J
Indeed, much appreciated!!:wine::hail::happy:
2001 Pantera 1000 ....need some info please
- Thread starter Jamesh11
- Start date
Indeed, much appreciated!!:wine::hail::happy:
Thanks and you're welcome too. Hope what we have chimed in with will be helpful.
J
Wrong bolt sold to me
I asked for 9/16" -18 bolt. I can't get it threaded in by hand after the first quarter turn. I've learnt my lesson and am not forcing this bolt in there
)
How do you identify these bolts? All it has on it is a "P" and it is a 6 point 13/16 socket size. I kind of had the feeling by looking at it at the store that the threads were too course but the salesman was adamant that it was a 9/16" -18. I remembered looking into the shaft of the primary clutch last night that the threads looked awfully fine to my eye....whatever that means as it's all subjective.
I'll go back tomorrow and ask to look at all thread sizes they have in stock in a grade 8 9/16" bolt. I'll probably buy a few different sizes.
I'm threading this thing in by hand the first half inch or so.....)
Actually I remember being at the store this morning and the salesman had two bolts in his hand. One was a 9/16" and the other a 1/2". I took both from him and overlapped the threaded ends of the two bolts from opposite sides. I was surprised that the threaded parts didn't fit into one another but the salesman made nothing of it. I presumed that fine thread is fine thread and that the threads should fit into each other no matter the diameter of the bolts even if they are different diameter sizes. The salesman was pretty nonchalant about it all and I didn't want to debate something with someone who does it for a living.....
Anyway the only way to do it is to buy a few thread sizes and try them until one threads in nicely.
Yes I looked, the threads on the primary clutch shaft is not hurt as to the reason why the bolt does not thread in.
I asked for 9/16" -18 bolt. I can't get it threaded in by hand after the first quarter turn. I've learnt my lesson and am not forcing this bolt in there
)How do you identify these bolts? All it has on it is a "P" and it is a 6 point 13/16 socket size. I kind of had the feeling by looking at it at the store that the threads were too course but the salesman was adamant that it was a 9/16" -18. I remembered looking into the shaft of the primary clutch last night that the threads looked awfully fine to my eye....whatever that means as it's all subjective.
I'll go back tomorrow and ask to look at all thread sizes they have in stock in a grade 8 9/16" bolt. I'll probably buy a few different sizes.
I'm threading this thing in by hand the first half inch or so.....
)Actually I remember being at the store this morning and the salesman had two bolts in his hand. One was a 9/16" and the other a 1/2". I took both from him and overlapped the threaded ends of the two bolts from opposite sides. I was surprised that the threaded parts didn't fit into one another but the salesman made nothing of it. I presumed that fine thread is fine thread and that the threads should fit into each other no matter the diameter of the bolts even if they are different diameter sizes. The salesman was pretty nonchalant about it all and I didn't want to debate something with someone who does it for a living.....
Anyway the only way to do it is to buy a few thread sizes and try them until one threads in nicely.
Yes I looked, the threads on the primary clutch shaft is not hurt as to the reason why the bolt does not thread in.
Sometimes the lock washer on the clutch bolt will damage the first thread in the bore.You got me wondering if I had made a mistake so I went and checked for sure. My 9/16 - 18 tap is the same thread as my clutch puller and it screws in to the hole in a Cat 9 bolt round cover clutch. Does your sled still have the stock Arctic Cat clutch or has it been replaced with something else. Also how long are the threads on the bolt you bought? Does it have enough thread to screw in far enough to touch the end of your broken bolt or the spacer you put in? The 1/2 clutch bolt is a 20 pitch thread. And I have never found a salesman at a hardware store who knew much about bolt threads and sizes so I wouldn't put too much faith in what he says. In fact about half of them don't know the difference between fine and coarse threads. Anyway I think you are still on the right track, let us know how it goes.
J
I can't remember whether it is the stock clutch. I replaced a spring and maybe weights on the Pantera 8 years ago before I stopped riding it. Did I replace the whole clutch? I can't remember because I bought a spare clutch at some point in time, but it is still a 9 tower clutch like the original.
The threads on the bolt is not long enough to have the bolt reach the broken off stump, but I can fix that by using a 8mm deep socket as a spacer
I am going back to the store tomorrow morning and I will have a nice little selection of different thread 9/16 bolts when I leave there.
Another question: Is it at all possible that any Arctic cat 9 tower clutches would be factory built to accept a 14mm bolt instead of a 9/16?
Just wondering as the 9/16 I have is a pretty tight fit as I cand hand tighten it more than 1/4 turn. It could just be that the starter threads were damaged by the bolt washer as suggested. I can't really see in there properly to be able to make a correct judgment.
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J
GOOD news, Embarrassing news and a tip.
Guys,
GOOD news......
I got the primary clutch off using my newly purchased for $50 9/16" -18 three piece tap set. Tapped out the shaft, shove a 5/16 deep socket in the shaft and screwed my Grade 8 9/16 bolt in there. Surprisingly it really didn't take much effort to pop the clutch off (as compared to my embarrassing news)
Embarrassing news.....
I got my nuts in my hand for this one! The primary clutch is off and the broken off bolt is sticking out a good 2 1/2 inches from the crank. Should be easy to get that off right!? Not so fast....Remember I broke the bolt off. I got that thing jammed in there pretty good. Not sure what I was thinking.
Right now I have a Vice-grip on the crank to keep it from rotating and another vice-grip on the broken off bolt. The vice grip on the bolt keeps slipping off and I have it on there pretty good. I don't have a welder but will probably have to get a nut welded onto that bolt to get it out. Either that or grinding the bolt square on two sides so I can get a wrench onto it.
I'm an absolute dumbazz!!
A Tip....
Whenever you need to do something like this, get a tap set.!! It is money spent wisely. If you strip out the shaft of something or cross thread a bolt that doesn't want to go in where you want it to go into, you make more headaches than you just created due to prior stupidity on your own part.
The bolt can stay in there for now as I am so relieved that the whole damn engine doesn't have to come out. I really am delighted and am now going to have a well deserved cold beer. Wish John was here so I could get him drunk)
I will go and take that clutch apart later tonight. Tomorrow I will tackle the bolt that is stuck in the crankshaft.
Guys,
GOOD news......
I got the primary clutch off using my newly purchased for $50 9/16" -18 three piece tap set. Tapped out the shaft, shove a 5/16 deep socket in the shaft and screwed my Grade 8 9/16 bolt in there. Surprisingly it really didn't take much effort to pop the clutch off (as compared to my embarrassing news)
Embarrassing news.....
I got my nuts in my hand for this one! The primary clutch is off and the broken off bolt is sticking out a good 2 1/2 inches from the crank. Should be easy to get that off right!? Not so fast....Remember I broke the bolt off. I got that thing jammed in there pretty good. Not sure what I was thinking.
Right now I have a Vice-grip on the crank to keep it from rotating and another vice-grip on the broken off bolt. The vice grip on the bolt keeps slipping off and I have it on there pretty good. I don't have a welder but will probably have to get a nut welded onto that bolt to get it out. Either that or grinding the bolt square on two sides so I can get a wrench onto it.
I'm an absolute dumbazz!!
A Tip....
Whenever you need to do something like this, get a tap set.!! It is money spent wisely. If you strip out the shaft of something or cross thread a bolt that doesn't want to go in where you want it to go into, you make more headaches than you just created due to prior stupidity on your own part.
The bolt can stay in there for now as I am so relieved that the whole damn engine doesn't have to come out. I really am delighted and am now going to have a well deserved cold beer. Wish John was here so I could get him drunk
)I will go and take that clutch apart later tonight. Tomorrow I will tackle the bolt that is stuck in the crankshaft.
J
Primary Clutch
Primary clutch is off and when I turn it upside down and back up the three weights just freely fall around in there. The weight's bushing seem to turn freely as well as the roller that the tip of the weights should rest on.
Not sure why the weights are just falling around freely. They are all three nicely attached at their bases.
I took the top cover off of the primary and the clutch still stays in the wide open position.
I need to find a tool big enough to get the nut that holds the spider on off.
I can't get a pipe wrench to fit into the recess and my sockets are too shallow as the spider is sitting pretty deep down on the shaft.
Something seems to be seized up in there somewhere.
Primary clutch is off and when I turn it upside down and back up the three weights just freely fall around in there. The weight's bushing seem to turn freely as well as the roller that the tip of the weights should rest on.
Not sure why the weights are just falling around freely. They are all three nicely attached at their bases.
I took the top cover off of the primary and the clutch still stays in the wide open position.
I need to find a tool big enough to get the nut that holds the spider on off.
I can't get a pipe wrench to fit into the recess and my sockets are too shallow as the spider is sitting pretty deep down on the shaft.
Something seems to be seized up in there somewhere.
Check your spider for cracks. The clutch sticking open is an indication that something is wrong with the spider.
J
Spider is fine. A guy at Catdeals.com told me that my clutch is toast. Apparently if I don't buy the 9 tower specifically for the 2000-2001 Pantera 1000 triple I will keep eating clutches. The power and torque of the 1000 triple heats up the bushing in the sleeve and it seizes. The 2000-2001 clutch was upgraded with a newer clutch after failures related to the bushing. New clutch Part# 0746-795
Anyway I ordered one from Catdeals, gave me a thanksgiving special $399.
I will use my weights and red spring when it arrives. Got a nice jacket from them as well....thanksgiving....$319 on for $125 and a 0327-020 belt.
A deal is not a deal if you don't spend $600
))....shipping is $75
J
Bolt in crank is stuck hard.....help
I can't get to hold the crank in one place while trying to twist the broken off bolt out.
I have 3 vice-grips over a piece off rubber onto the outside crank beveled stub. I have three more vice-grips onto the broken off bolt.
I then twist the crank so as to jam the vice-grips on the crank onto the starter. Then I grab the three vice-grips on the broken off bolt and then try to twist counter clockwise but the crank keeps moving.
I can't pull the pull cord tight and tie it on as it twists the engine in the same direction (counter clockwise as I look at it from the clutch side) as I'm trying to go anyway.
I'm afraid of the take out the spark plug and fill the piston chamber with rope idea as I think I'm going to break up the piston if the rope is not putting pressure on dead center. Worse even, I could break up the crank.
I'm at a loss of how to hold the crank on!! If I take the pipes off and unbolt the pull cord mechanism, is there a way to hold the crank on from that side??
Thanks guys
Idea:: Does a reducer type clamp exist that I can buy somewhere? What is it called. Some type of clamp to hold onto that bevelled crank stub without damaging it.....guess I can just use rubber matting on it
I can't get to hold the crank in one place while trying to twist the broken off bolt out.
I have 3 vice-grips over a piece off rubber onto the outside crank beveled stub. I have three more vice-grips onto the broken off bolt.
I then twist the crank so as to jam the vice-grips on the crank onto the starter. Then I grab the three vice-grips on the broken off bolt and then try to twist counter clockwise but the crank keeps moving.
I can't pull the pull cord tight and tie it on as it twists the engine in the same direction (counter clockwise as I look at it from the clutch side) as I'm trying to go anyway.
I'm afraid of the take out the spark plug and fill the piston chamber with rope idea as I think I'm going to break up the piston if the rope is not putting pressure on dead center. Worse even, I could break up the crank.
I'm at a loss of how to hold the crank on!! If I take the pipes off and unbolt the pull cord mechanism, is there a way to hold the crank on from that side??
Thanks guys
Idea:: Does a reducer type clamp exist that I can buy somewhere? What is it called. Some type of clamp to hold onto that bevelled crank stub without damaging it.....guess I can just use rubber matting on it
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did you try heating the crank stub abit..heat the crank stub and spray Loctite deep freeze on the broken bolt ??...and you can get actual stud removers if enough of the broken bolt is showing ..?...and good strap wrenches often work for the crank..
sometimes you can heat the broken bolt and it expands and pushes out on the crank then when it cools it will sometimes shrink less then when you started and that's when you try again..
and if you have a good bite on the bolt with a good vise grip OR a good small pipe wrench give the wrench a good fast hard hit with a small sledge and often you don't even need to hold the crank to break it loose....
sometimes you can heat the broken bolt and it expands and pushes out on the crank then when it cools it will sometimes shrink less then when you started and that's when you try again..
and if you have a good bite on the bolt with a good vise grip OR a good small pipe wrench give the wrench a good fast hard hit with a small sledge and often you don't even need to hold the crank to break it loose....
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ps...last resort you may have to drill a good size hole in the stud and the threads loosen enough for the stud to come out and if not a complete drill out and rechase the threads a bit...but you shouldn't have to go this far..
Have been wondering if you got the broken bolt out yet?
J
yep I did
Took the exhaust off on this side and turned the crank to get the piston down. Then I shoved a piece of 2x3 strapping all the way in and jammed the butt end of a screw driver into the exhaust port on top of the strapping to hold it in place.
After this I put three vice grips over a piece of rubber matting onto the crank stub and jammed their handle ends onto the starter. Tied it with rope to the opposite side of the engine so it wouldn't slip and I could have both hands free.
Now two vice grips onto the broken off bolt and a pipe wrench between the two vices and with my one knee pushing the snowmobile down I pulled counter clockwise on the vice grip/pipe wrench combo. I steadily increased pressure until the bolt started moving. I moved it a quarter turn this way and then twisted it out by hand.
The problem was the 1 inch cut off bolt that I stuck into the crank before I put the clutch bolt in there!! I had the clutch bolt torqued in so hard that that one inch bolt bent under the pressure and got jammed in there. The broken off bolt was torqued and jammed onto the end of it.....and it was tight.
I'm still working on how to drill that 1 inch bent and jammed in piece of bolt out without doing damage to the crank threads or the crank itself.
I may stick a small deep socket wrench in the shaft as a guide to the drill bit. I just bought two cobalt bits. I will try to drill it in a way so it breaks into smaller pieces, but have to be careful as I've proven to be like a bull in a china shop.....
J
1" Bolt jammed into crank behind clutch bolt is out!!
Broke three cobalt drill bits in the process.
It is a hard space to try and drill while the engine is in the snowmobile but I managed to find and buy a 90 degree drill accessory.
I was afraid to destroy the threads inside the crank so I had to devise a plan. I ended up buying a 12" copper faucet extension (wide enough to fit a 19/64" cobalt bit into) and also bought a bigger copper pipe fitting at a plumbing section just big enough to fit into the crank shaft.
I cut the copper faucet pipe off 1" shorter then the 19/64" bit and shoved it over the bit. The idea was to protect the crank shaft threads. I then drilled a hole into the jammed in stump. Not easy with an electric drill with a 90 degree angle accessory. There is a 3" rubber plug in the side of the snowmobile pan to provide access to the primary clutch bolt. I ended up sticking the shaft of a hammer in here and used the hammer to put pressure on the 90 degree drill accessory so I could drill.....probably why I broke off three bits because you can't keep the drill 100% straight this way.
Anyway after this first hole was drilled I put the wider copper fitting into the shaft and could now use a 5/16" cobalt drill bit which I ended up breaking at some point, but it did the job.
I used a screw driver and hammer to tap loose some of the bolt pieces and removed them with a LOT of patience. There was a small 1/4" piece left over that was twisted at an angle but I managed to pry it loose after fooling with it for a while. Needle nose pliers grabbed it after I played Chinese chop sticks with two thin screwdrivers for a while.
I cleaned out the shaft and will now use a tap to make sure the threads are what they should be.
One question: Is that a 1/2" fine thread inside the crank?
Broke three cobalt drill bits in the process.
It is a hard space to try and drill while the engine is in the snowmobile but I managed to find and buy a 90 degree drill accessory.
I was afraid to destroy the threads inside the crank so I had to devise a plan. I ended up buying a 12" copper faucet extension (wide enough to fit a 19/64" cobalt bit into) and also bought a bigger copper pipe fitting at a plumbing section just big enough to fit into the crank shaft.
I cut the copper faucet pipe off 1" shorter then the 19/64" bit and shoved it over the bit. The idea was to protect the crank shaft threads. I then drilled a hole into the jammed in stump. Not easy with an electric drill with a 90 degree angle accessory. There is a 3" rubber plug in the side of the snowmobile pan to provide access to the primary clutch bolt. I ended up sticking the shaft of a hammer in here and used the hammer to put pressure on the 90 degree drill accessory so I could drill.....probably why I broke off three bits because you can't keep the drill 100% straight this way.
Anyway after this first hole was drilled I put the wider copper fitting into the shaft and could now use a 5/16" cobalt drill bit which I ended up breaking at some point, but it did the job.
I used a screw driver and hammer to tap loose some of the bolt pieces and removed them with a LOT of patience. There was a small 1/4" piece left over that was twisted at an angle but I managed to pry it loose after fooling with it for a while. Needle nose pliers grabbed it after I played Chinese chop sticks with two thin screwdrivers for a while.
I cleaned out the shaft and will now use a tap to make sure the threads are what they should be.
One question: Is that a 1/2" fine thread inside the crank?
Yes, 1/2 fine. Be very careful, I once broke a tap in the end of a crank. That was fun getting out. I burned up the motor on one Dremel tool and went through about 3 little carbide cutters on that one. Oil the hole until it runs out and then turn the tap a little at a time and reverse it. Take your time and good luck.
J
Clutch weight question
I bought a new primary clutch for the Pantera as the other was seized.
Original part # 0725-308 has been replaced by #0746-795. So this last part number clutch is what I bought early December
I've been fooling around with other stuff on the snowmobile and just happened to take this new primary out of the box today. Original was a 9 post clutch and this new one which is a replacement part is a 6 post.
All is fine and dandy except that the bolt that holds the 53g clutch weights on the old primary is thinner than the bolt on the new replacement clutch.
When I look at the original clutch weights that I want to install into the new replacement clutch I see what looks like bushings in the hole at the end of the weights. Can I tap those out so that I can use those weights onto the thicker bolts of the newer clutch or do I have to try and find weights to fit that thicker style bolt?
My feeling is that I probably have to find weights for that thicker style bolt. If so where and any suggestions to weights for that style clutch?
I bought a new primary clutch for the Pantera as the other was seized.
Original part # 0725-308 has been replaced by #0746-795. So this last part number clutch is what I bought early December
I've been fooling around with other stuff on the snowmobile and just happened to take this new primary out of the box today. Original was a 9 post clutch and this new one which is a replacement part is a 6 post.
All is fine and dandy except that the bolt that holds the 53g clutch weights on the old primary is thinner than the bolt on the new replacement clutch.
When I look at the original clutch weights that I want to install into the new replacement clutch I see what looks like bushings in the hole at the end of the weights. Can I tap those out so that I can use those weights onto the thicker bolts of the newer clutch or do I have to try and find weights to fit that thicker style bolt?
My feeling is that I probably have to find weights for that thicker style bolt. If so where and any suggestions to weights for that style clutch?
The weights you need will attach to the pivot bolt with a setscrew. I would not use your old weights as there would be no bushing to take the wear. Country Cat should be able to fix you up with the proper weights. In my opinion they should have asked if you needed weights when you bought the clutch. Also I think they could have sold you a clutch that could have used your old weights.
J
I've read stuff that says that 9 post clutch weights are direct replacement parts onto newer 6 post clutches.
I now presume that there must be different styles of 6 post clutches. Maybe the earlier styles were interchangeable as far as weights were concerned and they evolved as newer models came out over time to not be compatible with parts any more. I don't know, but I'm sure learning the hard way
))I do enjoy picking away at the Pantera and now will be picking away at my boy's Powder special as well.....starting in the spring by looking for some 1M replacement front suspension setup for it.
Yes, there are different versions of the 6 bolt clutch. I like to call it 6 bolt instead of 6 tower for some reason. Anyway the earlier ones used the same weights as the 9 bolt without the set screw and with the bushing. Most if not all of the newer 6 bolt clutches use the weight with a setscrew and the larger pivot pin or bolt. I think you can put bushings in the set screw weights and use them in the older clutches, but it is not a good idea to use the older weights in the set screw clutches. It can be done but the weights and the pins will wear too quickly because there would be no bushing. Also they would need some washers to prevent side to side movement. Again, I hope this helps.
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