"Totally Non-Biased Comparison Video"

Sharp · Feb 19, 2015

I bought two 2014 Pro's for $9200.00 ea. last October. I also bought one SE Viper and had Outlaw Motorsports install a MCX 270hp kit with some other aftermarket parts. Total price $23000.00. All three are great sleds. My main sled is the Viper and the two Pro's are loners. I would have bought a Ski Doo but at the time they cost more then the Pro's and because they were loners I didn't want to spend the extra money. These sleds are paid off, which I don't understand why someone takes out a lone to buy a toy. Dumb people make stupid decisions. That's one reason sleds cost what they cost, because people can get loans to buy them. Same thing with medical insurance raising medical costs.

The video seems very biased to me like most posts I see on this forum. Like chris said it's good to have the 4 different manufactures to choice from. If you start eliminating your options than the price will go up even more. Then all the dumb people can get bigger loans for their toys. Please people don't be so stupid. I'm tired of supporting your food stamps and housing and everything else the government like to give away.

The Pro is a great sled. I can say the same for Cat, Doo and Yamaha. Don't write off one just because one issue, They all have issues. I would like Yamaha to put their engine in a Pro and then read all the comment on the poo forum site. I would turbo one for myself but I'm sure I would have to re-enforce the sled so it could handle the power. It would be like a tin can.

Sharp · Feb 19, 2015

[QUOTE=Jaynelson;

You should really come to Montana this weekend. It will be fun.

christopher · Feb 19, 2015

801 said:
There already there! Almost willing to pay ya to take them!

Killer Time Racing · Feb 19, 2015

christopher said:

Please don't fill the body of your new Pro RMK with snow like the one in this video !!

I have feed scales here and put 124# of dry snow on it cause that's what you were riding in and let me tell you its more than a 55 gallon barrel ..

Tried it with wet plowed and packed snow and it was still more than a commercial trash can could hold ...

I'm a flat lander and my Subscription is now not going to be renewed .. can't trust any of the non biased articles now !! Will double up on Snow Tech , thanks for the great articles over the years but now I doubt some of the information (A Lot)

Seems Your like Anthony Oberty and we are all like the previous poster ..
..We see how slow we can creep and how deep we can get stuck !!! And you take a 100MPH start to jump a ditch !! Fun for Some ??? others like to Ride Mountain Sleds

CO Powder · Feb 19, 2015

Sharp said:
These sleds are paid off, which I don't understand why someone takes out a lone to buy a toy. Dumb people make stupid decisions. That's one reason sleds cost what they cost, because people can get loans to buy them.

Because not all of us have $23k cash lying around... arrogant much?

I will borrow on a string of sleds and end up with a paid for one after a few years. When you pay for them more quickly than they depreciate you can gain on the payments and reach that goal of being able to buy one outright. I am dumb because I make payments on a sled? Lots of dumb people out there then buddy. It sure seems a lot smarter than watching my friend buy $5-6k sleds, wrench on them more and sell them for nothing because they are worn out. That is throwing good money after bad. For a few grand each year, I gain on it more slowly but always have a new, under warranty sled to ride.

They cost what they cost because it is what the market will bear, not because you can finance it.

BTW, is your house paid for or did you take a loan out for that? CRAZY!

Solarguy · Feb 19, 2015

Jaynelson said:
So if Polaris has hung it's hat on being the lightest, and Yamaha/Cat have hung their's on being the most powerful....who seems to have struck a more popular cord? I don't understand how obviously promoting the least popular, least progressive, least involved mountain sled brand is beneficial to the Snowest Cause....it would seem the opposite, IMO....but to each his own.

Big HP is fun, no one is going to deny that. I'm sure all of us would have fun whacking the throttle on an 800lb 350hp sled a few times. Or if you had 2 similar sleds and all else equal, one had more power - I'm sure all of us would choose that one. But that's not the case.

My favorite sledding days are when it's deep and you are trying to punch through to an area and that pretty much takes all day. Stuck, rolling, lifting, etc, all....day. Turbos, 3", whatever, doesn't matter....the better riders get stuck less because of line choice and that's about it. The light sled, that's able to be rolled all day without issue, and is (relatively) easy to get un-stuck by yourself....is a big advantage. I've gained a ton of confidence in those areas riding a pro the past few years, and it's really helped my riding. By the numbers, the Pro shouldn't be THAT much different in those regards....but it is. The only thing similar are the new T3's. We've had 4-strokes that came with us that basically couldn't ride the terrain we frequent due to lack of roll-over valve, so that indicates something I suppose, lol. Also, the light, narrow feel is really confidence inspiring as I get more in to jumping/drops.

Now, most people don't ride like that, or don't ride like that very often. But many fancy that they do/will, and a Pro is definitely a tool that will help you get there. There is a big difference between being ABLE to wrestle something to do what you want, and being comfortable with it.

Exactly!!!!! You explained my and many others thoughts perfectly. I also ride with a group that fits your description to the T, on a good ride...no easy way in or out....
You will be stuck and by yourself on most rides unless you wait long enough for one of the group to find you. As stated by Jay, the better riders get stuck less due to skill level/sled handling and not hp.
Well stated Jay!

slash · Feb 19, 2015

thinkin they musta worked real hard to pack that much snow into the pro

shattuck · Feb 19, 2015

Did I do the math right? The Polaris had the equivalent of 14.8 gallons of water stuck to it? Are they sure a 10 pound rock didn't accidentally get stuck in the tunnel? Can we believe the horsepower figures?

sledheader · Feb 19, 2015

shattuck said:
Did I do the math right? The Polaris had the equivalent of 14.8 gallons of water stuck to it? Are they sure a 10 pound rock didn't accidentally get stuck in the tunnel? Can we believe the horsepower figures?

Unit weight of water=62.4 lb/ft^3

1 ft^3=7.48 gallons

(14.8/7.48)*62.4=123.4 lbs

Yep you did it right!

BLSDEEP · Feb 19, 2015

christopher said:
You are not allowed to discuss Power to Weight ratios at altitude in this thread because Yamaha is only "subsidizing" the least expensive factory authorized fully warranted $2,000 turbo on the market, rather than installing it and selling it directly that way.

No Pro rider cares if you only have 105hp at altitude.
Power isn't the issue, its all about the weight.:face-icon-small-hap
And with or without loaded snow in the track, the Yamahas are absolutely the heaviest sled in the mountain segment, not one single Yamaha rider will argue that point!

Now of course there is absolutely NOTHING stopping a Pro Rider from installing any number of great after market turbos like a BoonDocker, other than the fact that it costs $5,295+, Voids the factory warranty on your brand new sled and requires an engine rebuild every 1-2 seasons depending on use?

And you know what?
I LOVE riding with guys on Pros, and on XMs, and on pretty much every other sled out there. And I love letting them toss a leg over my boosted yamahas and seeing the big smile on their face when they pinch the throttle and feel 225hp light up underneath them.! Everyone gets a kick out of that.

God Bless the fact that our industry is still healthy enough to support FOUR manufacturers producing some radically different sleds.

How freaking BORING would life be if everyone on the mountain was riding exactly the same sled?

Like buying a new truck, its GOOD to have choices and be able to express yourself in your vehicle and be different from everyone else!

Individualism is what made America great.

Now, if we only had some GOOD SNOW so we could all go RIDING for a change!!!!!!

Great post, but the issue of a completely dishonest video designed to fool and or mislead people has been produced by Yamaha affiliates. Why???
Yama-ho has the 4 stroke market locked. There will always be a boosted 4 stroke cult following.. Why not Build on that, and stop with underhanded BS.

polaris dude · Feb 19, 2015

Christopher you gave your yamaha is great speech but neglected to say what you thought of the subject in this thread - the video. Do you think that was a non-biased comparison?

Does it seem likely to you that all 3 sleds were riding the same conditions(as opposed to keeping 1 on the trail)?

From my honest experience I have gone out in 3 feet of fresh sugary snow and I have gone out in a foot and a half of new and heavy snow and I have never seen that type of build up on the a-arms and skis; and yet there is absolutely no snow on the hood either???

BLSDEEP · Feb 19, 2015

christopher said:
FWIW..
Ryan is no fan of Yamaha, nor of 4S sleds in general.
Much to his chagrin, He was honestly, genuinely SURPRISED by how the sled ran that day.

he is NOT in love with it, not by a long shot.
But he thought it was the first real significant step forward for Yamaha in many years in the mountain segment.

"IF" Yamaha offers the Viper with a Factory Installed Turbo, then we may see the very first Deep Powder Challenge with a 4S sled in it next year.

Sorry, the video is still total BS, and everybody knows it.
SNOWEST should officially do this test with reps from all brands present to oversee the protocol, and print the results in the Magazine.... once and for all.

I would read that.

sledheader · Feb 19, 2015

I guess I don't get all the argument between brands. Just ride what you want. Who cares if somebody wants to ride something different. If you are talking crap to a buddy or a buddy is talking crap to you on the mountain, challenge them. It's going to boil down to the rider 99% of the time anyhow.

Killer Time Racing · Feb 19, 2015

Jaynelson said:
Now, most people don't ride like that, or don't ride like that very often. But many fancy that they do/will, and a Pro is definitely a tool that will help you get there. There is a big difference between being ABLE to wrestle something to do what you want, and being comfortable with it.

Most do or want to ride this way in any region ... The Pro is the correct Tool!!

Asphalt and Ice racing is the where the Yaamaha shines ..

snowmobiler · Feb 19, 2015

Well stated Jay!

jay is awesome.

christopher · Feb 19, 2015

polaris dude said:
Christopher you gave your yamaha is great speech but neglected to say what you thought of the subject in this thread - the video. Do you think that was a non-biased comparison?

Does it seem likely to you that all 3 sleds were riding the same conditions(as opposed to keeping 1 on the trail)?

From my honest experience I have gone out in 3 feet of fresh sugary snow and I have gone out in a foot and a half of new and heavy snow and I have never seen that type of build up on the a-arms and skis; and yet there is absolutely no snow on the hood either???

I contacted RYAN HARRIS and asked him that point blank.

This is HIS REPLY..

===========================
RYAN HARRIS, SNOWEST MAGAZINE.

This is legit.
But there are a few background notes that I find important to point out:

1. Both the Pro and the Summit were equipped with electric start.
That's why the wet weights are higher than what we have measured in our own testing.
The Viper is electric start, too...

2. The Summit was an SP, not an X.

3. The Viper 153 was not a Float-equipped SE version.
It was the base model with coil spring shocks.

3. The snow conditions on the day of this ride were what I would define as March snow: dense powder up high and heavy wet down low. And the tree weights were done at a lower elevation where the snow was heavier. But all three sleds were ridden for a couple hours, filled up, ridden around again and driven right to the hanging scale. In my opinion, that's why the weights on the Pro and Summit are higher than what the Cat video showed.

4. I was shocked.
As stated in the video, it still feels like you're riding a 4-stroke and it still feels heavier in the snow, but with the 180 boost kit, it was light enough to feel fun. Wasn't expecting that.

5. The results have already been pointed out to some extent in Cat's tree-weight video.
The ProClimb chassis just doesn't carry as much weight in snow.

6. It doesn't mean the Pro and Summit suddenly suck (although social media will probably take it that way anyway).
All I take it to mean is that Yamaha has made big progress toward having a 4-stroke mountain sled that is competitive with the 8s and is actually fun to ride. It is fun to ride.

That's my take. Read into it however you want.

-Ryan Harris

Here's some iphone shots I took on that ride before the weigh in up higher on the mountain.

Flame on...

icr · Feb 19, 2015

Haha there's more snow stuck to the TRACK of the skidoo and Polaris than the yamaha. I didn't know yamaha had a new snow repellent rubber compound.

Sharp · Feb 19, 2015

The problem with that picture is the polaris running boards don't hold that much snow. They have the best stock boards out there. Where did the riders feet go? Looks like snows been added or something fishy going on.

Sharp · Feb 19, 2015

CO Powder said:
Because not all of us have $23k cash lying around... arrogant much?

I will borrow on a string of sleds and end up with a paid for one after a few years. When you pay for them more quickly than they depreciate you can gain on the payments and reach that goal of being able to buy one outright. I am dumb because I make payments on a sled? Lots of dumb people out there then buddy. It sure seems a lot smarter than watching my friend buy $5-6k sleds, wrench on them more and sell them for nothing because they are worn out. That is throwing good money after bad. For a few grand each year, I gain on it more slowly but always have a new, under warranty sled to ride.

They cost what they cost because it is what the market will bear, not because you can finance it.

BTW, is your house paid for or did you take a loan out for that? CRAZY!

Sorry, rub you the wrong way. It's not arrogant just the truth. Homes are completely different, poor comparison. Better comparison would be leasing a vehicle. Sleds cost what they cost because people are willing to pay what they pay for them. That's simple. They can pay that price because they can get a lone for it. I agree with buying new over used but just not the way you choice to do it. Save money, pay cash, sale the sled in a few year, take that money add more and buy new again. Same concept you doing right now but you don't have to pay interest and finance charges. That's a smarter way to do it and in the end you'll have more money. It take more self control to do it that way, which most people that are poor lack.

noob · Feb 19, 2015

I own a 2015 viper 162, a 2015 polaris pro 163. Been out 3-4 times now and every time the viper skid comes back with half or less then half of the snow then my pro does.

also interesting to note that the first ride out with the viper, I had a buddy who had his 15 ts 174 doo and when we put the sleds in the trailer he was the one that noticed his skid had a fair bit more snow in it then the viper skid. You guys can take it for what its worth and deny or accept but from what I've seen it's true. Dont' ask me why the viper clears snow out better, but it does.

fyi, i love to ride both the viper and my pro when my 14 year old lets me ride the pro. I don't have my head shoved up the viper pipe and trying to blow smoke up your arses. both fun sleds.

"Totally Non-Biased Comparison Video"

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