1/2 ton and sled deck, one more time

NHguy said:

I have a 2013 F150 supercab with an 8 ft bed. It has the max tow package, ecoboost engine, heavy duty payload package on 7 lug wheels. I know it's rated for 2300 lbs. Does anyone else have a similar set up? Have they tried a deck? I know I'll get jumped on by those who don't read into this all the way, and will tell me I'm way over gvwr, but it shouldn't be. Any idea?

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Last winter I put a deck on my 95' Ford 150 single cab, long bed with the camper package( back then it was referred to as being a heavy half). With two sleds and no Airbags the truck did fine and sat level. IMO you should be good to go, if it sways a little too much then add some air bags. FYI before I bought my current used diesel I had planned on buying the exact truck that you have and leaving a deck in it for 7 months out of the year.
Mark

Whether it is just under or just over rated capacity, my concern would not be the amount of weight.
My concern would be the location of the weight.

The original post indicated that this is a 8' bed which helps a bunch.

This set up on a short box and the effect it has on the handling is significantly magnified.

Picture a top-heavy camper which protrudes far behind the bed of the pick-up & consider how ill-handling they are.

Drive accordingly & I don't think you would need to expect any problems.

However, should you happen to lose control, the likelihood of roll-over far greater than if the load was properly placed.

Simple geometry.

Mafesto said:

Whether it is just under or just over rated capacity, my concern would not be the amount of weight.
My concern would be the location of the weight.

The original post indicated that this is a 8' bed which helps a bunch.

This set up on a short box and the effect it has on the handling is significantly magnified.

Picture a top-heavy camper which protrudes far behind the bed of the pick-up & consider how ill-handling they are.

Drive accordingly & I don't think you would need to expect any problems.

However, should you happen to lose control, the likelihood of roll-over far greater than if the load was properly placed.

Simple geometry.

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Good point, but you have to remember the majority of the weight is in the bulkhead which centers it in the pick-up! IMO it is somewhat of an illusion that the load is top heavy as the mass is low. That being said, I would not go any shorter than a 6 foot bed.
As has been mentioned before, in adverse conditions, you are much better off with a sled deck then a trailer whipping you around on ice! I don't see where it makes much difference if you lose control with a deck or a trailer. A wreck is a wreck!

BHPete said:

Good point, but you have to remember the majority of the weight is in the bulkhead which centers it in the pick-up! IMO it is somewhat of an illusion that the load is top heavy as the mass is low.

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I absolutely dis-agree.
The deck being mounted above the bed rails automatically raises cg at least 20" (and I'm being conservative there)

Then let's say the deck & sleds weigh 2,000 lbs
Very little of that weight is forward of the rear axle (on anything shorter than a 8' bed) which now make the bed an actual lever, and we can all understand how moving the weight on a lever affects actual load.
Now the truck behaves like actual load is say 3,000 lbs if properly placed.

This truly is simple geometry.
If the person doing this fully understands what is happening, I think it is fine.
But I shake my head at you keyboard jockeys that say because Bubba or Zeek has done it for years that it will not adversely affect the handling....is most certainly will.
So when somebody asks for advice, I think it is terribly irresponsible to lead them down a potentially dangerous path.

Sorry for being longwinded.

Mafesto said:

I absolutely dis-agree.
The deck being mounted above the bed rails automatically raises cg at least 20" (and I'm being conservative there)

Then let's say the deck & sleds weigh 2,000 lbs
Very little of that weight is forward of the rear axle (on anything shorter than a 8' bed) which now make the bed an actual lever, and we can all understand how moving the weight on a lever affects actual load.
Now the truck behaves like actual load is say 3,000 lbs if properly placed.

This truly is simple geometry.
If the person doing this fully understands what is happening, I think it is fine.
But I shake my head at you keyboard jockeys that say because Bubba or Zeek has done it for years that it will not adversely affect the handling....is most certainly will.
So when somebody asks for advice, I think it is terribly irresponsible to lead them down a potentially dangerous path.

Sorry for being longwinded.

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100% correct on all points.

Under 10k may be a different set of rules as far as the DOT is concerned but as far as insurance goes overloaded is overloaded. Sound like the OP will be legal on this set up but most and I emphasize MOST half tons are very overloaded with a deck and 2 sleds.

And again just because someone has done it for years doesn't mean its smart.

You are entitled to your opinion just like anybody else, but you are more than welcome to come for a ride!
That deck is no more top heavy then a slide in camper so I guess we will agree to disagree!
As far as keyboard jockeys go, I grew up ranching just west of you! Trust me, I have ran more adverse loads in crappy conditions than your average bear! Now think about this. We had one of the first goods necks in the country, long before dullys, pulled by a 74 4 door 1 ton Dodge, 26' steel Stodard (heavy), running the show cattle circuit (read loaded). It was perfectly normal then because that was the technology we had and nobody gave it a second thought? Now we have far better and safer and capable equipment than we ever had, and people want yo pick this apart?
The fact that you have over 5,000 posts makes me think that you spend more time behind the keyboard than riding a snowmobile, so to that I say,
"shut-up and ride!":face-icon-small-win

BHPete said:

That deck is no more top heavy then a slide in camper so I guess we will agree to disagree!

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Actually that was my comparison, so I think that means we agree on that point.

Don't get so riled up, I never said "Don't do it".
I said that if someone comes on here asking for advice, don't blow smoke up their azz. Tell them all of the benefits & potential pitfalls.
2000 lbs placed higher & further rearward than what vehicle was designed for will affect the handling of said vehicle. That does not translate into "Don't do it", it simply means it will affect how it handles.

It's all good man.

Mafesto said:

Actually that was my comparison, so I think that means we agree on that point.

Don't get so riled up, I never said "Don't do it".
I said that if someone comes on here asking for advice, don't blow smoke up their azz. Tell them all of the benefits & potential pitfalls.
2000 lbs placed higher & further rearward than what vehicle was designed for will affect the handling of said vehicle. That does not translate into "Don't do it", it simply means it will affect how it handles.

It's all good man.

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Sorry! I get tired of all the weight nazis that post before thinking! We are snowmobilers here, we are supposed to push the limits!
And yes, not every half ton will handle it, but as has been pointed out, the OPs payload rating is equal to the 06 Dodge 3/4 ton payload rating, but you wouldn't give the 3/4 ton a second thought!
Personally, my GVWR is 8500. Pick-up weighs 6,000. 2 XPs, deck, gear, and bodies. I am good before a higher rated tire or air-bags!
The bottom line is, know your weights, do your math, and let her buck!

For sure!

Poached this off another forum, but feel it is applicable to this situation and seems to shed light on the "legalities" of things. Now that I have read it I do recall when I ran commercial plates that you could register to what weight capacity you wanted, obviously the heavier you went the more it cost, but you do not want to get caught over your registered weight rating. Also note that this is a question posted and replied to by Canadian standards.

Originally Posted by xxxxxx
I hear a lot of people talking about trailer weights, overloaded trucks, etc. but has anyone actually been pulled over by the Ministry or by the cops for a weight check? If you were overloaded than what were you charged with? Has anyone been in an accident and had their insurance pulled for being overloaded? Has anyone actually talked to the M of T to get their take on overloaded private vehicles vis a vis travel trailers (hint; I have talked to 2 so far). Why ask? Why not ask. I want to know and maybe others do to.
Well, just for the sake of posting the information- I will put up exactly what the response was that my buddy gave me when I messaged him about this:

"It is not something we do. Transpot Compliance on the other hand do have scales and do vehicle weight ect...that is more their mandate than ours. However, we as a national police force do enforce and lay charges regarding any contravention of any Act. I do not pull over a vehicle for the sole purpose to determine its weight. I am busier with really bad guys in the area"

He's an RCMP member. Now, if you go through the Government information, you will see that the Ministry of Highways and Transportation (Transport Compliance) only has information on commercial vehicles. The reason behind this is because the private vehicles are actually governed by SGI here. SGI's information online regarding vehicle weights and regulations can be found here:

http://www.sgi.sk.ca/individuals/reg.../capacity.html

Pretty sparse, isn't it? My wife is an insurance broker- has been for years. She says that the rule here is- 2xGVWR is the maximum weight you can be, no matter the GCWR on your vehicle. You are insured accordingly, and you are required to obtain a special addition to your license for weight (for example I boost mine to 14,000lbs) which is really more of a tax than anything for road maintenance. 14,000lbs gives me room since that is more than 2x my GVWR.

Transport Compliance guidelines differ from province to province here. But, I think it was said best in his response: "I do not pull over a vehicle for the sole purpose to determine its weight. I am busier with really bad guys in the area"

This went on a bit further with him as well- but to paraphrase, his mandate is public safety. If he saw a vehicle that was grossly overloaded, and was wallowing and wandering around and didn't seem in control, he would absolutely pull it over based on the safety of the public at large and at that time, would get Transport Compliance involved in order to assess the charges he was allowed to lay. It's all common sense. If they (Transport Compliance or the RCMP) had the mandate of policing all of the private vehicles for weight compliance, they would be pulling over EVERY farmer in Saskatchewan. It's tough to tell what is actually overloaded. A vehicle with a travel trailer on ball might actually have less of a load than the next half ton with a bed full of parts heading to the field.

Me thinks the above is a big ol' cup of STFU for the weight nazis!:brokenheart::tape2:

BHPete said:

Me thinks the above is a big ol' cup of STFU for the weight nazis!:brokenheart::tape2:

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This was poached off of another forum as well.... believe whatever you want BHPete. But at what point does giving out advice to total strangers that you have no idea their level of safety or expertise become more about you thumping your chest and less about just giving good sound advice.

Quote:

Well, after almost a year has passed since my buddy lost control of his FS3000 toy hauler being pulled by his F-250 coming down Sierra pass. He had sway bars and bags. The trailer swayed somehow and took over the control of his tow rig. He ended up smashing into another vehicle and the passenger in the other was killed and the driver injured.

The highway patrol cited him for hauling the trailer with a tow vehicle that was not rated for the weights of the trailer even though he was not too loaded up. The injured sued him big time, the insurance company disowned him due to the fact that he was improperly rigged and was "using his vehicle for purposes not intended by the manufacturer" even though they insured both vehicles.

He is awaiting trial for manslaughter, lost a civil suit for 1.2 million dollars, of which he was able to get 300,000 dollars from his insurances company sold his home, toys and vacation property to pay for it.

His wife divorced him and he is probably going to do some time.

Bottom line is the man is broke, lost his wife, affected PERMANENTLY the life of another man, and killed a woman all because he didn't want to spend another few grand for the right sized tow vehicle.

Moral of this lesson: BE WARNED! You idiots out there that know you are over limits or running too small size tow rigs, PRAY you never get in an accident!

If you have any questions about this, I know the whole story and would be happy to share if any of you want to know more.

It's not chest thumping! You want legalities I gave you legalities! Go ahead and check into commercial plates with the state of South Dakota? I think that you will find that I am correct in saying that you purchase your load rating! Nobody is forcing you to do anything, but you will be PROPERLY informed! Stop being so fixated on the fender badging and use your head and look at the load rating sticker! If yours is close to 1,500 or less, and you are contemplating doing this, then I guess you have some choices to make?

Although your story is sad and may be true, I would doubt that the accident could have been avoided had he been in a 1ton, 2ton, or 3ton! Ice and 28' enclosed trailer don't get along so well! That trailer is just a big old tail throwing the dog around!

Come on man, you live in SD! You know what our Highways are like when you add snow and wind to the mix! And if you have not seen it, you are either nieve, sheltered, or both?

I have picked up, worked on, and come across enough wrecks in my time, to know that some things, despite whatever preventative steps, can not be avoided! Something's just defy logic! I have picked up a 30' TT out of the ditch after they exploded from fish-tailing while being towed by a blazer in the rain. Perfectly legal, but not the best choice! And yet, there are still thousands upon thousands of these thing going up and down the highway! You only have to see one 9 year old dead in the ditch for lack of a seat belt, and the mother who was walking at the scene, whom you helped package, die 2 days latter from a blood clot! Passenger compartment was intact and would have been survivable if seat belts had been used!

So, before you come after me again, you may want to re-read this thread, because we have established that the OP is within his rated load limit being equal to a 3/4 ton Dodge as one example. If your half ton Chevy or Dodge is not rated as such, then you are using the wrong tool!

Unfortunately you come across as a pussifyed American who thrives on the "Chicken Little" effect which is part of the problem that we have in this country. Which really makes me wonder exactly what you are doing on a snowmobile forum? To follow your mindset one would have to stay within the falsified safety of your home, only to occasionally venture out to Wal-Mart or Perkins only to get run over by a bus while crossing the street!

With the deck and two sleds you might be under on your gvw, but you will be over on individual axle weights. A sharp DOT officer would weigh each axle.