Axys Silber clutch heat

snowracer21 · Dec 4, 2017

17' Axys RMK Pro 155" w/ Silber @ 5psi. Installed the kit on a brand new sled...made sure to get a couple good heat cycles on the belt. I also washed the belt in warm soapy water, and also cleaned the clutch faces before the first ride.

At 50 miles, I blew the OEM belt. I felt it going and got stopped in time before it grenaded. I noticed after a decent pull ~5+ seconds WOT, I'd stop and feel the clutches, the primary was extremely hot, like, too hot to leave your hand on the clutch.

I'm running the supplied 76g weights, blew the belt at around 5'k. Max RPMs I saw was 8350.

I replaced the belt with the Gates Carbon (45c4553), and went up 2 grams to see if it would lower belt temps...but the clutch is still getting hot on WOT pulls! WTF?!

Also, the pic below is of my OEM belt, with LESS THAN 50 miles:

562xp · Dec 4, 2017

The supplied clutching will get you on the snow, but leaves a lot on the table. Most people have great success with TRS or Indy Specialties clutching.

Wheel House Motorsports · Dec 4, 2017

Also, consider a SLP torque arm, there is no real solid motor shimming/locating mechanism on the sleds. On boost the motor can move SOO much id be curious what your alignment is like under power, id bet its nothing special. Stock axys motor mounting/alignment is pretty hokey and some sleds are better then others, sounds like yours is one of the later.

I know the included clutching isn't the "best" available but blowing belts that fast is most likely something else at play as well. I know even stock AXYS I could get the stock clutching to fade SUPER bad and would blow belts ever 200 miles without a torque arm. Add power and I would have ended in a similar spot.

Also, what elevation you riding at? I do know below 5k riding areas Silbers included clutching really starts to show its weakness. If your pulling 76G at 5psi im betting your fairly low. If that is the case you may want to consider an Indy dan setup.

snowracer21 · Dec 4, 2017

Wheel House Motorsports said:
Also, consider a SLP torque arm, there is no real solid motor shimming/locating mechanism on the sleds. On boost the motor can move SOO much id be curious what your alignment is like under power, id bet its nothing special. Stock axys motor mounting/alignment is pretty hokey and some sleds are better then others, sounds like yours is one of the later.

I know the included clutching isn't the "best" available but blowing belts that fast is most likely something else at play as well. I know even stock AXYS I could get the stock clutching to fade SUPER bad and would blow belts ever 200 miles without a torque arm. Add power and I would have ended in a similar spot.

Also, what elevation you riding at? I do know below 5k riding areas Silbers included clutching really starts to show its weakness. If your pulling 76G at 5psi im betting your fairly low. If that is the case you may want to consider an Indy dan setup.

I'm gonna send him a PM, thanks for the suggestion.

I was at 5-6k. I was debating the SLP torque arm, but I read some guys claiming the Axys motor is supposed to flex a bit? Maybe I'll order one up and try it out. I'm not going to put up w/ blowing belts every 50 miles, thats for sure.

benltr · Dec 5, 2017

Look at TRS clutching tread. A lot of good info on :

-Clutch alignment
-Floating
-Belt to sheave cleanrance
-Primary, secondary, helix and weight suggestion
-etc.

I did 100% of what they suggest and i achieve to not break a belt in 8-9 ride. Normaly i blew a belt 2-3 rides easily...

JJ_0909 · Dec 5, 2017

One alternative to TRS or Indy Dan Clutching is what I ended up running to mitigate these problems. Its a whole lot easier and cheaper to install!

Suggestions...

1) Bump up your helix to something steeper. 44 degrees is about right.
2) Go to a slightly softer spring and drop 2 grams of weight. Try Green/pink
3) Put delrins on each side of your primary's spring. Run a pancake bearing on your secondary spring.
4) Make sure your deflection is good
5) Make sure you break in your belt semi-legit (EG, a few miles of trail riding!)
6) Make sure your clutches are clean.

tmberro · Dec 5, 2017

Snowracer21 - same problems tdbaugha and I had initially. As said before, review the TRS thread. One additional thing to note as I see it around the forum a lot is the use of a torque arm. Unless you know the measurement of how much the engine should be moving and set the stop for that, don't use one. The engines in these chassis are designed to flex into alignment. See for yourself with a straight alignment bar.

AKFULLTHROTTLE · Dec 5, 2017

4) Make sure your deflection is good

This does make a difference for sure

I have since moved to Indy Specialty on all my kits I sell here at low elevation. You can message me if you have any questions about them. Jon there can help you out if you decide to purchase a kit.

The above mentioned by JJ will help

Wheel House Motorsports · Dec 5, 2017

snowracer21 said:
I'm gonna send him a PM, thanks for the suggestion.

I was at 5-6k. I was debating the SLP torque arm, but I read some guys claiming the Axys motor is supposed to flex a bit? Maybe I'll order one up and try it out. I'm not going to put up w/ blowing belts every 50 miles, thats for sure.

Oh trust me, it still moves plenty even with a torque arm, it just at least sort of holds center to center. Without it, especially as motor mounts start to break in the center to center can easily pull in 1/4" plus under power and totally throw your clutch alignment off as well.

Stock sleds seem to come with a varying degree of alignment so its not just assuming as led is new so its good, ive seen some decent issues showing up on stock sleds. Now add power, obviously you can see where this is headed.

Also cleaning clutches and scotch-brite on the sheaves every 1-200 miles really helps keep the glazing down and helps the clutches biting the belt hard with far less slip/heat.

sumtinwong · Dec 5, 2017

it wont fix your problem by any means {your problem is covered above} but I would drop in some vents cheap,easy and will help keep the temps in check under the whole hood.

Spaarky · Dec 6, 2017

JJ_0909 said:
One alternative to TRS or Indy Dan Clutching is what I ended up running to mitigate these problems. Its a whole lot easier and cheaper to install!

Suggestions...

1) Bump up your helix to something steeper. 44 degrees is about right.
2) Go to a slightly softer spring and drop 2 grams of weight. Try Green/pink
3) Put delrins on each side of your primary's spring. Run a pancake bearing on your secondary spring.
4) Make sure your deflection is good
5) Make sure you break in your belt semi-legit (EG, a few miles of trail riding!)
6) Make sure your clutches are clean.

The best things in life are never easy... That's been my experience and it applies to sleds.

You SHOULD NOT run delrins in your primary. It affects your spring rate and can bind. You should just clean up the spring faces and clutch faces. At most use a thunder products glide washer.

If your still buying a helix, weights and a spring. Your not saving very much money over Indy Specialty set ups. I believe he has s set with 10 series tuck. Your clutches should be going out for proper balancing and shimming anyway.

Send your clutches to Indy Specialties and purchase one of their clutch kits that caters to your riding. You will save money and frustration in the long run.

rbk444 · Dec 6, 2017

Running blow hole w/ silber turbo 7psi spring,2016 163 track,approx.300 mi on stock belt,,no problems

xpspenziv · Dec 10, 2017

174 3'' @7# over 500 on same belt with tki belt drive. 27 top gear. Gear ratio is 2.33 now. TRS clutching and use Indy dan T3wieghts when I travel to higher elevation. Hardest is finding the original lightning wts.I just got my clutches back from Indy balanced.

Spaarky · Dec 10, 2017

If your using Indy Specialty weights, you should try/run his springs. They make adjustments for their weights compared to Tonys with the Lightning weights.

JJ_0909 · Dec 11, 2017

Spaarky said:
The best things in life are never easy... That's been my experience and it applies to sleds.

You SHOULD NOT run delrins in your primary. It affects your spring rate and can bind. You should just clean up the spring faces and clutch faces. At most use a thunder products glide washer.

If your still buying a helix, weights and a spring. Your not saving very much money over Indy Specialty set ups. I believe he has s set with 10 series tuck. Your clutches should be going out for proper balancing and shimming anyway.

Send your clutches to Indy Specialties and purchase one of their clutch kits that caters to your riding. You will save money and frustration in the long run.

I should have been more clear - I use Thunder Products Glide Washer - never considered a Delrin would be all that different?

Again, I've had great luck with the setup I posted above. I was seeking something that was easy on belts and performed to my liking. This did both. Hit RPM quickly, backshifts well, and I'm getting 500 miles+ to a belt. Is there performance left on the table? Absolutely! And if I had an extra $500-800, I'd consider giving it to ID for the full treatment.

But for those that just threw $3-4K at a turbo and want to put together a setup that works well and is easier on belts, what I am running will work without a question. I've set a lot of people up on it, and they too have been happy with it, including a few rental turbo sleds where belt life really mattered.

Cost:

Primary Spring: $25
Secondary Spring: $25
Helix: $100

You can use the adjustable weights that came with the kit. Honestly you can even just stick with the springs that came with the kit and swap to a steeper helix. This is the biggest thing that has helped belt life. I know, counter-intuitive, but it works.

Total cost ~$150 + Glide Washers if you want to run them.

Total cost of an Indy Dan kit ~$475+

Not really in the same ball bark!

Sage Crusher · Dec 11, 2017

xpspenziv said:
174 3'' @7# over 500 on same belt with tki belt drive. 27 top gear. Gear ratio is 2.33 now. TRS clutching and use Indy dan T3wieghts when I travel to higher elevation. Hardest is finding the original lightning wts.I just got my clutches back from Indy balanced.

You might be lower final gearing than 2.33 if your running your stock 7 drivers.

Spaarky · Dec 11, 2017

JJ_0909 said:
I should have been more clear - I use Thunder Products Glide Washer - never considered a Delrin would be all that different?

Again, I've had great luck with the setup I posted above. I was seeking something that was easy on belts and performed to my liking. This did both. Hit RPM quickly, backshifts well, and I'm getting 500 miles+ to a belt. Is there performance left on the table? Absolutely! And if I had an extra $500-800, I'd consider giving it to ID for the full treatment.

But for those that just threw $3-4K at a turbo and want to put together a setup that works well and is easier on belts, what I am running will work without a question. I've set a lot of people up on it, and they too have been happy with it, including a few rental turbo sleds where belt life really mattered.

Cost:

Primary Spring: $25
Secondary Spring: $25
Helix: $100

You can use the adjustable weights that came with the kit. Honestly you can even just stick with the springs that came with the kit and swap to a steeper helix. This is the biggest thing that has helped belt life. I know, counter-intuitive, but it works.

Total cost ~$150 + Glide Washers if you want to run them.

Total cost of an Indy Dan kit ~$475+

Not really in the same ball bark!

Not in the same ball park for runability either.

If you can't afford to do it right. You should stick to a stocker.... All these things should be done to a stock sled too.

BTW... If you don't think a delrin and glide washer are much different. Measure them ..... It's huge.

If you don't do it right. Your turbo sled will get embarrassed by a stocker. I have seen it many times.

Spaarky · Dec 11, 2017

Last question. If you spent the money for the turbo. Why wouldn't you spend the extra to make sure you got every last ounce out of your sled????? The last 10-20% is huge.

I don't want to be the guy in our group with a sled that runs.... Par. I know that.

Maybe it's me.... I am a little wrong in the head. I am never satisfied with a participation trophy.

JJ_0909 · Dec 11, 2017

Spaarky said:
Last question. If you spent the money for the turbo. Why wouldn't you spend the extra to make sure you got every last ounce out of your sled????? The last 10-20% is huge.

I don't want to be the guy in our group with a sled that runs.... Par. I know that.

Maybe it's me.... I am a little wrong in the head. I am never satisfied with a participation trophy.

For many, putting a turbo on a sled was all the money they had in their budget for their hobby. Adding money for clutch balancing and entirely new setups for $500-1000 isn't in the cards. Does this mean they shouldn't run a turbo? I don't think so. I know a turbo with a more "basic" clutch kit is still a highly capable tool, moreso than the pilot (me!) that's for sure.

To that end, some of the best riders I know, many whom are paid, do not run the "best" clutch setups, instead work on being the best rider they can.

This is my philosophy. Work on skills more than the sleds!

JJ_0909 · Dec 11, 2017

Spaarky said:
Not in the same ball park for runability either.

If you can't afford to do it right. You should stick to a stocker.... All these things should be done to a stock sled too.

BTW... If you don't think a delrin and glide washer are much different. Measure them ..... It's huge.

If you don't do it right. Your turbo sled will get embarrassed by a stocker. I have seen it many times.

This is so much BS. 50 extra horse clutched "pretty well" (5psi) is not in the same ballpark as a "well clutched" stocker. In Samual L's words, its not even in the same dang league.

You have your philosophy, I have mine. I can respect you want your machine to run near 100% efficiency. Chasing absolute perfection with the machine is something I've long given up on. I want mine to put a smile on my face, have something reliable and do things a stock machine (even "well clutched") would never do.

The rest of my time and money is better off spent training, in the gym and on riding trips! (working on me, the biggest "tool" in the equation

)

Axys Silber clutch heat

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