Fox Float 3 QS Series versus Fox Zero QS coil overs

From a mechanical standpoint neither really is more plush than another if valved and sprung correctly. From a rider feel standpoint it is a highly controversial topic, but many riders claim a conventional spring/oil combo “feels” more plush. That feeling is due to the oil providing providing some dampening properties but also of how that system works(oil flowing through system spring comp/decomp. Air springs rely on a volume of air compressing to provide dampening therefore the more the volume compresses the harder it becomes, which can give it an initial soft feel but goes to a more progressive feel the farther in the stroke. I have not ridden the QS coil system However I have the QS3s on my Alpha. Overall I’m extremely happy. The beauty of air is the ability to change spring rate and feel of a ride with merely an air pump. A spring set up will provide a little more durability and that plush fluid consistent feel. However it will have to be sprung and valved accordingly for your weight and riding style. If I left something out I’m sorry. Pounding this out between jobs. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. Overall they are both great suspension packages, just have to weigh you needs over wants and the pros and cons of each.
Calli

I had the standard Fox Zero coils at the beginning of last year & hated them. The spring rate was way to soft. I wasn't going to change to stiffer spring's so I sold them. This year I have the new Fox/Burandt Float QS3's with rear shock lock out. Huge improvement over the Zeros & stock Polaris clickers. I really like being able to change the spring rate by adjusting air pressure. Comes in handy when snow conditions vary. The Float's have come a long way & really don't see any negatives with them anymore.

We put Fox shocks on 2-3 Axys sleds a year, and have used both air and spring options (as well as custom valved WE's, etc.)

The Burandt QS3's are our go to shock. We set them and run them, not really much messing around during the season other than to check pressures once in awhile - and we have never had any kind of blowout or issue. They are lighter than a spring shock as well.

BTW - If the QS3 adjuster is not critical for you, I have some new Float 3 RC2's in the suspension for sale section that would save you some cash.

Carramrod said:

From a mechanical standpoint neither really is more plush than another if valved and sprung correctly. From a rider feel standpoint it is a highly controversial topic, but many riders claim a conventional spring/oil combo “feels” more plush. That feeling is due to the oil providing providing some dampening properties but also of how that system works(oil flowing through system spring comp/decomp. Air springs rely on a volume of air compressing to provide dampening therefore the more the volume compresses the harder it becomes, which can give it an initial soft feel but goes to a more progressive feel the farther in the stroke. I have not ridden the QS coil system However I have the QS3s on my Alpha. Overall I’m extremely happy. The beauty of air is the ability to change spring rate and feel of a ride with merely an air pump. A spring set up will provide a little more durability and that plush fluid consistent feel. However it will have to be sprung and valved accordingly for your weight and riding style. If I left something out I’m sorry. Pounding this out between jobs. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. Overall they are both great suspension packages, just have to weigh you needs over wants and the pros and cons of each.
Calli

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The air spring in a float shock is just that: a spring. There is still an oil/piston/shim stack system working inside the shock just like in a coilover to provide compression and rebound damping.

Air can be adjusted to change the spring rate without buying a new spring. Air also provides a progressive spring rate. Some like the more linear feel of a spring shock though. Just personal preference. Personally, I like air for it's anti-bottoming resistance and seems to hold up in the stroke when on edge to keep the sled higher up out of the snow. I check mine maybe once a month on the mountain when I'm riding every weekend and don't see a big variance. Air sleeve maintenance (remove, clean, re-grease) needs to be done once a year to maintain smooth feel and minimum stiction from the air sleeve seals. Lots of people think springs are set-it-and-forget-it, but in my experience spring preload/sag needs to be re-set periodically to maintain the same ride height (spring takes a set and it's free length gets shorter over time). Especially after the first 10 hrs. Then after a couple hundred miles, then re-check annually.

Full disclosure I'm not on a Polaris, but just stating what I've observed on my Cat sleds and in the dirt riding motocross.

boondocker97 said:

The air spring in a float shock is just that: a spring. There is still an oil/piston/shim stack system working inside the shock just like in a coilover to provide compression and rebound damping.

Air can be adjusted to change the spring rate without buying a new spring. Air also provides a progressive spring rate. Some like the more linear feel of a spring shock though. Just personal preference. Personally, I like air for it's anti-bottoming resistance and seems to hold up in the stroke when on edge to keep the sled higher up out of the snow. I check mine maybe once a month on the mountain when I'm riding every weekend and don't see a big variance. Air sleeve maintenance (remove, clean, re-grease) needs to be done once a year to maintain smooth feel and minimum stiction from the air sleeve seals. Lots of people think springs are set-it-and-forget-it, but in my experience spring preload/sag needs to be re-set periodically to maintain the same ride height (spring takes a set and it's free length gets shorter over time). Especially after the first 10 hrs. Then after a couple hundred miles, then re-check annually.

Full disclosure I'm not on a Polaris, but just stating what I've observed on my Cat sleds and in the dirt riding motocross.

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Boonedocker you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to keep it simple an not get too crazy in depth and possibly make things confusing as explanations of suspension can get overwhelming in a hurry. I probably should have spoken more eloquently but I was short on time. And as always suspension maintenance is critical but people seem to not like to believe that until it costs them a bunch of money just ask some of my friends :face-icon-small-hap I had one I harped on all summer to get his suspension serviced. Called me today an way like “I hate you cause you were right my suspension was $600 to service instead of 250 cause I waited too long”
Calli

Carramrod said:

Boonedocker you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to keep it simple an not get too crazy in depth and possibly make things confusing as explanations of suspension can get overwhelming in a hurry. I probably should have spoken more eloquently but I was short on time. And as always suspension maintenance is critical but people seem to not like to believe that until it costs them a bunch of money just ask some of my friends :face-icon-small-hap I had one I harped on all summer to get his suspension serviced. Called me today an way like “I hate you cause you were right my suspension was $600 to service instead of 250 cause I waited too long”
Calli

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Dandy girl, you are not a cheap date ???

rab said:

sounds good , maybe i should ask this question ,

How does a linear feeling compare to a progressive feeling ?

Will one make me feel more in contact with the terrain over the other ?

Will the Air remove the small trail chatter ?

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Generally speaking, coil shocks handle chatter a little better because you're not having to overcome what a lot of people call 'stiction' from the larger seals on air springs. Truthfully though, air shocks have gotten pretty dialed, and in constant, repeated impacts, they stay pretty loose. Damping is also a big deal when it comes to chatter so springs obviously aren't the only consideration.

A progressive air spring ramps up, meaning it takes proportionally more force for each additional inch of travel. That equalizes out at some point between impact force and spring ramp up but it becomes gradual. Done well, this can give your suspension kind of a bottomless feel. Linear coil springs will just move your ski or skid out of the way easier but also all the way to bottom out.

That's just the shocks though, skids especially have their own rising or falling rate designed into the parallelograms. That's why some sleds work better with air shocks in the rear, some with coils. But a combination of progressive air shock with progressive rear suspension can end up cutting off travel when you reach that force equalization too soon. That's why the M-series sleds sucked with air shocks. The skids were designed to be progressive and used with a linear coil shock. The combination of progressive skid plus really progressive air shock was too much.

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure.

rab said:

so in those M's where the susp ans shocks were progressive did give you a false bottoming out feeling ? to ask it another way did it bottom out before it actually bottomed out ? Does that rob you of your susp travel ?

so the stiction may make the shock a little harder to move on its initial movement , much like the static friction is higher than the kinetic friction .Is this noticeable when moving or does it only become apparent when leaving from a stopped position ?

How much of a temperature change can they tolerate before the air pressure needs to be adjusted to regain the initial handling ?

How about an altitude change can they do a 3500 elevation change without needing an adjustment ?

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M-series: yep, exactly. Everyone either ran them so they only got 1/2 to 2/3 travel, or sagged way too much to get full travel.

Stiction: the drag will always be more with air seals but yeah, static is where it matters most. That's why a lot of the time if you climb on a sled with air shocks that's been sitting a while,, it kind of sticks a little before they compress. Coil shocks do this too if they're sitting at top out but usually not as bad. As far as maintaining constant movement....meh...it's essentially the same thing as damping at that point. It's still there and it's probably measurable but I'd say it's pretty much a non issue these days. They've gotten pretty good at minimizing it. But if you do want really loose feeling suspension with the minimum resistance/support, I'd probably look at coils.

Temp change is really only noticeable in my opinion on warmer days, banging on hardpack whooped trails. Compared to something like mountainbike shocks which are much lower volume and higher pressures, it's way more noticeable on the bike stuff. Sleds, not as much. Damping oil heating up is a bigger issue and that effects both kinds of springs. Outside of sunlight, that's what heats up the air chambers anyway: damping fluid warming up.

You might notice changes in altitude more. I have. But it's like 6k differentials. I notice it in BC where that happens a lot, starting at like 2k and riding up to the 7s. It's minor though. Maybe a few PSI. You can calculate it if you look up pressure differentials with altitude. Of course high pressure/low pressure weather changes that too.

But generally speaking sled air shocks have gotten pretty good (and realistically we're only talking about Fox when it comes to that). The first ones sucked. Bad. For lots of different reasons. A lot of people gave up on them back then and never looked back.

rab said:

Will the handling have a noticeable change with the changing variables as discussed above or is all tolerable ?

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I doubt you'll notice a thing. Doesn't hurt the check them though. They will slowly leak a little over time (like months)

I check my pressures a few times a season (like 2-3) on my proclimb with all floats. I can say I like those shocks better than the walkers on my axys....by a mile.

I almost bought the QS3 coil overs. My buddy had them on the front of his 16 DOO when I rode it for a day. Impressive shocks....With that said I went with Raptor Kinetics.... The ride quality on these are just as good if not better. IMO, better but I'm not gonna argue that. Good luck on your choices! we have some kick ass options out there now days.