That is completely meaningless. Somebody got unlucky. Cat and everyone has had same thing happen.
Alpha one vs 850 axys?
- Thread starter mtnclimber
- Start date
C
cats been band aiding there proclimb chassis since it came out in 2012 with belt issues caused by the torque control link. using jack shaft as engine mount? binds the whole drive line. They have continually beefed up everything TCL, jack shaft, gears, lowered gearing, tougher belt material, vents, more vents ect. ect Still chain cases are grenading. Won't be right until they ditch the TCL
do you own ascend chassis or new clutch? curious.
Axys vs alpha
I ride a 16 Axys 163 2.6 with zbros 39” front and their spindles and their exit shocks. Rear is ice age bombers on 9” wheels with zbros exit shocks. Yesterday going back and forth from the alpha to my sled it’s an amazing machine. 2 feet of powder I am blown away at how the alpha hooks up and pulls and pulls and pulls. Carving is easier side hilling is easier bombing down the trail to the pickup seems normal. I have ridden polaris since my ‘97 700 RMK and I would say the alpha is a home run so far. I can hardly wait to see how this season and riding with the alpha in our group all plays out. I may have to finally jump ship and ride cat!!
I ride a 16 Axys 163 2.6 with zbros 39” front and their spindles and their exit shocks. Rear is ice age bombers on 9” wheels with zbros exit shocks. Yesterday going back and forth from the alpha to my sled it’s an amazing machine. 2 feet of powder I am blown away at how the alpha hooks up and pulls and pulls and pulls. Carving is easier side hilling is easier bombing down the trail to the pickup seems normal. I have ridden polaris since my ‘97 700 RMK and I would say the alpha is a home run so far. I can hardly wait to see how this season and riding with the alpha in our group all plays out. I may have to finally jump ship and ride cat!!
I seen an 850 today with 5 miles and a seizure. The guy said it felt like a broken crank it was shaking so bad.
I hope its related to bad dealer setup/prep (no oil?) and not really a broken crank.
I rode an Alpha today, traction is unreal, trail manners felt identical to the 18 Mtn Cat.
I hope its related to bad dealer setup/prep (no oil?) and not really a broken crank.
I rode an Alpha today, traction is unreal, trail manners felt identical to the 18 Mtn Cat.
TCL still being used and cat puts the power to the track. Think it’s working just fine. ?
No doubt they had trouble in 12 but by 13 it waa pretty well fixed. Ran the cheaper 083 belt on my 13,14 and 16 no issues at all.
14 cat broke TCL at 1,200 miles.
Replaced with 2016 TCL broke at 2,300 mi. So 1,100mi....
My 18 and 19 TCL are solid, not like the older ones. Hope they hold up. 1,000 miles on the 18.
Replaced with 2016 TCL broke at 2,300 mi. So 1,100mi....
My 18 and 19 TCL are solid, not like the older ones. Hope they hold up. 1,000 miles on the 18.
Hey guys I'm not brand loyal Ive had Pro's, Cats and just picked up a 18 Doo 850 coming off a 15 Doo 800 xm 174 with a Trygstad 872 kit. I,m an average rider and If my 18 Doo is a belt blower I'll probably switch to the Alpha 1 next year. I thought I'd give the Patriot and the Alpha a year to sort out their issues and see but my question is if the T motion is a gimmick or band aid like people say and the Alpha does pretty much the same or more what makes the Alpha work as good as it does. I'll be honest when I first seen the Alpha track set up I figured it would wash out and not hold lines good at all but it seems just the opposite. Not bashing just trying to learn
Thanks
Thanks
Traction and forward momentum. When you are on a steep slope and losing both those the track is going to go downhill. The alpha grabs more traction than the others. When I tip my alpha up and hold the ski a foot off the ground, most of the track is on the ground. When I do the same with my gen 4 most of the track is off the ground.
The tmotion is not a gimmick. It does what it is supposed to. Makes the sled easier to ride and ride lighter. Problem is it throws you around a little and you have to work the bars a lot more to keep it going where you want. Doos have always wanted to turn uphill a touch when put on their side and you have to correct them a little. You can put a ski 1 foot in the air and go straight down the trail on the alpha. Recipe for disaster on the gen 4. They automatically want to turn and you have to keep working the bars. Not sure it's all in the tmotion. I think some is in the front. I haven't seen any downfalls with the alpha yet. Probably something. Might just have to ride it different. The gen 4 is great but you have to ride it different than an axys.
The tmotion is not a gimmick. It does what it is supposed to. Makes the sled easier to ride and ride lighter. Problem is it throws you around a little and you have to work the bars a lot more to keep it going where you want. Doos have always wanted to turn uphill a touch when put on their side and you have to correct them a little. You can put a ski 1 foot in the air and go straight down the trail on the alpha. Recipe for disaster on the gen 4. They automatically want to turn and you have to keep working the bars. Not sure it's all in the tmotion. I think some is in the front. I haven't seen any downfalls with the alpha yet. Probably something. Might just have to ride it different. The gen 4 is great but you have to ride it different than an axys.
Appreciate the response and makes sense I hear the Gen 4 is a pogo front end I guess a lot like my XM but from what I'm reading and hearing so far looks like the Alpha will be my next sled looks like Cat has really done their home work thanks
The gen 4 is a million times better than an xm in every way.
Yes.
Alpha = easy.
Gen 4 = all over twitchy
850 Axys = scalpel (slightly more effort than alpha)
interesting, I've never really looked at the TCL as a problem. by 17 they were geared back up, very minimal effective venting for deep snow really imo, but clutches stay pretty cool. I bought a cheap 083 belt for a spare and am using it now with the stock 084 for a spare at 1300 miles, secondary has never been apart, all original clutch parts, changed the chain case oil twice now, its super easy to do on the extended chain case just drain and refill, I don't pull covers off to inspect or adjust chains anymore. this is a 17, the 18s seem about the same maintanece wise and they just keep getting better.
I think one of the most overlooked things is the Alpha does this .5" off the ground where was the t-motion has a pivot point 4"? off the ground. That has to be a significant difference. Most guys tend to like their doos better once they eliminate the t-motion and just have the flex edge. The alpha is more an extreme flex edge without t-motion.
Roll a Doo up on it's edge on the shop floor, then vary the angle you are holding it at. As you roll the sled toward or away from you the skis/handle bars naturally want to turn a little bit to stay square with the ground. The Gen 4 isn't as bad as some of the older Doos for this, but it's still there. I think that is part of the twitchiness/inconsistency I feel on Doo platforms that I just can't get past. Rolling my Cats like that it doesn't happen.
That would be spindle and/or A-arm geometry.
What we need is for someone to build a setup equivalent to Cats geometry in relation to rear skid. Then the only difference will be the Tmotion and flex track.(besides weight distribution in chassis)
Who's up for the challenge?
The difference is where the pivot point is in the rear. On the cat its in the center of the sled, which makes it easy to tip and hold there, where the skidoo, the pivot is much closer to the edge of the sled and closer to the center of the ski and that makes it a little harder to tip and want to tip back down easier which makes it feel twitchy.
When I was riding the revs, years ago, and the m sleds came out I didn't like it when you laid the m on its side on a sidehill. The rev would start turning and the m would just lay straight. Finally I stole my buddy's m for a half a day and realized you could do some cool stuff like sliding them straight down a hill on their side to fit between the trees. Turning them around on a steep sidehill. Stopping on a steep sidehill. This was before all the burandt craze. That was the end of doo for me until I tried an xm because of steering ease do to cranky shoulders. Hated it but the gen 4 is an awesome sled. It still turns when laid on its side but not like the old ones. I still think it is more to do with the whole rider forward thing because they went so far forward compared to everyone else. I bet it's still there if you weed out tmotion but don't know for sure. I literally rode the alpha at 30mph down the trail with a ski 1 foot in the air. The doo is tough at 5mph. Always turns.
The Alpha and G4 may both have design features that help initiate a carve or roll the sled on edge but that's about where the similarities end. The extreme rider forward geometry of the Doo is nothing like the Alpha or any prior Cat. Just the opposite really. Cat's have always felt a bit long in the nose if you jump back and forth from either of the others. You get used to that if you ride them. That's part of what has made them the most predictable and stable platform since the M sleds. The surprising thing is the new Alpha rear skid didn't take away from that stability and predictability at all. It may have enhanced it. Couple that with the most natural carving capability ever made and a track that hooks up like it does and you've got something truly different in the Alpha.
