How are we supposed to think, when we do more than one sport?

snoman159 said:

There are a select few extremists, and then a lot of good 'ol folks that fall right down the middle, myself included.

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That's not the case out west in the rockies. The MAJORITY of Xcountry skiers and snowshoers would rather spit on you than say hello. Snowboarders are cool, but they're usually on a sled too.
Also, you can't compare the closing of a trail in MN to the closing of entire mountain ranges out west, and there are no bars at 10,000 ft.

I realize that this is no comparison to the problems out west, but I was just stating some examples back home. We still have problems with trail closings, albeit for different reasons. The thing is we are all fighting for the same cause, keeping the trails and countryside open for public use. The point of a national park is for it to be preserved and enjoyed, not restricted to the use of only a few.

I was out in Cooke City two years ago and ran into a couple of skiers and snowboarders and both of them seemed to really be put off by sleds. Given the atmosphere at Cooke, they were probably at the wrong place. If they want to ride some of these areas too, they also need to be cooperative, rather than shut us down and push us out so they can carve 3 lines that are less than 2 miles from town. Unless of course they take their SNOWMOBILE out there so they can go ride further from town.

Take care to understand the goals and nature of the clubs you are a member of. Always use your own thoughts; gathering independent information to form your own thoughts about things you want to stand for. If your club is being directed by an opposing view or in direct conflict to your beliefs, but overall similar goals, voice your own beliefs, compromises and justification. Some clubs have been taken over by extreme activists, and followed blindly by many. You do have the power to influence them by providing facts, feedback and a continued presence. If they are totally misrepresenting you and you believe your $ is being used against you leave them and find a club that is closer to your position.

I see it often in clubs there is a good idea and a charge to action without much thought and generally in the quickest and easiest path.

I work in the environmental sciences department for a government organization. I have strong beliefs about the environment and individual rights. There are many of us that walk the fine line in the middle. We actually have major influence as many with extreme views look to us as people with a portion of their view and curious of our belief of the opposition.

I have been very impressed with the leadership and intelligence of the WSSA, SAW, and some others that often post on here. I will join a state Snowmobile club and a local recreation club. I am reluctant to join some of the larger fishing and wildlife (not hunting) groups due to their direct opposition to sensible compromises and overwhelming ideological emphasis.

If you support a club like a hunting group or perhaps wildlife group ensure that your opinions are clear. It is easy to support a specific thing like not having 4-wheelers in a hunting area they are not supposed to be, and that support being used to ban all off-road vehicles. I don’t want ATVs, trucks, rafts, hikers, whomever digging up salmon redds in the middle of rivers, and steams but I need to be very careful of the way I approach this, as I believe there can be simpler ways of getting this across without supporting an extreme environmental view that will take a way my other recreational opportunities. Clear correspondence within an organization and to elected official’s mail readers and phone filters is the way to protect these rights.

Maybe membership in many clubs is needed to get a concise point across. I will gladly write and call when asked to from the leaders of my groups. Also I will often contact my club leadership with concerns of conflicting beliefs.

You can impact the world with an idea, phone, e-mail, and letter.

I'm still figuring thsione in my head, but damnit powederminer I think you may have it there!

snoman159, I'm confused. You state that the trails are groomed with gas tax money, and that everyone pays. Are you sure about that? I think someone has feed you a load of half-truths. Don't know about MN for sure, but I do know how the gas tax money is handled nation wide.

First snowmobiles don't run on maintained roads, that gas tax money is suppose to cover. False Taxation. Same thing for boats, tractors, etc.... Anyway, so they worked out a deal with the government. Estimate how much gas goes in off highway vehicles and refund the tax to the states for recreational use.

So, the states are suppose to take the gas tax money and give 33% to the snowmobilers, 33% to the non-snowmobilers, and 33% to shared use areas. But, all that tax money comes from snowmobilers. Skiers don't pay a dime, but they get 50% somehow. Basically, they complained that it wasn't fair that we got our money back. And, it's a forced recreational support tax, so it's probably not fair, but they should get their own money, IMO.

Wade, a certain portion of our gas tax is set aside specifically for snowmobile trail grooming. This has been an issue with some of the extremist environmentalist groups in the area, as they are trying to get that funding removed and turned towards their causes. Here is an article that I hope explains things a bit better: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/aboutdnr/budget/budgetplan/natresfund.html. The last paragraph in the Revenues section is what I'm trying to explain. They have no way of monitoring what fuel goes into recreational vehicles so the state gives a portion (percentage) of the total gas tax income based on past numbers of recreational use. This is indeed a state gas tax, not federal if that is what you are getting at. Minnesota is choosing to provide money for recreation, which I feel is a good thing because they are providing for a wide range of outdoor activities. MRR is trying to have this money diverted to suck more land out of the hands of the people, rather than support responsible recreation like they claim they are all about.

Thanks for the link. Very interesting. Never thought of liberals in MN, trying to shut everything down. Very interesting discussions over on HCS site. Some lady representative wants to take away your state gas tax refund, to shut down sledding trails. Looks like you get about $29.9 million in gas tax refund from the state. Hard to say how much your getting from the feds.

Very interesting. Never thought of liberals in MN, trying to shut everything down.

That ain't the half of it Wade. Smae group MRR wants a "quiet" lake in every country. They want to canoe with out hearing a motor, etc. It's a widely known fact, at least in MN that we are one fo the most Socialistic states in the Union. Never forget this is the state that put out Paul Wellstone.