Something just hit me.....Who is really running this place?

shortstop20 · Mar 6, 2010

christopher said:
Something for you to chew on...
Busy for the servers doesn't just come for new posts.
It comes from total traffic and read requests.

September 2009.
Threads: 110,572
Posts: 1,487,219
Members: 33,123
Active Members: 7,245

March 2010
Threads: 155,890 (+ 45,318)
Posts: 2,002,069 (+ 514,850)
Members: 44,834 (+ 11,711)
Active members: 17,549 (peaked 2 weeks ago in mid 18,250)
Guests: Apx. 9,500

Note:
The post count is WRONG.
It appears to be short by about 160,000 posts.
This appears to stem from when we ran the re-count that lowered so many people's posts counts last fall, and was only discovered yesterday when we were trying to determine who had just made the 2 millionth post.

When we re-run the counter update process, that number should jump back up by the missing 160K posts.

In spite of all the controversy and drama, new memberships for February 2010, were UP +106% over the same period in 2009. That means we have more than TWICE as many new members coming to SnoWest and creating new user accounts as we did last year.

None of our projections called for that level of traffic in new members, nor peak active member loads in the 18,000 range.

So it don't let it bother you or be surprised if sometime this year we had a 3rd server.

Hey Christopher,

No offense, but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Post numbers mean jack, quality of information means everything and the quality of info on this site has went DOWN since it has went to a pay site. Mostly because the most knowledgeable members are not going to SPEND money to give information away for FREE.

Just my .02

backcountryislife · Mar 6, 2010

dsp81 said:
How was it shady? That they tried to keep it under wraps for a period of time that they were going pay? That they didn't broadcast how the deal was structured between Harris and Chris? I'm not sure which part was shady. This is, after all, a privately held corporation we're talking about. Thus, there's no requirement for transparency or disclosure.

What I did see was a lot of people who don't understand corporate structure and/or service provision opining on what they thought was happening. But I still don't see what was shady. Unless of course you call "charging for something that once was free" shady.

If you don't get what we're calling shady/ not up front, you're blind, or just plain confused.

They made a decision, which is their RIGHT to do, I disagree, but it's their baseball field, unfortunately the games has been considerably less interesting lately (no matter how many BS numbers they spew about how many people are coming). I'm not going to waste my fingers explaining it to you if you cant comprehend what we're saying.

sidehill · Mar 6, 2010

christopher said:
Something for you to chew on...
Busy for the servers doesn't just come for new posts.
It comes from total traffic and read requests.

September 2009.
Threads: 110,572
Posts: 1,487,219
Members: 33,123
Active Members: 7,245

March 2010
Threads: 155,890 (+ 45,318)
Posts: 2,002,069 (+ 514,850)
Members: 44,834 (+ 11,711)
Active members: 17,549 (peaked 2 weeks ago in mid 18,250)
Guests: Apx. 9,500

Note:
The post count is WRONG.
It appears to be short by about 160,000 posts.
This appears to stem from when we ran the re-count that lowered so many people's posts counts last fall, and was only discovered yesterday when we were trying to determine who had just made the 2 millionth post.

When we re-run the counter update process, that number should jump back up by the missing 160K posts.

In spite of all the controversy and drama, new memberships for February 2010, were UP +106% over the same period in 2009. That means we have more than TWICE as many new members coming to SnoWest and creating new user accounts as we did last year.

None of our projections called for that level of traffic in new members, nor peak active member loads in the 18,000 range.

So it don't let it bother you or be surprised if sometime this year we had a 3rd server.

Post count numbers are inflated due to the use of the thanks button. This feature really is not a post but counts as one.

Members number is inflated due to all the alters on here.

The only numbers that really mean anything are the numbers from Feb. this year to Feb. next year. You run your same fantasy equation this time next year you wont like the outcome. You will have to come up with a different equation to blow smoke up people a$$es this time next year.

dsp81 · Mar 6, 2010

backcountryislife said:
If you don't get what we're calling shady/ not up front, you're blind, or just plain confused.

They made a decision, which is their RIGHT to do, I disagree, but it's their baseball field, unfortunately the games has been considerably less interesting lately (no matter how many BS numbers they spew about how many people are coming). I'm not going to waste my fingers explaining it to you if you cant comprehend what we're saying.

No, really, explain it to me. I find it interesting that it's so plain that I'm "blind" because I don't see it. Is it that you can't really succinctly state why the change was "shady?" I'll take the main concerns on for you.

On Christopher running AVOW: what does that have to do with SnoWest forums? I guess I don't understand why affiliation with a church precludes one from doing something else? Perhaps all Mormons are shady? Or are they just an easy target and no one really says much when you attack their belief system? I also don't understand why running another forum precludes one from running SnoWest forums. But it seems more like the concern was over Christopher being religious. I guess it's okay to be intolerant when forums are concerned.

On the snowestonline.com domain: It's called a management shell. Christopher and his partner have their business. They filed for a DBA in Idaho for the name snowestonline. That doesn't mean that they now own the forums; it means they are the company that will manage the forums. Harris Publishing still owns the trademark for SnoWest, still publishes the magazine and still owns the forums. Christopher owns the company that manages the forums. That company collects the money and pays a royalty to Harris Publishing. It's actually not that shady - it's how you do it. Why did they need to broadcast the fundamentals of their deal? Does Harris Publishing need to run which printer they use for the magazine by the readers?

On deleting threads and banning members: What did you/they think was going to happen? I mean seriously? That's fine if you want to say Christopher is an awful person, but don't pretend that they'd get away with most of the stuff that happened here at any other forum in the universe. It's pretty disingenuous.

The fact is that Christopher and Harris have explained every one of the things above at least one time. The problem is that you don't want to listen. Again, I invite you to share what is "shady" about the transaction. Misunderstanding and/or misappropriating basic facts does not equal "shady."

christopher · Mar 6, 2010

diamonddave said:
Just to play devil's advocate I'm wondering how we have data for March 2010 that exceeds Sept. 2009 when we're only 5 days into March 2010?

If it was a typo and meant to represent Feb 2010 then one could argue that it would be expected that we have more traffic in the months of February and March than you would in September. Most are still enjoying their summertime in Sept and don't really start getting into the sleds until Oct/Nov.

That was the stat as of the day I posted it in March.
That does NOT cover the whole month of march going forward.

christopher · Mar 6, 2010

ruffryder said:
The data is a snapshot at that point in time... Those are monthly totals he is comparing...

Correct.

christopher · Mar 6, 2010

sidehill said:
Post count numbers are inflated due to the use of the thanks button. This feature really is not a post but counts as one.

Members number is inflated due to all the alters on here.

The only numbers that really mean anything are the numbers from Feb. this year to Feb. next year. You run your same fantasy equation this time next year you wont like the outcome. You will have to come up with a different equation to blow smoke up people a$$es this time next year.

Two different counting systems.

The Total Post Count from the forum only counts physical posts inside of a thread and is part of the core vBulleten software.

YOUR PERSONAL POST COUNT accrues for both physical posts and for the use of the Thanks button, as the Thanks module is written that way

ruffryder · Mar 6, 2010

christopher said:
Two different counting systems.

The Total Post Count from the forum only counts physical posts inside of a thread and is part of the core vBulleten software.

YOUR PERSONAL POST COUNT accrues for both physical posts and for the use of the Thanks button, as the Thanks module is written that way

Thanks for the clarification..

You might just want to post the technical manual for vBulleten and every detail and use that snowest uses....

hypnotoad · Mar 6, 2010

backcountryislife · Mar 6, 2010

dsp81 said:
No, really, explain it to me.

So you really are that dense huh? OK, maybe not dense or stupid, but if you don't understand what we're talking about, then you weren't paying attention during all the time when this whole process first started. Not dense maybe, but completely incapable of empathy or seeing the other side of something.

Like I said, It's their decision, they did it, they will continue to do what they want, but whether you understand it or not & whether I feel like going back & quoting posts from when this came down or not, I disagree with the way it was done, plain & simple.

The stupid comment that were made along the way like "you don't understand because you don't know what's coming, but I do" crap like that gets old. And btw, someone's belief system may not be the the factor, but as was explained just recently by another member, people who believe themselves to be righteous tend to set themselves on a path because they believe that they know the way, and it's the only way. If you haven't met enough of these self righteous people to understand, you need to get out more. I mentioned Mormons without thinking & I was WRONG TO DO THAT, but the reality is it doesn't matter AT ALL WHICH religion it is, the confused fundamentals of any religion do all sorts of moronic things. (way to be about a week behind on the argument/discussion though... well done)

Look around you in this world, the people that TRULY believe that god is on their side & the rest of the world is going to hell allow themselves to do some absolutely horrific things. Be they Catholic, Islamic, Pentecostal, whatever, the extremists of any group are a frightening bunch that causes little but damage in this world. Take a look at the avow website & some of the info on there, if it doesn't bother you, then don't worry, you're already one of them... good luck.

dsp81 · Mar 6, 2010

backcountryislife said:
So you really are that dense huh? OK, maybe not dense or stupid, but if you don't understand what we're talking about, then you weren't paying attention during all the time when this whole process first started. Not dense maybe, but completely incapable of empathy or seeing the other side of something.

Like I said, It's their decision, they did it, they will continue to do what they want, but whether you understand it or not & whether I feel like going back & quoting posts from when this came down or not, I disagree with the way it was done, plain & simple.

The stupid comment that were made along the way like "you don't understand because you don't know what's coming, but I do" crap like that gets old. And btw, someone's belief system may not be the the factor, but as was explained just recently by another member, people who believe themselves to be righteous tend to set themselves on a path because they believe that they know the way, and it's the only way. If you haven't met enough of these self righteous people to understand, you need to get out more. I mentioned Mormons without thinking & I was WRONG TO DO THAT, but the reality is it doesn't matter AT ALL WHICH religion it is, the confused fundamentals of any religion do all sorts of moronic things. (way to be about a week behind on the argument/discussion though... well done)

Look around you in this world, the people that TRULY believe that god is on their side & the rest of the world is going to hell allow themselves to do some absolutely horrific things. Be they Catholic, Islamic, Pentecostal, whatever, the extremists of any group are a frightening bunch that causes little but damage in this world. Take a look at the avow website & some of the info on there, if it doesn't bother you, then don't worry, you're already one of them... good luck.

It's interesting that I'm "dense" when you can't even give me a short summary of what was "shady." I tried to guess what was "shady," but apparently those issues weren't the right ones... I've been around for the whole change - try me.

And I'd love to have a philosophical discussion about religion, but it appears that you've come to the party woefully underprepared. You fault me for a lack of "empathy," then launch into a religious diatribe. I'm not sure Webster could have defined "irony" any better than that. What does ridiculing Christopher's belief system do for you - I mean, other than make you look like a bigoted moron? This is, after all, a snowmobile forum. What hath his religion to do with anything?

That's great that you reject all forms of "fundamentalism," but it doesn't bolster your argument to make a straw man out of your "opponent." If your going to issue stinging indictments of a religion, at least get the basic tenants of that religion correct. Mormons believe that only a very select group of people make it to hell (at least the "hell" you're referencing). Meaning that almost no person ever goes to hell, even those pesky non-believers. I understand that you are trying to speak generally, but you're going to need to do better than (over)generalizations. Perhaps you could just have some more "empathy."

And I'm not a week behind, I've just chosen to stay above the fray. Why have a discussion on moral philosophy with people who wouldn't know Nietzsche (or Kant) if he hit them upside the head?

diamonddave · Mar 6, 2010

ruffryder said:
The data is a snapshot at that point in time... Those are monthly totals he is comparing...

christopher said:
Correct.

Christopher, Totally legitimate not to rock the boat question. I'm confused and not that it matters to me AT ALL (the actual numbers), Ruffy states those are monthly totals that you are comparing? Could you clarify what they exactly mean so that I don't feel so stupid anymore. Which ones are the monthly?

christopher said:
That was the stat as of the day I posted it in March.
That does NOT cover the whole month of march going forward.

I get this, I'm wondering which of the numbers are the monthly totals? The way I'm understanding it are those numbers are cumulative counts and the red indicate the increase since Sept 09 to the date you totaled say a couple days ago??

ruffryder · Mar 7, 2010

diamonddave said:
Christopher, Totally legitimate not to rock the boat question. I'm confused and not that it matters to me AT ALL (the actual numbers), Ruffy states those are monthly totals that you are comparing? Could you clarify what they exactly mean so that I don't feel so stupid anymore. Which ones are the monthly?

I think he agreed with the first part of my post and misread the second part of that post. I mistyped it, so it is possible.

I should have said those AREN"T monthly totals. It is correct that they are a snapshot at that point in time though.

Sorry for the confusion with my sloppy posting. I can see how this got all twisted..

diamonddave · Mar 7, 2010

dsp81 said:
I mean, other than make you look like a bigoted moron?

Was this necessary? Name calling? Can't we leave that at the playground?

C'mon people, take a quote from Obama. "Every thing that could be said about Healthcare (insert Snowest here) has already been said."

I thought Christopher, Mods/Admin played this out beautifully over the last couple weeks by essentially IGNORING the drama and letiing the venters vent. It has now just about died out. Except....

The only time it keeps going though is when someone who tries speaking up for the side of the change continues to twist the knife into the other side. I was the leading candidate of voicing my discontent for the change. Every time someone for the other side came back with things I didn't want to hear or playing devils advocate, (twisting the knife so to speak; you know who you are btw) it just made it worse.

So..leave it alone. "The Fat lady has sung" Lets move on..

Both sides!!

dsp81 · Mar 7, 2010

diamonddave said:
Was this necessary? Name calling? Can't we leave that at the playground?

I was just playing it at the same level. When someone refers to another as "dense" and "maybe not ... stupid" (but close), I figured he was okay with it. And given his rant about just about everyone that identifies with organized religion, I thought it was a pretty appropriate statement.

Listen, I'm fine if you want say it was a bad idea going pay. But this goes far, far beyond that. I think people who take it there are dinks - and I don't feel any particular inclination to show them any respect.

94fordguy · Mar 7, 2010

christopher said:
Something for you to chew on...
Busy for the servers doesn't just come for new posts.
It comes from total traffic and read requests.

September 2009.
Threads: 110,572
Posts: 1,487,219
Members: 33,123
Active Members: 7,245

March 2010
Threads: 155,890 (+ 45,318)
Posts: 2,002,069 (+ 514,850)
Members: 44,834 (+ 11,711)
Active members: 17,549 (peaked 2 weeks ago in mid 18,250)
Guests: Apx. 9,500

Note:
The post count is WRONG.
It appears to be short by about 160,000 posts.
This appears to stem from when we ran the re-count that lowered so many people's posts counts last fall, and was only discovered yesterday when we were trying to determine who had just made the 2 millionth post.

When we re-run the counter update process, that number should jump back up by the missing 160K posts.

In spite of all the controversy and drama, new memberships for February 2010, were UP +106% over the same period in 2009. That means we have more than TWICE as many new members coming to SnoWest and creating new user accounts as we did last year.

None of our projections called for that level of traffic in new members, nor peak active member loads in the 18,000 range.

So it don't let it bother you or be surprised if sometime this year we had a 3rd server.

diamonddave said:
Christopher, Totally legitimate not to rock the boat question. I'm confused and not that it matters to me AT ALL (the actual numbers), Ruffy states those are monthly totals that you are comparing? Could you clarify what they exactly mean so that I don't feel so stupid anymore. Which ones are the monthly?

I get this, I'm wondering which of the numbers are the monthly totals? The way I'm understanding it are those numbers are cumulative counts and the red indicate the increase since Sept 09 to the date you totaled say a couple days ago??

Hopefully I can clarify this one step further.

The numbers listed for September 2009 are the numbers from the original forum changover (november 2007) until September 2009.

The numbers listed for March 2010 are the numbers from the original forum changeover (november 2007) until March 2010.

The numbers in red are the net gains for the 5-6 month period from whatever day it was in September that those numbers were taken from, until a couple days ago when these statistics were developed. They are merely meant to be a representation of how active the forum has been during the core of this sledding season.

None of the numbers represent a monthly average from one month to the other, they are ONLY a snapshot of the gross totals from November 2007 to September and March.

No monthly averages, no yearly comparisons, only the gross totals and the net gains are listed.

I hope that helps the confusion.:beer;

Clarke673 · Mar 7, 2010

Chris, i must still ask you to please figure out a way to increase traffic on this sight. It used to be a valuable resource to me when i was selling or trying to buy parts, now i get on every night to find 2 new threads....its getting old. I am finding my self spending more time on other forums. That is something you don't want, and i don't want.

backcountryislife · Mar 7, 2010

dsp81 said:
And given his rant about just about everyone that identifies with organized religion, I thought it was a pretty appropriate statement.

unfortunately again you show the inability to understand.

I did not put down "just about everyone that identifies with organized religion" for one, I identify with organized religion, and have ZERO issues with the average, 99.99% of churchgoing people. The ones that I have an issue with (for the 3rd time... again, this shows a bit of density on your part to not get it after being clearly spelled out) the extremists, the fundamentalists, the wackos...whatever we call them. If you are unable to separate the extreme fundamental believers from the rest that can see the big picture, then unfortunately for us, you are likely one of them. To me, this would be similar to a person saying that there is no difference between wahhabism & the rest of islam. If you don't see the issue there, you would likely find that there are about 1.5 billion evil Muslims in this world, and most of us that are able to understand the difference know this to be false.

Again, this was not brought up with the purpose of ridiculing someone's religion, it was brought up in the context of how certain people feel righteous in their actions which can cause them to go about things in very different ways than the rest of us would.

btw, I gave you a small snippet of what I'm talking about in the last post, the kind of comments that were used as we changed over. I'm not going to waste my time going further with that, because I'm not going to go back & quote some of the things that were posted, and I'm not going to make incorrect quotes of the things that christopher has said so you can go back & nitpick them. Again, if you don't get it, that's your issue... not mine. I know that the majority of the people that are on here understand what I'm talking about, the fact that you don't is a shame.

AKSNOWRIDER · Mar 7, 2010

94fordguy said:
Hopefully I can clarify this one step further.

The numbers listed for September 2009 are the numbers from the original forum changover (november 2007) until September 2009.

The numbers in red are the net gains for the 5-6 month period from whatever day it was in September that those numbers were taken from, until a couple days ago when these statistics were developed. They are merely meant to be a representation of how active the forum has been during the core of this sledding season.

None of the numbers represent a monthly average from one month to the other, they are ONLY a snapshot of the gross totals from November 2007 to September and March.

No monthly averages, no yearly comparisons, only the gross totals and the net gains are listed.

I hope that helps the confusion.:beer;

well I know that since snowest went to a pay site that I have been checking daily user numbers on the forum main page, been checking them between 6 and 8 pm every day that I am near a computer.. and the downward trend of members online has been dwindling steadily down(at least a consistent 1/3 less)and anyone who says that we are gaining in daily membership is wrong....now I do wonder how many of those 11000 gained are just altered accounts, closed but not deleted members accounts and other non participating members? must be quite a bit....I know this, I used to have to go thru over 500 new thread post everyday, now days it runs in the 250 to 350 new threads posted on each day..(clicking on "new post" at night when I get home from work...)

Slick · Mar 7, 2010

Well said Backcountryislife, but DSP81figures to be one of these people who isn't gonna get it till unfortunately, the extremists of whatever, religion, politics, environmentalists,etc come to his house and negatively affect him or his loved ones. Till then, I agree, he sounds pretty dense. Not being mean pal, just calling it like it is.
You sir, sound like a "fitter inner", and that must suck for u.

Something just hit me.....Who is really running this place?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Chilly’s Mentor

Well-known member

Chilly’s Mentor

Well-known member

Well-known member

Somewhere between too dumb to quit and flat earth

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

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