860 bb tuning

sledsrock · Apr 13, 2011

TurboJamie said:
So ALL gas in his area is 87 eh lmao you just get better and better, give it up. Notice zero BB talk around hmmm wonder why. Again your stuff didn't work which is supposed to be PROVEN gas and go so now ALL gas in his area is 87 hahah good one. Is that what you tell all your customers well if it doesn't go your gas is only 87?

Hey TJ where ya been? I've missed all your knowledge....lol!

:nono:What BB talk would you like to discuss? I know how mine stacks up against the 800 Etec 163 and a full mod Trygstad 800, (full mod = 112 octane at 10K, twin pipes, high compression, :blabla: blah, blah, blah) and when I mean stacks up I'm talking about the steep and deep and no track sniffen either! Better fuel mileage than the Trygstad and not as good as the etec.

Maybe the BB talk is quiet because we are satisfied? :shocked:

I know my SHR860 exceeded all my expectations! I will say this though, going BB may not be for everyone. It does take some tuning, and the knowledge of how to tune. One needs to be able to understand what the motor/set-up is telling you and adjust from there. What works great for one may not work great for another (too many variables), we all have our own preferences and expectations. Some of us are very picky and others just want to gas and go. If a little time is spent tuning the results will pay off.

It's obvious you have a dislike for BJ, that's really too bad as he is a good guy and goes up and beyond to help anyone in need!

Red-eye · Apr 13, 2011

TurboJamie said:
So ALL gas in his area is 87 eh lmao you just get better and better, give it up. Notice zero BB talk around hmmm wonder why. Again your stuff didn't work which is supposed to be PROVEN gas and go so now ALL gas in his area is 87 hahah good one. Is that what you tell all your customers well if it doesn't go your gas is only 87?

I have had gas tested. What was supposed to be 91 or 93 was 81 - 84 octane. Heard of way worse, from people I trust. If an engine needed good fuel and used this quality of fuel, it would not work well at all and would self destruct.
I have also seen many great tuners have alot of trouble on mods, to the point of giving up on an engine.(when the real trouble was bad fuel)
Nobody warn us that this junk (fuel) was on its way!
To try to discredit someone on here, especially one who seem to have such a good rep, only discredits your self.

fredw · Apr 13, 2011

need some real bad octane with a 13.5 to 1 head, i have ran farm fuel for thousands of miles with that octane and no problems, and that is 87

might want to try a different head

BIG JOHN · Apr 14, 2011

TJ- The funny thing is...I talk to Brian all winter long...I know he runs 87 (he tested the fuel)...so ....

fred- at the elevations your riding thats fine..I'm talking 87 octane at 500' with ethonal...I have tried more heads, compression ratios than you can imagine...and have altered them over the years as needed for different areas of the country/fuel...the funny thing is a drop of compression (from a 13-1 to 12.6) for the flatlanders didnt loose any HP...which simply means the computer is happy with the fuel/timing/rpm/jetting and head...if everyone could get TRUE/good pump 92...99% of people who had fuel related issues wouldnt have...I had the "other guys magic head" on my sled this winter...deto'd on pump gas...went back to what I know works...its NOT the head design, its the compression ratio to octane that will make it run safely...

I know what my engine can DOO...and I know that some had issues...and I did my best to take care of them/everyone...the funny part is they are ALL ported by the same guy, same head, same pistons, same instructions...I "mock up" every motor and verify every measurement before it leaves...when that motor leaves here its RIGHT...so what could be the variable here??? I could make a list of things if you like??-BJ

fredw · Apr 14, 2011

good info, sounds like you have done your testing on it

TurboJamie · Apr 14, 2011

I've got nothing more to add other than the obvious lack of testing on the available fuel in flatland territory. Build it to run on what people have available, for you guys 12:1 isn't or wasn't even an option because of the all mighty RKT 13:1 head that works everywhere. Same as Brian's case instead of jetting down buddy they like to be jetted down you should have known better.

swrev · Apr 14, 2011

SHR 860, sled runs awesome. You can tell when you get into bad fuel. 14.8 head. Mix a little race gas and never an issue, just as BJ talked about w/ me before the engine configuration was decided on. Just added a c3 belt drive. Now it's is a turbo contender. Etecs were running close before, just didn't have the torque. Biggest factor, clutching wasn't dialed w/ previous setup, seems perfect now. Other 860 and etec running against last weekend are no longer in the same ball park.

As far as the topic of this thread, sled is running full pins (weight?), 440ramps, shockwave around 45 degrees. 2.4 gear ratio. Shimmed .030 on stock needles, Boyeson reeds, 480 mains, fuel screw in 1/2 from stock. Could probably go smaller w/ mains, but don't feel comfortable w/out running egt's.

BIG JOHN · Apr 14, 2011

TurboJamie said:
I've got nothing more to add other than the obvious lack of testing on the available fuel in flatland territory. Build it to run on what people have available, for you guys 12:1 isn't or wasn't even an option because of the all mighty RKT 13:1 head that works everywhere. Same as Brian's case instead of jetting down buddy they like to be jetted down you should have known better.

The instructions clearly state 91-92...if your local fuel is ?? than the 12.6 has been an option since day one... fuel has changed over the years...the mighty 13-1 worked just fine in 2007/08...2009/10 not as much (made changes during the year to help all my customers)...2010/11 12.6-1 comp and my std. jet spec matched the fuel available (very few issues)...if you cant get good fuel than dont tell me you can...BJ

winter brew · Apr 14, 2011

John took good care of me when I had one of his 860's. I had deto/fuel issues so I simply ran more octane and never had another problem.
John swapped me domes so I could drop the comp. slightly (to the all mighty 13:1) , ended up selling the sled and it has been trouble free for the new owner all season on pump 91.
For every unhappy 860 owner, you will find 10 very happy....but that seems to be the ratio for anything to do with sleds.....even stockers!
From what I've seen, if there is a issue with one of his 860's, it's most likely caused by something out of his control, something completely unrelated to the good work John does.

papa bear · Apr 14, 2011

Red-eye said:
I have had gas tested. What was supposed to be 91 or 93 was 81 - 84 octane. .

Curiousity question. How/where do you get fuel tested? What kind of business does the testing? Can I find one of these type places near an airport?

There's no doubt in my mind that there's bad gas out there - and gas that sours in just a few weeks. Rode the little fan sled two weeks ago -it had sat 12 weeks (with stabilizer) since last used - ran horrible - sputtered - lower than low power. Put six gallons of fresh fuel in it and then it ran like a little singer sewing machine!

During xmas break I had to drain the summer fuel (stabilized) out of the little generator - fuel was milky white. Put fresh winter fuel in it and it fired right up!

Just because you might buy fuel consistently from one place - doesn't mean that station isn't susceptable to getting a load of bad gas.

It's frustrating as all get-out.

diamonddave · Apr 14, 2011

Somebodies Psychotic, Anti-depressant medication prescription needs to be renewed.

winter brew · Apr 14, 2011

diamonddave said:
Somebodies Psychotic, Anti-depressant medication prescription needs to be renewed.

John's not that bad once you get to know him. :beer;:face-icon-small-win

TurboJamie · Apr 14, 2011

BIG JOHN said:
The instructions clearly state 91-92...if your local fuel is ?? than the 12.6 has been an option since day one... fuel has changed over the years...the mighty 13-1 worked just fine in 2007/08...2009/10 not as much (made changes during the year to help all my customers)...2010/11 12.6-1 comp and my std. jet spec matched the fuel available (very few issues)...if you cant get good fuel than dont tell me you can...BJ

At least you have admitted and fixed the problem, however 12.6 was not an option before...and is still too much head. I see a few on DT with your engine that was less than stellar. One guys 700 was faster then your 860??? Imagine that...

BIG JOHN · Apr 14, 2011

TurboJamie said:
At least you have admitted and fixed the problem, however 12.6 was not an option before...and is still too much head. I see a few on DT with your engine that was less than stellar. One guys 700 was faster then your 860??? Imagine that...

LOL- the 700 was one of MY kits (SHR700HO built off of the 600HO)...and that 860...lets just say he did his own porting after he picked it up...unfortunatly...in the wrong direction...but hey...blame me, ya blame me for everything anyway...whats next global warming??-LOL...theres almost 200 of MY 860's out there...and your complaining about....1..2..maybe 3???

BTW- dont listen to guys like Paul (RoosterB)...he didnt spend a whole winter on one with no issues...BJ

FYI- the 12.6 has been an option since day one...thats the AK. dome...litterly 0' to 3000' elevation on 91...

Red-eye · Apr 14, 2011

I got the fuel tested through a friend of mine. He had connections on fuel and oil testing. I will try to find out as he was killed around the same time and things stopped after.
I had lots of trouble with engines and could not figure out why....The inconsistancies were not making sence. It was all fuel and the parts that bad fuel screwed up injectors, spark plugs, sensors etc.
Even Last week, I had 2 different mechanics ask me for help. One thought the engine was flooded and would not start. The other thought ignition and no start. I drained fuel and both started first pull. Neither could believe it was fuel and had tryed changing everything from mags to needle and seats.
I still see people jetting up or down to get an engine to run right and then going back to the original jetting and asking why. Same as fiddling with a tuning box, up down and back to same.............bad fuel!!!!!!!!!!!
And the US has had ethanol a long time, canada is just starting. Complain to your the people who are responsible, not to those who are trying to make engines run and didn't know what was coming. I never received a memo that fuel was shat!!!!

revx827 · Apr 15, 2011

Shut your piehole

TurboJamie said:
So ALL gas in his area is 87 eh lmao you just get better and better, give it up. Notice zero BB talk around hmmm wonder why. Again your stuff didn't work which is supposed to be PROVEN gas and go so now ALL gas in his area is 87 hahah good one. Is that what you tell all your customers well if it doesn't go your gas is only 87?

I live 2 miles from Brian.... Our gas is bad. I had to go from 13:1 on my 827 to 12.25.
You must not be the almighty tuner that you think you are. A stock bore 800r is a joke compared to a fair running 860. If you spent half the time tuning that you spend bashing the 860 maybe yours would have ran better.

fredw · Apr 16, 2011

where are you getting your fuel from that is so bad, we not far from you have the best fuel we can get, our factorys are regina and edmonton, calgary, and octane has always exceeded demand, i would think sparwood would come from the same factorys, might want to look into that

Red-eye said:
I got the fuel tested through a friend of mine. He had connections on fuel and oil testing. I will try to find out as he was killed around the same time and things stopped after.
I had lots of trouble with engines and could not figure out why....The inconsistancies were not making sence. It was all fuel and the parts that bad fuel screwed up injectors, spark plugs, sensors etc.
Even Last week, I had 2 different mechanics ask me for help. One thought the engine was flooded and would not start. The other thought ignition and no start. I drained fuel and both started first pull. Neither could believe it was fuel and had tryed changing everything from mags to needle and seats.
I still see people jetting up or down to get an engine to run right and then going back to the original jetting and asking why. Same as fiddling with a tuning box, up down and back to same.............bad fuel!!!!!!!!!!!
And the US has had ethanol a long time, canada is just starting. Complain to your the people who are responsible, not to those who are trying to make engines run and didn't know what was coming. I never received a memo that fuel was shat!!!!

Red-eye · Apr 16, 2011

fredw said:
where are you getting your fuel from that is so bad, we not far from you have the best fuel we can get, our factorys are regina and edmonton, calgary, and octane has always exceeded demand, i would think sparwood would come from the same factorys, might want to look into that

I have had no trouble at the local ESSO. Lots of trouble at Husky. I met a truck driver at the bulk station, he said that all gas will have ethenol soon (which would be now).
It is not as simple as it seems. The factory might be making good fuel. By the time it get to an engine, the quality has deteriated enough to have engine troubles. The tanks at stations are vented, Premium sales not selling fast enough to keep fresh, gas cans not sealed or stored for another three weeks, etc.
I have seen delivery guys put diesel in gas tanks at the gas station. I know of owners that pore fuel back in the tanks that have been drained from contaminated fuel tanks. I have heard of an over stock of summer fuel delivered into the winter. There is more to fuel than just octane.
The Fernie club tested fuel at the drag races. It was surprising whos was good and whos wasn't. Fernie bulk marked fuel (advertised for sleds) was as good as VP 111.
Last night a buddy of mine phoned to say his diesel that was parked for the winter, would not start. Filled the fuel filter housing with fresh diesel and varoom! My shop had a rash of fuel problems at least twice a year.

Idaho Slim · Apr 16, 2011

SHR 860, 09 163. 14.25:1 comp, 6000-10K' with no issues. I add 1 gal of 110 just to make sure the gas i get out of the gas pump is up to par. It is a runner. Pulls, 19.2 gms on clicker 3-4 @ 9000'. (No power there eh?)

IF you follow the adivce of the BUILDER of a SHR 860BB, and have some knowledge about tuning and you take the time to test on your own riding conditions, the results can be astounding, ........ but what do I know, I just sit at the bottom of the hill and talk.:face-icon-small-coo

btw .............. this sled regularly takes out PGT 8's on the mountain up to about 10lb of boost and in 500' drag Races has beaten handily Nyto 4 stroke Turbo's by 3-4 lengths.

TurboJamie · Apr 17, 2011

revx827 said:
I live 2 miles from Brian.... Our gas is bad. I had to go from 13:1 on my 827 to 12.25.
You must not be the almighty tuner that you think you are. A stock bore 800r is a joke compared to a fair running 860. If you spent half the time tuning that you spend bashing the 860 maybe yours would have ran better.

The all mighty tuner is the one you buy the kit from. BJ explicitly claims gas n go pump gas motors.

BJ Quotes

...jetting comes with kit, clutching recomendations including or I recomend the shock wave adj. helix...I can make it run on any fuel...just shipped one to canada with 12.6-1 compression instead of the std. low elevation 13-1...the 172 hp is stock exhaust and trail jetting...have the 2009-10 update done and I recomend the v-force reeds for the trail

The 860 jetting is the most consistant of all my BB kits..BJ

Its not the actual computer causing problems..its the water temp (the 860 makes more heat) and trying to run 13-1 comp (that worked just fine last on years fuel) on this years obviously ?? fuel...hence the change in actual compression ratio...plus the engine ice did more than anything to keep running temps in the "normal" or "full power" ecm mode...BJ

These definately sound like gas n go proven engines

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