mixing premium with race gas's

Octanee · Dec 21, 2017

Hey guys, so normally It's fairly common info on the mixing ratios and octane you will get, however I am wondering about it while mixing much less of the race gas to premium gas and it may be too diluted like to really work or maybe I'm over thinking it?

For instance I usually run approx 30% av gas 100LL and 70% chevron 94 octane. nets me approx 96 octane nominal, so thats about 13L out of 40 liters.

Now I was looking at some "ignite 114" octane fuel, I calculated running 12% of that fuel and 88% 94 octane nets me 96.5 octane in the formula. or 5L 114/35L of 94 octane.

To me only putting in 5L per 40L tank seems like it would be getting fairly diluted and maybe it may not really have much of an octane enhancing effect?

Anybody have any experience in mixing smaller amounts of this high octane race fuel? also its apparently an "ethanol" based race fuel, Anything to watch out for there? I'm wondering about this as I can get some 114 for a price that puts it comparable to the av gas since its under half the amount required. thanks

TRS · Dec 21, 2017

Personally I would stay with your old fuel combo if it is working for you. Changing fuels may change how your sled runs. You may need to retune the fuel.
Fuels are not created equal. Case in point, I went from running a 110/91 mix that ran awesome. Then as things happen I couldn’t buy that fuel from the supplier anymore. Bought Turbo Blue for the mix, spec sheet was identical. Wrong. I had to build a completely different fuel map for the Turbo Blue.
It’s not worth it stay with what you know works, or plan on testing. Don’t switch fuels and go riding with your buddies without testing, they may not ask you back:face-icon-small-hap

Octanee · Dec 21, 2017

TRS said:
Personally I would stay with your old fuel combo if it is working for you. Changing fuels may change how your sled runs. You may need to retune the fuel.
Fuels are not created equal. Case in point, I went from running a 110/91 mix that ran awesome. Then as things happen I couldn’t buy that fuel from the supplier anymore. Bought Turbo Blue for the mix, spec sheet was identical. Wrong. I had to build a completely different fuel map for the Turbo Blue.
It’s not worth it stay with what you know works, or plan on testing. Don’t switch fuels and go riding with your buddies without testing, they may not ask you back:face-icon-small-hap

Good point on the potential for the re tuning or other issues. I still need to tune the sled more properly, I'm currently running it on the richer side to be safe as we haven't had the snow, been abnormally low this year so just trail rides. I'm thinking to grab a 5 gallon jug as I had a realization I'm out of av gas ( I should know better lol!) and it may take me a couple weeks to line up with my guy again to get some :/

Any input on if I only put 5L in would it be too diluted like or would it work just fine as per octane calculations. the more I think about it I am probably just over thinking it lol...

KAWGRN · Dec 22, 2017

I did the same thing last season, I wanted to run 7-10 psi and the delima was the amount of 100av that I needed to bring up the hill, it took me awhile to figure out the ratio but when i figured it out ,,,it ran great, I was using 110 mixed with 93 non eth mixing for a total of 96 octane and I was down to about 1 gal of 110 to 4 gal of 93 non eth which gave me about 96, I was at 2 to 4 and was way to rich.easier to carry 2– 5 gal cans of 110 than 50 gal of 100 av

Octanee · Dec 22, 2017

KAWGRN said:
I did the same thing last season, I wanted to run 7-10 psi and the delima was the amount of 100av that I needed to bring up the hill, it took me awhile to figure out the ratio but when i figured it out ,,,it ran great, I was using 110 mixed with 93 non eth mixing for a total of 96 octane and I was down to about 1 gal of 110 to 4 gal of 93 non eth which gave me about 96, I was at 2 to 4 and was way to rich.easier to carry 2– 5 gal cans of 110 than 50 gal of 100 av

Thanks for the reply, and good info, so per tank you ended up running 2 gallons roughly of 110 and about 8 gallons of 93 premium? the gas tank is about 10- 11 gallons

fredw · Dec 22, 2017

Here is a good formula if your swapping different grades of fuel in a mix

( [ % Fuel A ] x [ Octane of Fuel A ] ) + ( [ % Fuel B ] x [ Octane of Fuel B ] ) = Octane of Mixture
Here’s an example. Let’s say you mix 3 gallons of 110 with 2 gallons of 100 and you want to know the octane of the resulting 5 gallon mixture.
The percentage of 110 in the mix is 3/5 = 0.60 (60%).
The percentage of the 100 octane fuel in the mix is 2/5 = 0.40 ( 40%).
Plugging the information into the equation:
(0.60 x 110) + (0.40 x 100) = 66 + 40 = 106
So the octane of the resulting mixture is 106.

Midwest Summit · Dec 22, 2017

TRS said:
Personally I would stay with your old fuel combo if it is working for you. Changing fuels may change how your sled runs. You may need to retune the fuel.
Fuels are not created equal. Case in point, I went from running a 110/91 mix that ran awesome. Then as things happen I couldn’t buy that fuel from the supplier anymore. Bought Turbo Blue for the mix, spec sheet was identical. Wrong. I had to build a completely different fuel map for the Turbo Blue.
It’s not worth it stay with what you know works, or plan on testing. Don’t switch fuels and go riding with your buddies without testing, they may not ask you back:face-icon-small-hap

If you only have two choices for high octane to mix, Turbo Blue leaded 110 race gas or 100LL aviation fuel, what would be better??? I have heard the aviation fuel can coat your spark plugs with lead over time, would this also happen with Turbo Blue???

SRXSRULE · Dec 22, 2017

Midwest Summit said:
If you only have two choices for high octane to mix, Turbo Blue leaded 110 race gas or 100LL aviation fuel, what would be better??? I have heard the aviation fuel can coat your spark plugs with lead over time, would this also happen with Turbo Blue???

I go through about 150 gals of Turbo Blue a summer in my race car. At the end of the season there is maybe a hint of lead build up on my plugs. I run fine wire iridium plugs and dont even change them every season so I would say you would be fine running this fuel.

KAWGRN · Dec 22, 2017

Octanee said:
Thanks for the reply, and good info, so per tank you ended up running 2 gallons roughly of 110 and about 8 gallons of 93 premium? the gas tank is about 10- 11 gallons

that's correct but I rarely run a hole tank of fuel a day,, unless its on the snow bike! I'm sure the 100AV is fine and I have found that the down side to race fuel was more running to Rich than to lean, better start rich though!and if you go to the APP store there are several great Mixing apps that you just put in your numbers ,,Im pretty stupid so I use the APP instead of Math!!!

JJ_0909 · Dec 22, 2017

SRXSRULE said:
I go through about 150 gals of Turbo Blue a summer in my race car. At the end of the season there is maybe a hint of lead build up on my plugs. I run fine wire iridium plugs and dont even change them every season so I would say you would be fine running this fuel.

What race car?

Octanee · Dec 22, 2017

Thanks for the replies guys, It's been good info

Ult680 · Dec 22, 2017

Midwest Summit said:
If you only have two choices for high octane to mix, Turbo Blue leaded 110 race gas or 100LL aviation fuel, what would be better??? I have heard the aviation fuel can coat your spark plugs with lead over time, would this also happen with Turbo Blue???

100LL and 110 have a pretty heavy amount of lead which will coat plugs pistons sensors and exhaust components. It’s parts of the game, unless you buy unleaded high octane which is very very pricey. I’ve tried all the combinations of fuel mixing, they all work. Base off availability and what works the easiest for you. I carry 50 gallons of 100 LL in the trailer works for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SRXSRULE · Dec 22, 2017

JJ_0909 said:
What race car?

Dirt track stock car. Here is a highlight video from a "weekly" race. I'm the orange/black 12K on the bottom.

FYI.... The 4 cars battling it out have a combined win total of 650+

https://www.facebook.com/speedshifttv/videos/1548647145204135/

mountainhorse · Dec 22, 2017

Octane is only a small part of the burn character of fuel...

Going by that alone is not always a good idea as Tony pointed out above.

.

Octanee · Dec 25, 2017

Anybody have any input on mixing a ethanol based race fuel into a tank mixed with leaded fuel? I picked up a small pale of ethanol based race fuel incase I couldn't get my av gas, and now I got my av gas but I thought I'd burn it by putting in about half a gallon in per ride, I, got googling and some say ethanol fuels with lead cause it to lower the octane? Hmm.

aj1180 · Dec 25, 2017

I had been running Sunoco 110 but was not able to get it last yr from my distributor. All they had was Sunoco 112. It was a huge difference in performance when mixed. The 112 didn’t burn nearly as well. I had to adjust my blend to get it to run better. I hate changing the blend. Once you find a blend that runs good and keeps the motor in one piece, don’t change it.

Meadow Muffin · Dec 26, 2017

Octanee said:
Anybody have any input on mixing a ethanol based race fuel into a tank mixed with leaded fuel? I picked up a small pale of ethanol based race fuel incase I couldn't get my av gas, and now I got my av gas but I thought I'd burn it by putting in about half a gallon in per ride, I, got googling and some say ethanol fuels with lead cause it to lower the octane? Hmm.

I don’t know about lowering octane, but be very careful with oxygenated race fuel. They tend to be very corrosive, we ran VP’s Crate HP fuel (oxygenated) in our modified for years it made great power and etched carbs and valves bad. I think I would waste it before I took the chance with my sled.

Octanee · Dec 26, 2017

Meadow Muffin said:
I don’t know about lowering octane, but be very careful with oxygenated race fuel. They tend to be very corrosive, we ran VP’s Crate HP fuel (oxygenated) in our modified for years it made great power and etched carbs and valves bad. I think I would waste it before I took the chance with my sled.

Thanks for the info, I don't believe it's oxygenated, I should of mentioned the brand, ignite 114 ethanol race fuel. I was thinking to just burn it up by putting very little each tank In, like 1-2L. But maybe I'll be best to just try and resell it

black z · Dec 26, 2017

Octanee said:
Anybody have any input on mixing a ethanol based race fuel into a tank mixed with leaded fuel? I picked up a small pale of ethanol based race fuel incase I couldn't get my av gas, and now I got my av gas but I thought I'd burn it by putting in about half a gallon in per ride, I, got googling and some say ethanol fuels with lead cause it to lower the octane? Hmm.

What is the ethanol based race fuel you speak of? Do you know the specific gravity of it, and the stoichiometric air fuel ratio for it?

Octanee · Dec 26, 2017

black z said:
What is the ethanol based race fuel you speak of? Do you know the specific gravity of it, and the stoichiometric air fuel ratio for it?

http://www.igniteracingfuel.com/114.html
That's the link to the site, I don't understand any of that specific gravity stuff, etc. Again I've read ethanol fuels and lead don't mix as far as further increasing octane. I do appreciate input and anything new to learn!

mixing premium with race gas's

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