on it already.i don't mean it will be faster or out climb everybody.......it is a plug and play pull cord setup with 5 diffrent boost level at a flick of a switch with altitude compensation and brometric sensors for some turbo kit builder......exact same setup(and more) as a/c,yammy/polaris are using in their o.e.m. ecu and as far as i know,you can leave at 1000' up to 12000' with less h.p.of course(that's where turbos are usefull!!!) but sled runs like a champ all the way through! by no mean i wanted to be rude or bash your thread.... but moderate your voice tone with other companie's piggyback, it can bounce back in your face pretty rapidly.

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Who gives a chit if it is a Standalone, Piggyback, etc, etc, whatever works. A true Standalone fuel system allows you to build complete replacement fuel, timing maps, control systems for your engine. I agree the Standalone systems are way to go in theory(I'm talking timing and fuel) but they are not ready yet, I dont think they will be for another 2+ seasons, and they still might not out perform some of the simpler set ups like NM's. If they can't do that, the only other thing that would interest me would be the ability to run premium and have fail safes to control detonation, like trim fuel, etc.

I've played with the RB3(probably longer than most), PL box, Boondocker, and yes even the Vipec you are TRYING to develope. I can tell you, you haven't proven anything until you come test in the conditions we ride in, Cam already warned you about that. I always make changes for the altitude I ride at. The dyno doesnt mean chit out here, too many variables riding in high elevation. We had to tune the Vipec in different load conditions up and downhill to get the throttle response where it needs to be. The most difficult area to tune was where the Vipec fades from TPS to the map sensor. Top end is easy to tune, especially with the large injectors this Apex sled has. I couldn't imagine trying to tune the timing and fuel without the bread crumb and trace function the Vipec has. We can accomplish more in 20 minutes tuning at altitude by feel(using a/f and EGT's as reference) than anyone can on the dyno, RB3 or Vipec. These things are nothing like a car.

The SDS system is stupid simple and the best option right now to make safe, reliable, ADJUSTABLE HP. The other boxes are too complicated for most people, the thought of playing with a fuel map, scares the chit out of most. At least the SDS is simple enough most can learn how to operate it in less than a minute. NM is right, the sleds we ride are a different animal, they are very difficult to tune, the load conditions, altitude and air pressure change so much it is nearly impossible to set up a fuel system to keep up. I'd rather have the simple option of turning a dial an 1/8 of a turn and riding out the rest of the day rather than switching maps, tuning on the computer or relying on others to make changes for me. Another advantage to his system is an unlimited supply of fuel for running higher HP, engine/turbo set ups. I'm going to run the SDS system until something else is proven to be better. I would rather be out riding or :fish2: than pissing with maps and computers on the mountain.

Duke

and that put us back to the original topic.

powderlites ovs, twisted ,,, are already making bulletproof kit's with efi controller for people they just have to install it and run it.

so all of those already have a good solution for EFI. but there is always something you can install, but normally you do not need it.

NM stuff is cool, hope someone will use it in their turbo kit bur for now there are already good solutions on the market

TurboMatt said:

Guys like the owners of Impulse, Powderlites, Twisted, OVS etc. haven't spent a good part of their life working on this stuff just because they care about riding, it's because they pride themselves in what they do, getting sleds running the best they can. And it's because of this that so many others don't have to care, I think you should be happy for people like NM.

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NM was trying to help. By far the majority of inconsistant running nytros are pl kits. Hell they can't even make the owner of another well known sled website run properly for more than half a day, and I'm sure he has all the latest greatest mapping. Just cause you don't like the answer don't blame NM.

PASSSED YOU said:

I originally posted this QUESTION and since you commented on it there has not been any response to my orginal question please if you want to start bad mouthing on of the best and nicest turbo designeers dont do it on my thread start your own bull**** somewhere else i want to ride all day without tuneing on the hill thats what the other five days of the week are for guys like you are no fun to ride with we never find the good riding because you think your Mr tunemaster i got what i got someone else did all trhe dyno on this set up so guys like me who love making the first tracks allday long can doit and not be riding in someone elses track the PL turbo kit has been awesome it gets me where i want to go and back i can tune at home ride on the hill John Force nevers pulls up to the line and adjusts anything its all done out in the pits Run what you brung hopefully you did your homework on your previous trip to change what you think might need to be adjusted which probably doesnt it your little man complex talking Sorry poeople about my rant but couldnt handle it anymore thanks if any one has any helpful tips on the RB3 setup they are running please respond so i will have fun next season on my TNYTRO only rode four times at the end of season so i cant wait for a full season of BOOST CRUZIN wit MY BOOST CRUZIN BUDDIES or BCB for short love that BOOST im an addict of it now

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Maybe no ones responding with your question because they are the same as you and dont know or it jusrt really has not worked all that great. Ever think of that?You asked a question and you got peoples opinion did you not?? In Your first post that started this thread your question was, "how to use a rb3, not understanding maps and how to use it properly" To me that says that box is not for you! NM and others i know tried this box long before you did. People's opinion on the rb3 has nothing to do with how nice your turbo builder or their design.. They never designed the fuel box, they just sell it. Second guys that tune like myself, do so because i put thousands into my sled and bought what i thought to be the best.. By the best i mean, clean running all time, big power, and THROTTLE response and reliability day in and day out. Tunning my kit only takes me seconds. You have this misconception that it takes all day and we are missing out on ridding. No not the case. I dont have a lap top, its one blast up a hill or lake and im done its tuned. My sled doesnt burble and fart ever and im tough to beat every day because i dont have a map that works here and there and just ok.You telling me that you tune at home and not on the hill tells me your sled does not run that great never has.lol because you just cant tune at home properly. Oh by the way John force has a TEAM get his sh!t running before the race and where there racing not at home.Why? because you just dont. All bs a side you asked a question and i think you got your answer its just not what you wanted to hear.

RB3

PASSSED YOU said:

how to use the rbi properly not understanding maps and what map is it running now

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What are you running for set up?
2 bar or 3 bar map sensor?
What fuel regulator?
Turbo?
Engine work?
Min and max voltage?
Stock injectors, drilled out or others?

The best way I have found to tune the RB3 is to use the trace function in the Pro software. You need to correlate what you see on your A/F gauge and tach to the RPM ranges on the map. I then make adjustments + or - depending on wheter its lean or rich. When you are running the sled on trace it shows you what RPM and what column you are running in. Forget the timing map until you have a clean running machine. I tune by feel a couple hundred rpm at a time, using the A/F as reference. My sled always runs rich at lower altitude with the RB3. The toughest area to tune is in the midrange when the boost starts to roll on. No two sleds run the same tune, best to learn how to make your own subtle adjustments to the base map your shop gives you. Hopefully they have it set up properly. The one thing I wish the RB3 has is a "bread crumb" function like the Vipec, it leaves a mark on the cell where the trace runs, then you can look back at the map and see where the trace has travelled. If you want to see what map you are running you need to download the map to a computer that has Rapid Bike software. That map should have a name attached to it.

Good Luck

How to use Rapid bike software

Maybe this will help if anyone wants me to email the manual drop me a email and I will reply.
powderlites@cablelan.net

powderlites said:

Maybe this will help if anyone wants me to email the manual drop me a email and I will reply.
powderlites@cablelan.net

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I'll take it, you have my email. thx.

Duke