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COW Forest Plan proposes 238,800 acres for additional Wilderness

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newtrout

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2001
752
637
93
Central Washington
True enough. However I happen to be on the other side, a former logger displaced by the Spotted Owl issues. A couple of decades ago I fur trapped on skis in some of the Wilderness area that in recent years has had snowmobile Wilderness trespass. Nothing that I do has anything to do with an enviro agenda, it has to do with public owners of the Forest having a fair chance to recreate. WMC was created because I am not an environmentalist, at one time I paid dues to BRC about 20 years ago. But things have changed in 20 years on the winter Forest. There is more than the one winter use, snowmobile riding, that needs accommodation of the accessible non-Wilderness Forest. Winter non-motorized Forest users need some areas for their use.

Thanks for the discussion.

Hmmmm. Hints of the real problem for skiers...... Access. Maybe we should look into getting the skiers closer to Wilderness, rather than bringing the Wilderness closer to the skiers....... Snowpark at Beverly, anyone???

In the meantime, until we're 'banned', we'll keep working on keeping sleds out of WMC's playground. Once we're locked out of the Teanaway, the skiers will just have to deal with those law-breaking sledders on their own....

P.S. Nice tag line WMC...
 
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WMC

Banned
Apr 27, 2010
233
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Hmmmm. Hints of the real problem for skiers...... Access. Maybe we should look into getting the skiers closer to Wilderness, rather than bringing the Wilderness closer to the skiers....... Snowpark at Beverly, anyone???

In the meantime, until we're 'banned', we'll keep working on keeping sleds out of WMC's playground. Once we're locked out of the Teanaway, the skiers will just have to deal with those law-breaking sledders on their own....

P.S. Nice tag line WMC...

Your Beverly Sno Park idea is a good one and I and WMC folks will help with it. We discussed it last year here, and thanks again for a great idea! And many thanks for all of your and Blindman etc folks efforts at placing signs on the Wilderness Boundary, and for taking heat in advocating against snomos in Wilderness- very commendable! I will report to you when I go up to that area and see no snomos or tracks in Wilderness and then will thank you again!

So if someone spends money on a snowmobile and etc then they should be in charge of Forest Policy? So if someone acts all loud and aggressive and disrespectful of USFS Officials charged by Law and Policy to manage the Forest, then you think that you win? Please keep up that strategy, it is fun to watch. And in anticipation of some of your comebacks, please note that we have always advocated to include snowmobile use, and advocated that USFS please manage the Forest in some balance for all of the public.

It is not difficult to understand that non-motorized Forest users are the clear majority of users for offhighway winter recreation. Snowmobile riding belongs on the Forest as well. Separation is needed, some balance of uses as well. By the way, skiers will avoid areas of high snowmobile useage.

USFS has not denied that there has been no planning or consideration, designation or NEPA process for offroad snowmobile riding in the areas or our advocacy. It has occurred while USFS has ignored it and the proper issues surrounding offroad riding. Even some grooming programs are in question on that basis. Please study NEPA and tell me if it says undesignated offroad snowmobile riding is allowable especially without the Lawfully required process. Please let us know what you think the chances are that all of the offroad riding in pristine high-altitude areas will stand under the proper process including input from all of the public, not just from some loud and aggressive snowmobile riders who believe that their use supersedes everyone else.

When the proper evaluation of this offroad riding is examined per the NEPA 1969, perhaps you and other riders will then understand. You are fighting the wrong fight, collaboration with other Forest users to find solutions would have been your best strategy. Your snomo guys against the world strategy is fun to watch, so we shall see in this day and age if public policy in the end yields to that or follows Policy and Law in the greater public interest. Just one of the Organizations supporting many of the WMC goals has 8 million members, and there are 1/2 dozen other Organizations talking about the issues of our advocacy. If the proper NEPA process occurs, should these Organizations get mobilized someday, do the loud snomo guys think they will shut down or scare away 8 to 10 million Americans? We- the 'sides'- should be at the table talking instead of at meetings trying to dominate.

PS Some one hacked my tagline so if they do it again, well hardy harr harr...you so funny. Nobody looks here anyway except you guys and I have been trying to reach you all with ideas of respectful discussion for a year, otherwise I would not be here.
 
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diamonddave

Chilly’s Mentor
Lifetime Membership
Apr 5, 2006
5,577
3,890
113
Wokeville, WA.
hahaha.your so full of ****.

By thumping his chest with "I told you so" rhetoric. He's counting his chickens before the eggs have hatched in the lion's den. He's like the retarded kid you see that makes obscene gestures and says outlandish crap. You just have to ignore it. He needs the attention.
 
N

newtrout

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2001
752
637
93
Central Washington
So if someone spends money on a snowmobile and etc then they should be in charge of Forest Policy? So if someone acts all loud and aggressive and disrespectful of USFS Officials charged by Law and Policy to manage the Forest, then you think that you win?

Certainly not. Nor should Forest policy for an area be set by two people who rarely even use it; at the expense of the majority user of that area.

Who thinks they have won here? I'm pleased that the Cle Elum meeting was represented by the folks that actually use the area. Hopefully that helps the USFS understand who they are impacting with their decisions. We certainly haven't won anything, and we most likely going to lose a great deal.

I must have missed the loud, aggressive, disrespectful behavior. I saw some frustration when USFS managers avoided answering certain questions; and I saw some emotion from folks faced with the loss of areas they've ridden for the past 20 years.

Nobody looks here anyway except you guys and I have been trying to reach you all with ideas of respectful discussion for a year, otherwise I would not be here.

I'm a little confused why you are still here? There are no more opportunities for collaboration. You chose your bedmates and have your desired result.
 
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DOO DAWG

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2007
548
145
43
Arlington Wa. USA
. You chose your bedmates and have your desired result.


I was wondering about this myself.....

"True enough. However I happen to be on the other side, a former logger displaced by the Spotted Owl issues. A couple of decades ago I fur trapped on skis in some of the Wilderness area that in recent years has had snowmobile Wilderness trespass. "

Now are not THESE type of people (pugetropolans):noidea:the ones who took away your chosen livelyhood, and then made your traps illegal????


:flypig::flypig::flypig: THIS would happen before I would join their causes after that!

Doesn't make sense. AS I tell many hunters.....they will use you 'till they don't need you - then your way of life will become their target, and many don't listen.....as it is already happening! Only 2 of many.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,81383.0.html

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,81122.0.html
 
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WMC

Banned
Apr 27, 2010
233
34
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I was wondering about this myself.....

"True enough. However I happen to be on the other side, a former logger displaced by the Spotted Owl issues. A couple of decades ago I fur trapped on skis in some of the Wilderness area that in recent years has had snowmobile Wilderness trespass. "

Now are not THESE type of people (pegetropolans):noidea:the ones who took away your chosen livelyhood, and then made your traps illegal????


:flypig::flypig::flypig: THIS would happen before I would join their causes after that!

Doesn't make sense. AS I tell many hunters.....they will use you 'till they don't need you - then your way of life will become their target, and many don't listen.....as it is already happening! Only 2 of many.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,81383.0.html

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,81122.0.html

The pristine mountains were taken from me, many others, and generations before me of mountain folks willing to walk on skis or snowshoes for hours to reach those summits. Those pristine mountains were taken by snowmobile riding that was unplanned, not designated, and it appears on further study that to allow it is unlawful. USFS knowledge of what areas are ridden regularly is now documented by your many comments submitted, thanks. That does not suggest that snowmobile riding is inherently wrong. But there are effects. Management is needed. I do not pay dues to anyone nor do I support things that I do not believe in. BRC was the last advocacy I paid into aside from NRA. But in spite of that, there must be a balance of uses and consideration of the effects- management. SO who do you think would annoy me more- some of the "Seattle" activists interested in preserving pristine mountains or the "Seattle" snomo riders who now ride into formerly pristine areas for a while and then assume it belongs to them...without it ever being given for snowmobile riding?

BTW, I see similarity decades apart between the snomo "all mine and you will never take it so I will not talk or compromise, and just shut up" and loggers who would have never believed what happened back in the day. Did not believe it it until years later as they were getting retrained for what many though loser jobs when logging got shut down. There are other folks who deserve to use the winter Forest as well, think about someone else for a change.
 
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WMC

Banned
Apr 27, 2010
233
34
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Certainly not. Nor should Forest policy for an area be set by two people who rarely even use it; at the expense of the majority user of that area.

Who thinks they have won here? I'm pleased that the Cle Elum meeting was represented by the folks that actually use the area. Hopefully that helps the USFS understand who they are impacting with their decisions. We certainly haven't won anything, and we most likely going to lose a great deal.

I must have missed the loud, aggressive, disrespectful behavior. I saw some frustration when USFS managers avoided answering certain questions; and I saw some emotion from folks faced with the loss of areas they've ridden for the past 20 years.



I'm a little confused why you are still here? There are no more opportunities for collaboration. You chose your bedmates and have your desired result.

Well you were talking to me above, or about me. Two of us could not really influence much, eh? I think it is the issues that we advocate and the other groups that we bring into this that are important. But if it makes you feel better to say just two guys would do all of the stuff that you are afraid of, ok fine.

I have a theory that there are good folks who ride snowmobiles, no reason to change that idea. Folks in this advocacy and USFS seem to like the idea that we try for dialogue, but few or none others on the non-motorized side really even want to try to talk to this 'side.'

I am told today's meeting in Seattle went differently. I am told there were "two snowmobilers" there? Surely more than that.
 
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eddy

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
Jul 8, 2001
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Sammamish WA
Seattle Meeting

Looked to be about equal numbers of skiers/hikers and snowmobilers. A few mountain bikers were also present.
 
D
Nov 26, 2007
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Wenatchee, Wa
WMC, in my opinion you greatly diminish your position when you attack people here for a "all mine" attitude. Over four million acres of the National Forest in Washington state are already wilderness. Forty percent of the national forest in Washington State is off limits to the majority of the people who actually use these public grounds (by the Forest Services own study). Any other argument is just a straw man to the simple FACT above.
 
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