Everybody see this??!!

Uh-oh...how were you able to see that post?

Did they open it up?

I don't know what you are talking about....

ruffryder said:

I don't know what you are talking about....

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When is the geek gathering with beer and meters taking place? Late September?

winter brew said:

Better/easier access for skiers to existing "sled free" (Wilderness) areas would be something that sledders would endorse.
I have no idea what some good launch points would be for skiers. WMC, what is your opinion? Are there existing roads that could be plowed that would give good/easy access for skiers? Would there be a need for a parking lot in these areas? Would this be an option that would satisfy alot of BC skiers vs closing existing shared use areas?...it would definatly give them more choice on WHERE they can ski.
It just seems with the amount of land already set aside for this, there must be a very simple, non-controversial and inexpensive solution.

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Exactly,
If backcountry skiers need more terrain without snowmobiles, the logical solution is to snowplow existing roads that provide closer access to legal wilderness areas, and to build a few more roads and trailheads that access Wilderness boundaries. Keep such access open in winter and we will automatically have all the non-motorized terrain we could ever ask for.

Sure, in some areas you can still hear a snowmobile, but overall we have a huge tract of prime backcountry around us. More than is even utilized.
Most importantly, demographics show an aging population with most of our population growth coming from other cultures that don't participate heavily in outdoor recreation, especially in the Winter! Thus, implementing extreme restrictions based on guesses about future growth could well be unnecessary. Certainly we must be conservative when caring for creation, but there is a difference between conservatism and fanaticism.

WMC..right now you have created a perception that you are a domestic terrorist. Nothing more than a small time thief trying to make a name for yourself. Why did you change your name from Rondondee to WMC?? You even say the same thing verbatum about the Hog Loppet that you posted last winter.

I have some new unconvential thoughts for you.

1. Apple Country Snowmobile Club should cease breaking trail for the Hog Loppet and having snowmobile volunteers there helping out. There Grooming program is highly subsidised by snowmobile registration funds. They have done this as an extremely generous gesture in friendship and as a public liason. Obviously it has not been appreciated and needs to stop as it has become a waste of Club resources and is not appreciated by the majority.

2. We as snowmobilers will politly share the groomed trails that you use for free. As a saftey concern we will only ride on the right side of the trail and you can use the left side.:devil:

3. Any rescue for a lost skier needs to be by other skiers only so as not to offend any other skiers that might be in the area.

4. Groomers have been saying that they dont have enough funds...well lets stop grooming the first 1/4th mile of all trails..just to save money!!


Note: For every very limited skier vs snowmobile story you concocture I can come up with one that involves disrespectful skiers just the same.. Any group of people will always have the good and some bad..but we can not and should not use that as a stereotype for all. While I was riding down from Mt Baker last winter Taylorstoys Father passed out while riding a brand new three day old sled. He has a small stomach that was created by doctors after his real one was taken during the VietNam Conflict. He fell short on his sugar intake unexpectedly and passed out...sled went off the trail he was lying in the trail.

I was FOS...two skiers were coming up with their dog. They were upset that we had a rope across the trail that they had to duck under. Crap I held it up for them and they didnt have to duck at all. I had marking flags on it and other snowmobile riders posted as saftey guys. We were winching his sled up from where it went off the trail and about 15 feet down the steep into a tree. At NO time did the skiers even ask if we could use some help (which we did) or if the old guy pale as a ghost sitting on the snow in the trail was ok or needed anything. I will say that EVERY snowmobiler that came by ndidnt just ask but just started helping out. I thought nothing of the skiers who just went about their business at the time and for the most part still dont but it goes to show that your collegues are not as proper and respectful as you would like to think. No crime with them just going about their business and not caring for if a 70plus year old guy was ok..just showing the facts here.

I slow down to almost a stall speed and wave to skiers...I dont get on the throttle until I am a ways away, yet at the same token I have only a few times had a skier that was even the least bit friendly.

BTW..Rondondee do you still think it is ok to park as close to the back of a snowmobile trailer or sled deck as you stated before?? Is that your idea of sharing?

It is obvious that you will seldom actually answer anybodys questions if they have one for you other than a bunch of copy and paste hooplala. You need to sell your beater sleds and just ski. If you skied enough you would lose weight. Maybe Ill see you at the Postoffice in Leavenworth sometime. :boxing:

sometime in september sounds good

diamonddave said:

When is the geek gathering with beer and meters taking place? Late September?

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Ah Dave..so you and Ruffy do have hot tub parties together. I didnt think it was true when I heard about them. Ruffy and Dave taking the spotlight away from Fordman and his buddy. Teasing!

WMC said:

"Many of your views are unpopular.

*couldn't resist..."

That was funny. And true!

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I do believe you were in-fact talking about your self here.
eep:

Deepdiver that is an excellent post more than 2 thumbs up.:face-icon-small-win

Poll:

How many snowmobilers would support the idea of their state providing skier access points to existing Wilderness areas via plowing existing roads to a point close to existing Wilderness boundaries?

How many snowmobilers would support having new FS roads constructed / plowed for this reason?

I would personally support both these ideas.

Van Epps said:

Poll:

How many snowmobilers would support the idea of their state providing skier access points to existing Wilderness areas via plowing existing roads to a point close to existing Wilderness boundaries?

How many snowmobilers would support having new FS roads constructed / plowed for this reason?

I would personally support both these ideas.

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No question this would be supported if the opposition would be satisfied with that...but if you look at the existing access and stated access points then it's not enough. WMC and his group ride sleds to the summer parking area for the Beverly/Bean area and that's just a short distance to the wilderness, but still not enough based on his current position. Although my winter evaluation will probably confirm Newtrouts comments of no real user conflict....

WMC said:

IMO, some other areas aside from the few, small winter non-motorized areas would help immensely with some of these issues. Skiers and snowmobilers need areas away from shared corridors where they are not in conflict.

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Skiers have plenty of those areas. They are called Wilderness, national parks, and even designated non-motorized areas in National Forests. Please do the world a favor and get your head out of the sand.

deepdiver said:

Note: For every very limited skier vs snowmobile story you concocture I can come up with one that involves disrespectful skiers just the same..

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The people that want to eliminate snowmobiling have been using this process (concocting "conflict" reports) for years. It will pay off for them in this upcoming FS revision. Environmental associations encourage their members to embellish / falsify / fabricate "conflict" reports. They are encouraged to report everything as a conflict, from having to hear a sled, having to see a sled, having smelled exaust, having their "experience" disrupted in any way by an ohv.

True "conflict" (physical altercation) does not happen often. The only examples I have seen of a true "conflict" was having a ski pole swung at me as I passed a skier at less than 10mph. I've seen skiers throw their poles in front of moving sleds. (I'm sure they later turn this pole into the FS as evidence of out of control sledders). We have all heard stories about ohv trailers being unhooked and set back onto the trailer ball, and the carnage that results.

These people are like spoiled children and will do anything and everything in their power; falsify accounts of conflict, exaggerate real situations, concoct stories of "conflict". They hope these "conflict reports" will result in the FS further restricting our sport. It looks like this ploy may work.

Unfortunately, we as OHV users need to begin reporting our misadventures (conflicts) to the FS as well. I do not like the idea of doing this myself, but the next time a pole is swung at me, I am cussed at, I see a truck / trailer vandalized or any other such thing, I will be reporting it to FS.

It seems hard for them to act as adults and be courageous enough to simply talk with folks. Instead, they sneer, smirk, belittle ohv users, fabricate "conflicts" and then run to the FS to complain.

End of Last Winter

From Randonee:

#51 03-21-2010, 02:25 PM
Randonnee
Currently: Not set. Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 49
Thanks: 11
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 0

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So long folks. Thanks for the good discussion. Some folks are kind of touchy, the goal was the discussion. Above I was referring to the previous post that stated "no tracks across the border," that is great. Also I was trying to illustrate that various folks are aware of this issue.

My wife and I have been following this. It is probably enough now, I should move on.

Thanks to snowmobile riders who obey Closures and respect Wilderness.

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I guess he wasn't serious......... Oh well. I'll post a pic of the fat azz so that you all know who he is/what he looks like for that parking lot discussion.

RuffRyder- just last march you were defending this DickHe*d..... (WMC aka. Randonee). Oh, how times change.