G
2013 Cats - Belt Concerns Fixed???
- Thread starter TJ427
- Start date
Going West, you maybe correct. I have heard that the 2013 has the 19/50, can't substantiate that though. I do know that gearing these things down helps with their performance significantly. As has been stated before, - 50 or 60 degrees in belt/clutch temps just by going to a 20 tooth gear on top.
2013 evolution
from a cusory look at the 13 display models and some question and answer from cat reps.
1. no clutch fan and clutch cover was not 2012 without plastic
2. 2.6 pc on every model M sled no earlier style Pc available in M series, 013 brochures in error or thinking has evolved ( corporate schmoooze way of talking about mistakes ) narly looking sumbitch, if belt issues haven't been ironed out this increased traction with cut old belt life in half.
3. lower gearing on 800's......not sure what combo but appears to be not just a 20 top.........some vague answers here...... can't say for sure everyone understood gearing issue.
4. some mod and refinement on secondary that needs attention to keep the belt from ............hunting / pinching and causing excess heat / deflecting belt shape, not real sure or satisfied with answers there but cat found something that warrants modification.
5. different mitubishi belt, not sure if same as new update but I took the conversation to mean a belt number we haven't seen yet
6. I could not see any motor mount updates. rep knew of no plans for a change. However the motor mount rubber changed every two years on M8's from 07-011 and know one knew in advance or cared much later while it was improved running and better motor mount life each year. So I would bet some different parts will be in the crate in the fall and cat isn't even sure just yet what parts will be in stock when fall production commences.
7. best looking cat for me was most over looked, get 153 std with coil overs and update steering. can't wait for float facination to pass.
from a cusory look at the 13 display models and some question and answer from cat reps.
1. no clutch fan and clutch cover was not 2012 without plastic
2. 2.6 pc on every model M sled no earlier style Pc available in M series, 013 brochures in error or thinking has evolved ( corporate schmoooze way of talking about mistakes ) narly looking sumbitch, if belt issues haven't been ironed out this increased traction with cut old belt life in half.
3. lower gearing on 800's......not sure what combo but appears to be not just a 20 top.........some vague answers here...... can't say for sure everyone understood gearing issue.
4. some mod and refinement on secondary that needs attention to keep the belt from ............hunting / pinching and causing excess heat / deflecting belt shape, not real sure or satisfied with answers there but cat found something that warrants modification.
5. different mitubishi belt, not sure if same as new update but I took the conversation to mean a belt number we haven't seen yet
6. I could not see any motor mount updates. rep knew of no plans for a change. However the motor mount rubber changed every two years on M8's from 07-011 and know one knew in advance or cared much later while it was improved running and better motor mount life each year. So I would bet some different parts will be in the crate in the fall and cat isn't even sure just yet what parts will be in stock when fall production commences.
7. best looking cat for me was most over looked, get 153 std with coil overs and update steering. can't wait for float facination to pass.
G
"Let's put a fan on it!" "No, lets take the fan off."
" Let's try these motor mounts!" " No, let's try these."
" Gear it down maybe?" " I don't know, let's try it this year"
" Wanna try a different belt this year too?" " Let's ask the wife."
" Do you think it makes a difference if the rollers both touch the helix?" " I don't know for sure, Do you know anything about sheave angles?" "Sheave what?"
" Hey speaking of wife, mines 'bin giving me a hard time lately. I guess it's all the talk at the salon lately about the 800 belts." " Mine too, sheesh, like they think it's easy or something. I need a hug." Hey I know, let book in some testing?" Ya, let do it, but I don't want to go someplace that only has house wine, Okay?" "Sounds good. let's go back to the place with that delicious pheasant and brandy-butter sauce!" "Mmm, mmm, mmm, but I get the heated seat this time." " No I do!" "No I do!!" "Alright, but fair is fair, I get to pay the bill and tip the waitress, Okay?" "Great! Don't let me forget my Nintendo this time."
Engineering at it's finest.
You would think if it was true that they had perfected this set-up from 4yrs of testing that any production problems because of bad parts would be real simple to find.
Or, maybe it is as designed.
"Will more grip from the track make for better belt life?" "Let's try it!"
Remember, "The amazing new TCL will keep C to C and alignment perfect at all times, keeping the belt temps down, belt life longer and wallets fatter!"
Fool me once.....
" Let's try these motor mounts!" " No, let's try these."
" Gear it down maybe?" " I don't know, let's try it this year"
" Wanna try a different belt this year too?" " Let's ask the wife."
" Do you think it makes a difference if the rollers both touch the helix?" " I don't know for sure, Do you know anything about sheave angles?" "Sheave what?"
" Hey speaking of wife, mines 'bin giving me a hard time lately. I guess it's all the talk at the salon lately about the 800 belts." " Mine too, sheesh, like they think it's easy or something. I need a hug." Hey I know, let book in some testing?" Ya, let do it, but I don't want to go someplace that only has house wine, Okay?" "Sounds good. let's go back to the place with that delicious pheasant and brandy-butter sauce!" "Mmm, mmm, mmm, but I get the heated seat this time." " No I do!" "No I do!!" "Alright, but fair is fair, I get to pay the bill and tip the waitress, Okay?" "Great! Don't let me forget my Nintendo this time."
Engineering at it's finest.
You would think if it was true that they had perfected this set-up from 4yrs of testing that any production problems because of bad parts would be real simple to find.
Or, maybe it is as designed.
"Will more grip from the track make for better belt life?" "Let's try it!"
Remember, "The amazing new TCL will keep C to C and alignment perfect at all times, keeping the belt temps down, belt life longer and wallets fatter!"
Fool me once.....
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G
50 fits fine
19/50 sure does make the bottom end feel a lot stronger
I'm running 20/49 and like it. I'm interested to try the 19/50 next year.
G
I would not go any smaller then a 20 top with a 13 wide chain, and 19 top with a 15 wide. Also when running these small top gears you should change you chain every year, these cases do not hold up to well to broken chains and they are not cheap.
Can someone please start making 15 wide top gears for the PC8's so we can run some lower gearing and still have a little chain reliability left.
Can someone please start making 15 wide top gears for the PC8's so we can run some lower gearing and still have a little chain reliability left.
I
Maybe I'll keep the 20 on top and go to a 50 bottom next. That 19/50 sure seems like a big change from 21/49. Has anyone done a bunch of experimenting with different secondary springs yet? Everyone seems to have picked up on dropping to the 20 tooth top gear. I've heard of/witnessed/raced lots of different primary combos that people have tried; some good some not so good. But have not heard of alot of time/testing put into different secondary combos with the stock secondary, other than a few guys changing to the orange Cat spring.
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...47-wtf-where-did-catf1000sp-thread-go-22.html
thanks guys, i will not be stopped from making these new cats perfect.
If cat don't i will have all the info needed to do just that.
Had a wierd thing happen yesturdayand today, i have been testing the clutches heat every time i stop trail side, like anywhere from 10 miles to 30 miles in different ways of riding the sled.
I am not sure if the 083 belts have changed or not, but the temps have dropped 30 degrees f from one belt to another and its alot warmer out now, wierd to say the least
I have the temps down to 165 riding hard, there is something going on with a belt with over a few hundred miles, it is glazing and creating to much heat and i clean my clutches almost after every ride, been testing off trail and on trail.
The temps are lower than the xp doo i ride with a xp 600 etec and a renagade xp 800R both of those sleds have hotter clutches, it is so warm riding right now and there side panels are warping from the heat from the muffler.
My side panels are just fine, i know what them doo's need also, they are just lucky they have better belts, they cry a little because my cat gets better mpg's when warmer out than the 800R, it takes more fuel than mine and the 600 etec is almost the same as my 2012 f8, they just might be getting worse mpg's trying to stay up with me because i have more hp's and they have to drive harder to stay with me and the efi is better than doo's set up.
Testing more possible fixes for cat tomorrow and will report again soon.
Might be testing a 084 belt soon.
oh and no vented panels yet on my sled, i know i'm on to something with all this belt heat and why we see it on some sleds and not others.
I also have the secondary heat down to 119 in most riding styles.
stay tuned
Frank
__________________
thanks guys, i will not be stopped from making these new cats perfect.
If cat don't i will have all the info needed to do just that.
Had a wierd thing happen yesturdayand today, i have been testing the clutches heat every time i stop trail side, like anywhere from 10 miles to 30 miles in different ways of riding the sled.
I am not sure if the 083 belts have changed or not, but the temps have dropped 30 degrees f from one belt to another and its alot warmer out now, wierd to say the least
I have the temps down to 165 riding hard, there is something going on with a belt with over a few hundred miles, it is glazing and creating to much heat and i clean my clutches almost after every ride, been testing off trail and on trail.
The temps are lower than the xp doo i ride with a xp 600 etec and a renagade xp 800R both of those sleds have hotter clutches, it is so warm riding right now and there side panels are warping from the heat from the muffler.
My side panels are just fine, i know what them doo's need also, they are just lucky they have better belts, they cry a little because my cat gets better mpg's when warmer out than the 800R, it takes more fuel than mine and the 600 etec is almost the same as my 2012 f8, they just might be getting worse mpg's trying to stay up with me because i have more hp's and they have to drive harder to stay with me and the efi is better than doo's set up.
Testing more possible fixes for cat tomorrow and will report again soon.
Might be testing a 084 belt soon.
oh and no vented panels yet on my sled, i know i'm on to something with all this belt heat and why we see it on some sleds and not others.
I also have the secondary heat down to 119 in most riding styles.
stay tuned
Frank
__________________
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/foru...47-wtf-where-did-catf1000sp-thread-go-22.html
did some more testing today while out riding, running down the lake back and forth, riding in temps of about 50 or so degrees f no more belt and clutch heat, after drag racing the sled on the lake the secondary was only about 100 degrees and primary was 154 degrees. weird to say the least.
I think i may have had belts from a different batch to start the season off and the latest one i got was maybe changed a little or my new set up i am running has fixed the belt problem or like stated above, like i have been saying all season, very low mileage belt this 083, the longer you run them the hotter your clutches get, close to 1000 miles and you should thow them in the trash before they blow.
4" of snow and slush and the sled still blows by a 100 with it being 50 or so degrees out.
Just like i said before, the f8 went right by a xf1100t turbo like nothing on the lake. stock for stock
oh, 3900 miles and have not blown a belt yet, you just have to know when to take them off, sad mileage belt for sure.
I think i might have to give them a sanding and see if they come back to life.
frank
did some more testing today while out riding, running down the lake back and forth, riding in temps of about 50 or so degrees f no more belt and clutch heat, after drag racing the sled on the lake the secondary was only about 100 degrees and primary was 154 degrees. weird to say the least.
I think i may have had belts from a different batch to start the season off and the latest one i got was maybe changed a little or my new set up i am running has fixed the belt problem or like stated above, like i have been saying all season, very low mileage belt this 083, the longer you run them the hotter your clutches get, close to 1000 miles and you should thow them in the trash before they blow.
4" of snow and slush and the sled still blows by a 100 with it being 50 or so degrees out.
Just like i said before, the f8 went right by a xf1100t turbo like nothing on the lake. stock for stock
oh, 3900 miles and have not blown a belt yet, you just have to know when to take them off, sad mileage belt for sure.
I think i might have to give them a sanding and see if they come back to life.
frank
G
What kind of set up are you running to get your temps down like this. Please list mods you have done. greatly appreciated.... another thing has whats this ORANGE secondary clutch spring some people are trying. is it stiffer or not as stiff.? Thanks
G
If i could get 600 miles out of a belt ridiing off trail id be SOO HAPPY :face-icon-small-hap
went riding with her like 2 weeks ago. she is awesome.
