TRS clutching NA

Wheel House Motorsports · Jan 21, 2018

nosman4 said:
I get that they aren't the same, I was just referring to the profile that the roller touches. That looks almost identical, but the weight is distributed differently than the 10 series.

And that is the ticket, My indy lightning weights I got are the same profile as a 10 series. Just the same thing like you guys see with less weight in the middle and more pushed down right under the tip.

Tony,

Thanks again for all the hard work feeding everyone this info and researching so much with your time. I just put 3 amazing days on my axys and I cannot believe how freaking good it runs. Pulls HARD from top to bottom and belt temps stay so much more in check then anything I've had before. I can now ride the sled until im tired, not until the RPM fades off and I get sad.

nosman4 · Jan 21, 2018

That's what I am looking for on my sled and believe Tony can figure out this issue. I will just wait until Thursday to see what he finds. Thanks again, I will be checking back for updates.

nosman4 · Jan 23, 2018

Could the lower gearing of the 3" be affecting this clutching Tony? I see that yours is the stock 3" gearing and the Lightning weight setup is slightly higher but still lower than the 2.6 belt drive. Just a thought I had....

dktraw · Jan 23, 2018

I have been talking with Tony and also Dustin at Rodgers sport center about getting my clutch setup dialed in and working correctly. It sounds like we still have the correct L series weight so that's one hurdle. One of the main things we have discussed is my Bully Dog tuner that is loaded with a Carls map. It may be over fueling and never putting enough heat into the pipe to get it to shift all the way out. He has suggested a couple other things for me to try also that may help. I will be riding Friday and Monday and snow should be good. I will report back with what I find. Again big thanks to Tony and Dustin for lots of great advice. we will see what happens this weekend!

Ron Burgandy · Jan 25, 2018

so sounds like this setup works.... but you need the proper weights that aren't available anymore to get the full benefits.

Hopefully someone figures out the speedwerx deal. Have any other weights been tried? SLP? Goldstars? indys lightning weights? Belly busters?

Zanne81 · Jan 25, 2018

I'm going to try this with my Slp mtx weights.. have to wait for a month to get the parts though :face-icon-small-dis

Marble · Jan 25, 2018

We tried 42-32f helix with 125/175 secondary spring with 11-70 and 110/290 primary spring at low elevation this weekend. Secondary are WAY cooler than stock secondary, primary have same temp, but primary clutch need more tuning like stiffer finish rate spring... maybe a 120-340 will the next test.

rx1tonofun · Jan 25, 2018

Has anyone tried the Venom Rooster adjustable weights?

dktraw · Jan 25, 2018

Update from Tony: he called me a bit ago from the cabin to let me know his L series weights are measuring the same as the L series weights we have purchased. So we DO have the correct weight still from Rodgers. Will update again tomorrow after a bunch of testing on the mountain.

Wheel House Motorsports · Jan 25, 2018

Marble said:
We tried 42-32f helix with 125/175 secondary spring with 11-70 and 110/290 primary spring at low elevation this weekend. Secondary are WAY cooler than stock secondary, primary have same temp, but primary clutch need more tuning like stiffer finish rate spring... maybe a 120-340 will the next test.

10 series weights dont have enough weight out in the tip compared to the other styles of weights being used like lightenings/speederx etc. They dont seem to create the same drive and shift. They just sorta stall out and slip creating the heat like you are seeing.

Wheel House Motorsports · Jan 25, 2018

Zanne81 said:
I'm going to try this with my Slp mtx weights.. have to wait for a month to get the parts though :face-icon-small-dis

They are a completely different style of weight profile and don't work nearly the same. Major difference in heel shape/tuck along with mass distribution. This is a full recipe of parts that work together. Throwing variables like that in the system is just asking for confusion and poor tuning.

rx1tonofun · Jan 26, 2018

The SLP MTX weights can actually distort their shape when you install/remove rivets. Be careful when you're adjusting them. I've got a couple slightly bent ones, they look good in my tool box!

Zanne81 · Jan 26, 2018

Wheel House Motorsports said:
They are a completely different style of weight profile and don't work nearly the same. Major difference in heel shape/tuck along with mass distribution. This is a full recipe of parts that work together. Throwing variables like that in the system is just asking for confusion and poor tuning.

Yes I know they are different but I allready have them so it doesn't hurt to try them.. I can allways buy right ones if they don't work..

pj8556 · Jan 26, 2018

heres my sled:
'16 w/ SLP pipe, gear down w/ pro pulleys, 155"
Primary:
Speedwerx L weights, added short bolt w/ one washer (1.4g)
110/290 spring
Secondary:
Venom 125/175 red/gray spring, 40 deg helix (40/32 coming)

heres my experience @ 5000-7000 feet deep snow.
over-revving at 5k.
at 7000 feet, holds 8250 rpms (I'd like to see 8350, maybe 40/32 helix will get me there....)
Sled feels a bit sluggish upshifting and backshifting. Carls cycle setup was quicker both up and down
Heat was mildly less, I wouldnt say i was thrilled by any means when I checked the clutches after pulls (granted, this was in deep, somewhat heavy snow)
Track speed was only 40 mph (hopeful snow and helix contributing factors)
(it was 42-43 with Carls setup)

The sled was ripping pretty good with this setup and the clutches were a bit cooler (I did have higher hopes in this regard)
I want another day with this setup, and I need to get the 40/32 in there before making final judgements but I will say that before with Carls cluthching (the heat was troublesome!) but the sled felt livelier, this setup is relatively sluggish which takes from the fun factor for me.
I do think overall this is probably the better setup. It does seem to pull harder on top, just takes longer to get there. Not as fun in the mid range. (this was sorta expected but still a bummer)
Thanks for the tips and hard work. hope this info helps
I will update changes that I see

pj8556 · Jan 26, 2018

on these speedwerx weights there is a threaded hole in the heel of the weight.... Can I/should I add weight here? I havent seen or heard anyone doing this but I wondered when i saw it

tdbaugha · Jan 26, 2018

pj8556 said:
heres my sled:
'16 w/ SLP pipe, gear down w/ pro pulleys, 155"
Primary:
Speedwerx L weights, added short bolt w/ washer (1.4g)
110/290 spring
Secondary:
Venom 125/175 red/gray spring, 40 deg helix (40/32 coming)

heres my experience @ 5000-7000 feet deep snow.
over-revving at 5k.
at 7000 feet, holds 8250 rpms (I'd like to see 8350, maybe 40/32 helix will get me there....)
Sled feels a bit sluggish upshifting and backshifting. Carls cycle setup was quicker both up and down
Heat was mildly less, I wouldnt say i was thrilled by any means when I checked the clutches after pulls (granted, this was in deep, somewhat heavy snow)
Track speed was only 40 mph (hopeful snow and helix contributing factors)
(it was 42-43 with Carls setup)

The sled was ripping pretty good with this setup and the clutches were a bit cooler (I did have higher hopes in this regard)
I want another day with this setup, and I need to get the 40/32 in there before making final judgements but I will say that before with Carls cluthching (the heat was troublesome!) but the sled felt livelier, this setup is relatively sluggish which takes from the fun factor for me.
I do think overall this is probably the better setup. It does seem to pull harder on top, just takes longer to get there. Not as fun in the mid range. (this was sorta expected but still a bummer)
Thanks for the tips and hard work. hope this info helps
I will update changes that I see

Guys,

If you dont have all the parts (in this case the helix), don't waste your time or money on this clutching. It's not going to work; plain and simple.

Clutching is a package, regardless of who's package it is. This is especially true with the secondary. You can't arbitrarily put a significantly softer spring in there with the stock helix and expect it to work. 100% guaranteed your belt is slipping in the secondary, there's not enough belt squeeze with that soft spring and the stock straight 40° helix.

As far as the weights go, if you can't get lightning or custom speedwerx weights, don't bother getting the secondary setup. You're wasting your time and money.

richracer1 · Jan 26, 2018

tdbaugha said:
Guys,

If you dont have all the parts (in this case the helix), don't waste your time or money on this clutching. It's not going to work; plain and simple.

Clutching is a package, regardless of who's package it is. This is especially true with the secondary. You can't arbitrarily put a significantly softer spring in there with the stock helix and expect it to work. 100% guaranteed your belt is slipping in the secondary, there's not enough belt squeeze with that soft spring and the stock straight 40° helix.

As far as the weights go, if you can't get lightning or custom speedwerx weights, don't bother getting the secondary setup. You're wasting your time and money.

Spot on Tory. I've been following this thread since #1. While I can't use any of the specifics being discussed due to the setup of my sled, I am going to experiment with the theory behind it. My sled is a 16 Pro-RMK, 860 BMP kit, Pro-ride QD sprockets, Tied secondary, 7T 3" pitch Avids driving a 3.2" track. I do have a setup that works for ME, but going to try a few things along the lines discussed to see if I can make it better.

Can't learn if you don't experiment - unfortunately to experiment requires various springs, helixes and even weights...to which I have quite a few primary/secondary springs and Tied helixes to play with.

dktraw · Jan 26, 2018

Well fail again today.....snow was great with about 1.5 ft of fresh on top of good base. I removed the bully dog tune from sled and returned it back to stock mapping. Left all of Tonys clutching the same
L Series weights with 1.8 grams in the
110-290 primary
42-32
125-175 spring
Still felt extremely "slow" no pull at all. 8400rpm at 4k ft elevation. By the time i was at 7k ft i was only pulling 8150rpm. Track speed was meh at 37-40mph.
All these next changes are per Tony to try and make it work.
Swapped in 120-320 primary spring.....made it worse....8000rpm maybe 8100 when track lifted out of snow. Still felt very blah for
Went to my 42-34 cut of my helix and left primary unchanged. Very little change, maybe still worse yet, so i put the 110-290 spring back in. Gained rpm back to 81-8150, track speed still 40mph tops. Mayne pulled a little better but not much.
No matter how hard i worked the sled and got pipe hot just wouldnt go over that.
Final change was removing the tip weights and running them empty at 61 grams. 81-8200 and 8250 if track came out of snow. Seen 41 mph a few times but 37-40 was still the norm. It Revs fast and feels crisp, but is very boring. No pull at all. Feels a lot like riding a 600 honesty(powerband wise, not over all power). Worst part of the day was these clutches are not running cooler. Pulled a cord big time for the first time in awhile. Swapped spare on that had roughly 500mi and by the time i got to truck it pulled a cord too....
Clutches were cleaned and scotchbrited before riding today. Clutches were not black like belt was slipping.
All testing done at 7-8k ft elevation.
Wasted a lot of good riding today turning wrenches, and ruined two belts. Sucks.....Carls setup and Bully Dog tuner back on for tomorrow.
Tony is at his cabin, im waiting to hear back from him. But at this point, if anybody wants to buy a complete TRS clutch kit ill make ya a good deal!! Lol

Sled details again so you dont have to look back
2017 155 2.6
Stock gearing
Slp pipe set
Slp head with 6-8 domes
Resistor added today and bully dog removed

Spaarky · Jan 26, 2018

I suspect there is something not right with your sled and I will leave it at that. Before you go bolting parts back on I would put it back to stock and figure it out.

Ron Burgandy · Jan 26, 2018

After 800 miles of 100% stock.... i'm still trying to get my sled to pull 60 weights up high. wish i could experiment with clutching but got gremlins the dealer can't figure out.

anyone got any ideas as to why my sled would have high idle with tps in spec?

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TRS clutching NA

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