viper loss of oil prime

Nytroboost said:

I believe you guys are talking about 2 different issues still. What handsome is saying was a real issue with the 2014's if the sled got vertical enough in a climb or wheelie the ecm would detect a low oil pressure and shut it down causing major problems if in a chute. For the 15's Yamaha changed the baffling in the oil tank so when the tank is horizontal all the oil can't flow to the top of the tank very quickly and losing suction. They also did some programming to give slightly more time before going into derate. You can get all this done for a 14 Yamaha was offering the programming update free of charge and then you would have to buy the tank baffling.

Cheers

Click to expand...

My boosted 174x3" 2014 viper had updates and still would get the oil light on a steep climb and go in limp mode.
Got rid of that toad(It handled like a 676lb toad) and got a 15 and built it up, the 15 has the same Boost-it turbo, roll over, more $$$$$ and ... does not leak oil anywhere but did have the oil light come on after a moderate climb and long wheelie. Backed off and let the front come down, light went off and kept on going. So there is still an issue.

Not sure you have to go elsewhere or switch a brand. I really think the issue they had is under control as I have ridden my viper for a year now in al kinds of terrian without an issue. I would not turn back. But just my opinion

Lets look at this logically the Nytro /Viper engine is a dry sump system meaning the oil is in a tank verses the bottom of the motor. There are two oil pumps in the engine. the main pressure pump and what they call the scavenger pump in the bottom of the motor. the pressure pump feeds the engine and the sole purpose of the scavenger pump is to empty the case and feed the oil back into the tank. under most operating conditions the pressure pump is always pumping oil through the motor and the scavenger pump is always pumping oil back to the tank. Now lets tilt the sled vertical. Correct me if i am wrong but with the sled vertical the orientation of the motor is completely horizontal or even angled so the Head is below the sump in the bottom of the engine. I think everyone would agree if the sled is in this position the throttle would be pinned. This would suggested that the pressure side of the pump is at max pressure feeding the engine with oil. however the oil in the bottom of the motor is literally running away from the scavenger pump. So maximum oil is leaving the tank with no oil returning to the tank to complete the cycle. It doesn't take long at before the level of the tank drops below the pickup that is now on the side of the tank rather then the bottom due to the orientation of the sled. that is why it was important to baffle the inside of the tank but still under extreme conditions will not be able to help the fact that no oil is making it back to the tank from the scavenger pump. Its obvious at some point the pump will begin to suck air and loose prime and warning bells go off. You add to this the fact that i think a lot of people are/were running their vipers low on oil to help the fact it was leaking out the breather line and you have a lot of cases of people saying there is a huge issue of the loss of oil pressure.

I am guessing that it was not the moderate climb that put K45 into limp mode. it was the long wheelie with the throttle pinned that caused the motor to run out of oil. I would agree that this would be a huge issue if i rode my sled in vertical wheelie all the time. However i have seen a lot of vipers running huge chutes on Youtube and in the movies that don't seem to have any issues. I just don't see this issue being reason number 1 not to buy one when you understand the reason it happens.

HANDSOME said:

I talked to a guy today with an Alpine Viper and he said Dean at Alpine has a fix for it that extends the timer before limp mode as I understand. The oil is in the engine as it has nowhere else to go so therefore no engine damage should occur .

Click to expand...

If you have a 2014 Viper did you get the reflash?

HANDSOME said:

No I dont have a Viper yet, just doing my research before I get one.

Click to expand...

The reflash on 14's does as the 2015 and lengthens the timer on the low oil limp mode. I expect that is what he is telling you as the Viper ECU is VERY tamper proof that is why we don't have the EVO flash yet.

HANDSOME said:

No I dont have a Viper yet, just doing my research before I get one.

Click to expand...

Where do you stand with this? Just being curious..
I have a somewhat stock Viper for this season. It was a deal I couldn't pass up, so I'm just going to ride it stock this season to make sure its worthy of stealing the majority of my pay checks.:face-icon-small-ton

At times I wish I had bought a two stroke for the lightness and ease of use.. but then I realize there is nothing else out there capable of lasting through 190-240 horsepower on pump gas quite like the Yamaha engine.

Anywho, what are your thoughts? and what kind of terrain do you ride?

I wish I could give you first hand experience but I can't, as I just bought mine a couple months ago.. but..
I know the guy I bought my Viper from wasn't the least bit happy with it. Some of his problems were brought on himself though.. I bought it knowing full well the problems he had. The starter was replaced, Wouldn't start left outside in -30C, the exhaust exploded from kickback, the hyfax wore out and the rails wore to nothing and bent up inside the tunnel which was self inflicted, he assumed the sled had the same inside wheels in the middle of the skid as his girlfriends M8000... It does not, and he didn't use the scratchers as he thought they were only a means to cool the sled down... He thought the sled was geared too low, and the suspension was too soft (he is a big boy). There was also a trace of oil in the air box, so I assume it was upside down if not a few times at least once.. especially knowing how he rides.
I feel confident in Yamaha. I think they will eventually work out the little issues the Viper has.. that to me are no more to worry about than the other brands known issues.. At least at the end of the day we know the engine will be bulletproof for many years to come.. That's what makes me sleep well at night anyways.. haha. :face-icon-small-hap

I hope whatever you choose it treats you well.

My 14 Viper had a reflash from my Yamaha dealer to extend the time the sled,s oil light goes on and a limp mode initiates.

bholmlate is correct in saying the long wheelie after going over the top set my oil light, a stock viper would have no issue like that as it could not have made the climb let alone wheelie over the top for any distance. I rode my 15 stock for a few days 162"x 3"PC track - not impressive at all...

My 15 viper has the 162x3 PC, Pro-motion, Z-broz coupler, Lightweight hood, no headlight, Alternate Impact narrow front end, Roll over valve, Boost-It turbo, exit rear and front shocks - 619Lbs full of fuel. Handles good, narrow front end the best mod for handling.

For a comparison my 13 162x2.5 XM TSS Water to air turbo with no light parts was 589lbs full of fuel - easy to ride and pull and go.

My old 14 Viper 174x3 Racers edge skid, boost-it turbo, raptor shocks, Z-Broz 38"front end..... was 676lbs full of fuel - lots of power terrible in the trees - for me anyway.

My 174x3 T3 stock with sled shed cooker can is 549 full of fuel - easy to ride.

I have a job where I don't have much time to ride my sleds. If I could get more time to ride and I was younger Im sure the Vipers would get easier to ride, but for easy reliable power a boosted XM is hard to beat. My buddy has 6000 hard km on his 14 Aerocharged XM and it keeps going strong at 9lbs.

Just an honest opinion to help potential buyers.

K45 said:

My buddy has 6000 hard km on his 14 Aerocharged XM and it keeps going strong at 9lbs.

Just an honest opinion to help potential buyers.

Click to expand...

That's interesting. I've yet to actually meet someone who has made it that far on a stock 800etec engine. I owned two 800etec sleds. Lost the engine in one at 2000km.

What elevation is he at and what type of fuel?
My friend didn't have good luck with his Aerocharger ETEC, sold it and bought a Boondocker kit.. This one is actually lasting.

Motorbreath_ said:

That's interesting. I've yet to actually meet someone who has made it that far on a stock 800etec engine. I owned two 800etec sleds. Lost the engine in one at 2000km.

What elevation is he at and what type of fuel?
My friend didn't have good luck with his Aerocharger ETEC, sold it and bought a Boondocker kit.. This one is actually lasting.

Click to expand...

4000-6500ft +/- Straight AV Gas
And I'm not saying buy a Doo - they just work for less $$$
I think the 16 Boosted Viper with the new front end will be impressive tho.

K45 said:

4000-6500ft +/- Straight AV Gas
And I'm not saying buy a Doo - they just work for less $$$
I think the 16 Boosted Viper with the new front end will be impressive tho.

Click to expand...

I think the elevation is helping him out a bit. I know a few out west in BC that have had great luck with turboed XMs as well. Unfortunately we are at Sea-level up here, and I don't know why but for some reason that don't treat the two stroke turbos very well.

My last 3 sleds were BRP, I'd still buy one.. I just wanted to try something with some big horsepower for a change.. and still be able to fill up at the same gas station I always do with 91 octane.

I bet those turbo 2 strokes are super fun though.. Almost making me want a nice light weight back up sled. :biggrin1:

motojunkie101 said:

I've had my '15 viper lose prime without rolling it. I was stuck and it was tipped downhill at a steep angle for a few minutes. I worked for 30 minutes to get it to reprime at the bottom after we got it out, that was extremely frustrating. I eventually went the "it's under warranty" route and bumped the throttle a few times and wouldn't you know it primed and the light went out.. I've had to do that a few times with it, and I always cringe when I bump the throttle with the oil light on.

We rode McCall last spring and I climbed some pretty steep hills and rode out some wheelies with no issues. I only had an issue when it was upside down or near to it.

When it comes to power I have the mpi turbo, i wouldn't ride it without one or another. I really don't think anyone would be impressed with a stock viper if they have much time on the snow. It side hills really well, but doesn't pull up as easy as my '13 snopro. The viper just carries more weight up front, and shows the most when you are in hard snow.

Also they come seriously undersprung, the front shock needs a bigger spring out of the box.

Click to expand...

YEP! the 110 pound spring that comes on the front skid shock on the MTX and XTX Viper is a JOKE! Put a 160 pound spring in and it will dance like an M8. IF YOU RUN THE STOCK SPRING IT WILL FEEL HEAVY AND TRENCH!

stingray719 said:

YEP! the 110 pound spring that comes on the front skid shock on the MTX and XTX Viper is a JOKE! Put a 160 pound spring in and it will dance like an M8. IF YOU RUN THE STOCK SPRING IT WILL FEEL HEAVY AND TRENCH!

Click to expand...

Any one have a part number for the 160 spring?