Drive shaft bearing...replace shaft???

Laner · Jan 3, 2018

I bought a used '13 Pro RMK that my son and I are prepping for winter and have come across a few things that needed to be replaced. Some seem to be very common, such as the A-arms that the adhesive lets go and allows the tube to slide in/out of the end casting. Primary clutch spring broken at first coil and tonight found the drive shaft bearing has failed and looks like has possibly done some damage to the shaft as well. Here's a picture. Looks like there should be a bolt in the end of the shaft, but nothing there when we removed the secondary clutch to get a better view. Have others seen this issue? I am not seeing any grease zerks on these bearings.

mountainhorse · Jan 3, 2018

Yes... New shaft... probably find a steel one with drivers on it on ebay. Better shaft compared to the aluminum.

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LoudHandle · Jan 4, 2018

That is not a bearing failure. It is driveshaft replacement time.

Laner said:
I bought a used '13 Pro RMK that my son and I are prepping for winter and have come across a few things that needed to be replaced. Some seem to be very common, such as the A-arms that the adhesive lets go and allows the tube to slide in/out of the end casting. Primary clutch spring broken at first coil and tonight found the drive shaft bearing has failed and looks like has possibly done some damage to the shaft as well. Here's a picture. Looks like there should be a bolt in the end of the shaft, but nothing there when we removed the secondary clutch to get a better view. Have others seen this issue? I am not seeing any grease zerks on these bearings.

That is not a bearing failure. Polaris chose to use an aluminum hub on that side and a lot of them were not machined to a Press fit tolerance (as is required for the bearing to stay located on the the shaft hub). Once it starts to move it wears the hub away, even when the bearing is fine. I've seen them as bad as yours at less than 400 miles and the bearing is still in perfect condition. I have bought a lot of brand new take offs for my builds and 3 out of 4 you can pull that bearing off with your hand. I recommend when you replace the shaft you apply some Loctite to keep the bearing inner race and the aluminum shaft hub together.

P.S. I'll pay postage for good half of that shaft, or at least the splined hub from the other end. I pull the aluminum plain hub and put a splined one in it's place so I have the option to run driveshaft brakes and also never have to worry about the aluminum hub wearing away and leaving me stranded in chopper extraction territory.

ak · Jan 4, 2018

I have one for sale pm me if interested

mountainhorse · Jan 4, 2018

At the same time you are doing the driveshaft... you might just want to check all the driveshaft AND Jackshaft bearings and replace them if they look at all suspect.

Also, ensure the plate that holds the PTO-side driveshaft-bearing in place is not worn out and captures the bearing firmly.

For info on using the 2011/2012 Pro-RMK or the 2011-2015 Standard-RMK/Assault Steel driveshaft on the quick drive (the 13's have been shown to be weak and can fail... they require a good collar on them.)

If you go used... IMO... Put on a new bearing regardless of how it looks

IF YOU ARE GOING TO RUN THE 2011/12 SHAFT IN THE 2013
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326698

Heres one on Ebay for $160.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/391725083243

If you go used... Put on a new bearing

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Sheetmetalfab · Jan 4, 2018

mountainhorse said:
At the same time you are doing the driveshaft... you might just want to check all the driveshaft AND Jackshaft bearings and replace them if they look at all suspect.

Also, ensure the plate that holds the PTO-side driveshaft-bearing in place is not worn out and captures the bearing firmly.

For info on using the 2011/2012 Pro-RMK or the 2011-2015 Standard-RMK/Assault Steel driveshaft on the quick drive (the 13's have been shown to be weak and can fail... they require a good collar on them.)

If you go used... IMO... Put on a new bearing regardless of how it looks

Heres one on Ebay for $160.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/391725083243

If you go used... Put on a new bearing

.

I’ve actually never seen a bearing need replaced on a steel shaft.
Not saying you WILL get a good one but the bearings seem to last forever on the steel shafts..............

Laner · Jan 6, 2018

Thanks for all the input! The bearing did appear to be good, however, I will be installing new bearings on both ends since I have it apart. I did take the shaft to a local machine shop to have them build up the end of the shaft to fit the bearing properly. Should have this done on Monday. I will try to take some pictures to show how it turns out.
Are there aftermarket shafts out there that would be a better replacement than factory? I know that some of you mentioned using the 2011/2012 RMK drive shaft or the 2011-2015 Assault drive shaft also. Just wondering if there are other options?
The PTO side bearing appears to be solid and working properly. I will check the other bearings tomorrow and see if any others need replaced.
The current shaft does have the collar installed on the drive spline side. Although, it was not all the way at the end like the Polaris bulletin states, so I will be moving that also.

LoudHandle · Jan 6, 2018

IMO: The machine shop fix will prove to be wasted money

Laner said:
Thanks for all the input! The bearing did appear to be good, however, I will be installing new bearings on both ends since I have it apart. I did take the shaft to a local machine shop to have them build up the end of the shaft to fit the bearing properly. Should have this done on Monday. I will try to take some pictures to show how it turns out.
Are there aftermarket shafts out there that would be a better replacement than factory? I know that some of you mentioned using the 2011/2012 RMK drive shaft or the 2011-2015 Assault drive shaft also. Just wondering if there are other options?
The PTO side bearing appears to be solid and working properly. I will check the other bearings tomorrow and see if any others need replaced.
The current shaft does have the collar installed on the drive spline side. Although, it was not all the way at the end like the Polaris bulletin states, so I will be moving that also.

I’m very curious how the machine shop “ built up” the plain hub to the proper diameter. If they welded up the end? It is now too soft weak to stay true and retain the bearing, plus the heat of the welding risks softening / destroying the adheasive bond. If they machined it and installed a press fit sleeve? The stub was already too small for that in my opinion. That is why I throw them away and install a good splined hub in its place and true it prior to applying / injecting the adheasive.

SRXSRULE · Jan 7, 2018

Laner said:
Thanks for all the input! The bearing did appear to be good, however, I will be installing new bearings on both ends since I have it apart. I did take the shaft to a local machine shop to have them build up the end of the shaft to fit the bearing properly. Should have this done on Monday. I will try to take some pictures to show how it turns out.
Are there aftermarket shafts out there that would be a better replacement than factory? I know that some of you mentioned using the 2011/2012 RMK drive shaft or the 2011-2015 Assault drive shaft also. Just wondering if there are other options?
The PTO side bearing appears to be solid and working properly. I will check the other bearings tomorrow and see if any others need replaced.
The current shaft does have the collar installed on the drive spline side. Although, it was not all the way at the end like the Polaris bulletin states, so I will be moving that also.

IMO you just wasted your time and money "fixing" a shaft that is a bad design to start with.

You would of been much better off buying a used steel shaft off ebay for less then 100 bucks.... there are several on there in that price range.

Laner · Jan 7, 2018

LoudHandle said:
I’m very curious how the machine shop “ built up” the plain hub to the proper diameter. If they welded up the end? It is now too soft weak to stay true and retain the bearing, plus the heat of the welding risks softening / destroying the adheasive bond. If they machined it and installed a press fit sleeve? The stub was already too small for that in my opinion. That is why I throw them away and install a good splined hub in its place and true it prior to applying / injecting the adheasive.

They were going to build up the shaft with hard weld and machine/true to fit bearing. Thoughts were that the welding process would weaken the adhesive, but this side should not have the torque applied that the drive side would have. This side is more of a "follower". I understand that this may not work, but I could not find any information saying that this had been tried before and did not work.
I am skeptical of buying a used shaft on ebay. I hear of ebay junk all the time.
If the welding doesn't work I will most likely order a new shaft, maybe 1 for an Assault to rid this sled of this drive shaft issue.
Do you have any pictures of some that you have done while installing the splined hub process?

LoudHandle · Jan 7, 2018

Laner said:
They were going to build up the shaft with hard weld and machine/true to fit bearing. Thoughts were that the welding process would weaken the adhesive, but this side should not have the torque applied that the drive side would have. This side is more of a "follower". I understand that this may not work, but I could not find any information saying that this had been tried before and did not work.
I am skeptical of buying a used shaft on ebay. I hear of ebay junk all the time.
If the welding doesn't work I will most likely order a new shaft, maybe 1 for an Assault to rid this sled of this drive shaft issue.
Do you have any pictures of some that you have done while installing the splined hub process?

The plain hub is cast aluminum! There is no Aluminum "hard weld". Which indicates to me even the "Machine Shop" is in over it's head. The more information you provide the more I realize there are people out there that have zero knowledge base in a profession that demands a very broad knowledge base.

Here is a pic from my SW album of my double splined drive shafts;

The complete drive shaft with 58 Tooth C3 sprocket, Wahl Brothers Billet aluminum flangettes, standard bearings for prototyping (will get Ceramic Hybrid bearings when time for final installation), Happy Face Collar with fasteners upgraded to Titanium, 9 Tooth 2.86" Pitch involute drivers (custom made by C3 for me), Yeti Disk with my hub, my large flange flangette holder which also doubles as the brake mount, the Wilwood caliper has been upgraded to Titanium bolts and Titanium brake pad pin, Titanium mount bolts as well as Titanium shaft bolts; 5217 Grams
There is some trimming / profiling to do on the brake mount, this is the first one just to visually check all clearances and dimensions in 3D, to verify I was not overlooking anything in the CAD process.

While this is economical for me and my personal use. It would be cost prohibitive for me to make and sell these. As it takes two shafts to make one of these, even if the parts were free. Once you add in the Labor time for disassembly, cleaning, assembly, truing, and gluing; even a new shaft is cheaper.

When the machine shop fails to deliver a functional fix, PM me as I may have one in my pile of take offs that has a good plain end bearing fit.

geo · Jan 7, 2018

True the ruined shaft end on a lathe using centers. Spin up a interference fit .003" steel sleeve and chamfer both diameters at each end. Warm up the sleeve with hot water and set the shaft end in the snow for a couple of minutes then press fit the sleeve with green loctite just to be OCD. Skim off the last couple of thou to true the sleeve to proper bearing fit (rule of my thumb, about a thousandth of the shaft diameter). Press on bearing.

About an hours work to a lathe operator including looking for the sleeve material. IMO this has been a permanent fix for the slight expansion- contraction differences between aluminum and steel.

mountainhorse · Jan 7, 2018

Laner said:
Thanks for all the input! The bearing did appear to be good, however, I will be installing new bearings on both ends since I have it apart.

It's not just that the bearings in the drive plate are good...It is if they are a snug fit and don't spin the outer races.

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LoudHandle · Jan 7, 2018

geo said:
True the ruined shaft end on a lathe using centers. Spin up a interference fit .003" steel sleeve and chamfer both diameters at each end. Warm up the sleeve with hot water and set the shaft end in the snow for a couple of minutes then press fit the sleeve with green loctite just to be OCD. Skim off the last couple of thou to true the sleeve to proper bearing fit (rule of my thumb, about a thousandth of the shaft diameter). Press on bearing.

About an hours work to a lathe operator including looking for the sleeve material. IMO this has been a permanent fix for the slight expansion- contraction differences between aluminum and steel.

Geo, I've got a lot of respect for you.

As the OP picture clearly shows the aluminum plain end is already worn to about half the original diameter. After truing it up for a sleeve it will be at or less than 1/2". If it was less worn I would agree that it could be saved, but 1/2" of original hub left is not enough to warrant the time an energy to sleeve it. IMO

mountainhorse · Jan 7, 2018

Unless you have this stuff in your own garage... Lathe, welder etc...

My local machine shop charges $100/hr for small jobs.... plus the time and BS involved

How is this less costly than buying a used steel shaft? (which is a push for weight when you include the weight of the collar)

Besides the fact that the 2013 Driveshafts were the most suspect for quality of mfg. and durability.

IMO, this is akin to stepping over dollars to pick up dimes.

.

Dazzler · Jan 7, 2018

I replaced a couple of the 2013 aluminum shafts with the 2012 steel shaft back in 2013. I found the steel shaft to run noticeably untrue with the belt drive sprocket. It wasn't as noticeable with the narrower chain sprocket but with the wide belt drive sprocket it had a wobble similar to the 850 Doo clutch!!! I took it back to the dealer and picked up two more new off the shelf steel drive shafts and found them both similar to the first one. This might explain why poo went to aluminum shafts with glued on ends? Better chance of mass production of a true running drive shaft for the belt drive that has no adjustment!?!?!
I machined the welds off of the steel shafts and stitch weld back together, took a couple hours letting it cool between welds but managed to keep the hub running true.

mountainhorse · Jan 8, 2018

Sorry to hear you had issues with your steel shafts...seems like a potential issue for some.

Did you try different sprockets?.. I know some of the sprockets were "off".

Not saying that there is not an issue and that there are those out there that have experienced it.... just that many have not experienced it...

I've put the steel shaft on quite a few 2013's ... and have not had an issue... many of our members have them on as well without issue.

If you are leery about using a steel shaft... there are always plenty on Ebay at reasonable prices.... like this one for $195
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352233600123

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Drive shaft bearing...replace shaft???

Laner

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mountainhorse

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LoudHandle

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ak

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mountainhorse

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Sheetmetalfab

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Laner

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Laner

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