Old school, big power

Idcatman3 · Nov 11, 2016

mattymac said:
Yes, 2001 tcat ignition with TPS sensor on the CDI, 6 magnet flywheel.

on this setup the twin stator plate is used, tcat stator, and CDI

Scott is working on the twin (reprogram-able) CDI with altering the timing in the box itself to not have to mod the flywheel or the case itself moving the timing pickup sensor, if going this route you will have to run the twin stator as the plugs are different compared to the tcat setup.

Not so much working on, as have had working. That's how ours has run since we built it. I am working on getting more made, and modifying the timing curve so we don't have to re-key flywheels like matty did, or offset the timing sensor.

I'm not sure why kilili is hung up on the T-cats. I should really find a T-cat case and show the difference. Here's a ZRT 600 vs the big triple:

kiliki · Nov 11, 2016

i've had 2 of the 900 twins and ran BB and twin pipe ect. the power of the 900 is very impressive for sure. I have never rode a tcat 1000 just more curious than anything.
i have had the 600 triple tho.

Idcatman3 · Nov 11, 2016

kiliki said:
i've had 2 of the 900 twins and ran BB and twin pipe ect. the power of the 900 is very impressive for sure. I have never rode a tcat 1000 just more curious than anything.
i have had the 600 triple tho.

We ran T-cats for a few years before the 900 twin came out. They always wore us out by the end of the day. They were pretty much stock though. This 1500 isn't a lot heavier, due to no counter balance shaft, and makes a lot more power. The T-cat is an old motor, and it shows.

Zrt1200 · Nov 11, 2016

Idcatman3 said:
We ran T-cats for a few years before the 900 twin came out. They always wore us out by the end of the day. They were pretty much stock though. This 1500 isn't a lot heavier, due to no counter balance shaft, and makes a lot more power. The T-cat is an old motor, and it shows.

I agree, The old T-cat motor is a good motor but its a old design and its Heavy. You can make some big power out of the old T-cat though. Our latest Prostock 1018cc based T-cat engine with Hooper cylinders and a Twister 71mm stroker crankshaft builds 278HP @ 9400Rpms. That's with Jaws pipes & and MSD total loss ignition designed for 500 to 660ft.

You can get more power with longer stroke engines for the T-cat but the cranks are not reliable for all winter long once you get past 71mm stroke IMO. This build has me really thinking of building one. I would like to know more on how the ignition is going to work out.

Idcatman3 · Nov 11, 2016

Zrt1200 said:
I agree, The old T-cat motor is a good motor but its a old design and its Heavy. You can make some big power out of the old T-cat though. Our latest Prostock 1018cc based T-cat engine with Hooper cylinders and a Twister 71mm stroker crankshaft builds 278HP @ 9400Rpms. That's with Jaws pipes & and MSD total loss ignition designed for 500 to 660ft.

You can get more power with longer stroke engines for the T-cat but the cranks are not reliable for all winter long once you get past 71mm stroke IMO. This build has me really thinking of building one. I would like to know more on how the ignition is going to work out.

Our reprogrammed ignition worked flawlessly. The only change we are doing for this year is using the EFI crank, and putting the 900 twin EFI flywheel hub into the T-cat flywheel.

Many other people who've done this motor have used the T-cat ignition with no issues. I wouldn't hesitate to do that either.

mattymac · Nov 11, 2016

Idcatman3 said:
Not so much working on, as have had working. That's how ours has run since we built it. I am working on getting more made, and modifying the timing curve so we don't have to re-key flywheels like matty did, or offset the timing sensor.

I thought you were working on getting a program that put XX degrees of initial spark timing delay/retard to the whole timing curve to not even have to move the timing sensor or re-key the flywheel?

Idcatman3 · Nov 12, 2016

mattymac said:
I thought you were working on getting a program that put XX degrees of initial spark timing delay/retard to the whole timing curve to not even have to move the timing sensor or re-key the flywheel?

That I am still working on, but it'll end up running the same as we've got now.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

KMMAC · Nov 12, 2016

Can't wait for a full write up step by step. Loved my zrt 8, but not the counter balance shaft, lost one and that was it. I have an M chassis that would love to have this triple implant.

Idcatman3 · Nov 13, 2016

Anyone looking to do this, there are currently 10 crankcases from D&D on eBay, built for this application:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/D-D-POWER-S...888241?hash=item23758ad571:g:4YoAAOSwDNdVkaik

KMMAC · Nov 16, 2016

WOW, are they based off the efi case?

Idcatman3 · Nov 16, 2016

KMMAC said:
WOW, are they based off the efi case?

Those are based off the carb case, modified to put an older Thundercat timing sensor in them. You can just slap a T-cat ignition on and run the thing with no changes necessary. Easy way to get into one.

icr · Nov 16, 2016

What does one of these weigh compared to a watercraft triple?

KMMAC · Nov 17, 2016

crank

Idcatman3 said:
Those are based off the carb case, modified to put an older Thundercat timing sensor in them. You can just slap a T-cat ignition on and run the thing with no changes necessary. Easy way to get into one.

So two 900 twin cranks will be needed to build a triple, correct? Will the t-cat fly wheel throw any weird vibes to the crank? I like the idea of using a triple ignition, takes some of the guess work out. What about ignition durability the t-cats were pretty good weren't
they? I imagine three single aftermarket pipes for the exhaust.
Doing the math, how much bottom end porting would need to be done to run
the 1010 cylinders? Will the stock 900 twin carbs flow enough, or will boring them be necessary? I have more questions but will stop now.........
Thanks for the advice...

Zrt1200 · Nov 17, 2016

Any updates on your build??? I have been doing a ton of reading in between hunting this week.

Idcatman3 · Nov 17, 2016

KMMAC said:
So two 900 twin cranks will be needed to build a triple, correct? Will the t-cat fly wheel throw any weird vibes to the crank? I like the idea of using a triple ignition, takes some of the guess work out. What about ignition durability the t-cats were pretty good weren't
they? I imagine three single aftermarket pipes for the exhaust.
Doing the math, how much bottom end porting would need to be done to run
the 1010 cylinders? Will the stock 900 twin carbs flow enough, or will boring them be necessary? I have more questions but will stop now.........
Thanks for the advice...

Yup, two 900 cranks, re-phased to 120 degrees. The 2000+ T-cat flywheel (stamped FP9108) is the same body as the 900 twin carb flywheel. Just has three triggers on it instead of two, and the keyway is in a different spot. So it's balanced the same as the twin. We haven't noticed any weird vibrations. It runs much smoother than our twins. Correct with 1.5 sets of twin pipes. We used SLP pipes, Mattymac is using Jaws. We didn't do any porting on our case, but we're only running the 975 kit. We also used stock 40mm carbs just like on the twin. I believe Mattymac did the same.

KMMAC · Nov 18, 2016

So do you use the whole t-cat ignition? Stator, trigger, is there any difference in coils, I know with the fuel today
more spark is better.

Zrt1200 · Nov 19, 2016

I called D&D powersports and talked to Dale on those cases on Ebay. Also they are the same ones the CPC/Cutlers is selling. He told me the cases are set up for the older NCI ignitions from 93-97 off of the Zrt800/T-Cat 900. Its a bolt on and go with the older ignitions. With the NCI ignition you do not need to re-key the flywheel either as they have more timing built into the flywheel to begin with. The older NCI flywheel has 4 magnets VS NOI 6 magnets.

NCI=Normally Closed Ignition. NOI=Normally Open Ignition.

He also told me the cases on ebay have the magnetic pick up sensor location set up for the NCI ignition so you do not need to move it. So all you need is a old style NCI ignition and bolt it on and GO.

FYI, As far as I know the coils are the same from the ZRT600, ZRT800, & T-Cat from 93-02. Heck I put a 93 T-cat coil on my kids 87 Suzuki 125 4 stroke quad years ago and it worked great. Pretty much a coil is a coil. A coil does not know the difference between NCI VS NOI ignitions systems.

One thing to remember with the NCI ignition is you can not have the timing curve reprogrammed like you can using the ZR CDI & re-keying the flywheel from a 98 & newer ZRT800/T-Cat 1000.

Another thing to remember is if you are going to use a Zrt/T-cat ignition you want a ZR carb crankshaft so the flywheel will go on. Not a EFI crankshaft.

Zrt1200 · Nov 19, 2016

I have done a bunch of checking on aftermarket top ends. One of the things I learned is if you want Real big power Hooper has/had?? a 1100cc pump gas top end that has bigger transfer ports and the case needs to be machined to match. I believe the D&D 1010 was the same way?? Another thing you can do to get more power is to have your crankshaft balanced so you can spin more RPM's to eliminate crank harmonics past 8100Rpm's.

Hooper Race ZR1000 puts out 225+ HP out of the twin but thats up at 9100-9300Rpms. The stock cranks wont take that many RPM's for very long at all with out being balanced.

KMMAC · Nov 19, 2016

changes

Zrt1200 said:
I have done a bunch of checking on aftermarket top ends. One of the things I learned is if you want Real big power Hooper has/had?? a 1100cc pump gas top end that has bigger transfer ports and the case needs to be machined to match. I believe the D&D 1010 was the same way?? Another thing you can do to get more power is to have your crankshaft balanced so you can spin more RPM's to eliminate crank harmonics past 8100Rpm's.

Hooper Race ZR1000 puts out 225+ HP out of the twin but thats up at 9100-9300Rpms. The stock cranks wont take that many RPM's for very long at all with out being balanced.

This changes things for me. I have an M1000 with 300 miles on it and was going to tinker with putting carbs on it. Not now, I am going to strip out that engine and everything that goes with it slp pipe set and boondocker box and move on to one of these triples. So it should still be possible to advance the timing on the older triple ignition right? Also, does the stator from the triple bolt right in?

Idcatman3 · Nov 19, 2016

KMMAC said:
This changes things for me. I have an M1000 with 300 miles on it and was going to tinker with putting carbs on it. Not now, I am going to strip out that engine and everything that goes with it slp pipe set and boondocker box and move on to one of these triples. So it should still be possible to advance the timing on the older triple ignition right? Also, does the stator from the triple bolt right in?

Stator from the triple fits right on the 900 twin carb stator plate.

I've never seen anything this big put in a M-series. The only chassis I've seen them in so far is a King Cat. I'd love to see one in something newer.

From what I understand (And I'll know more in the next couple days) you should be able to use a newer T-cat ignition as well, although I don't believe they are re-programmable either.

With the ignition I'm using, we should be able to get custom programs made. You can always adjust a little by slotting the timing sensor itself and moving it.

Old school, big power

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