14 pro bully dog silber bogging

stocksucks!! · Feb 22, 2014

Go back to stock and finish out your year trouble free. And get a whole new system next year ie boost it boondocker aereocharger.. Or just go with a Carl's cycle 900.. But you deserve to have some good times on your expensive toy.. And the turbo kit can collect dust on the shelf and or sell it and let someone else mess with it.. Just my 2 cents

kgra · Feb 22, 2014

So I found a major problem today. Pin the throttle and let off quickly to anything less than 3 percent throttle and pin the throttle again right away and barometric pressure resets even though theres still boost pressure in the charge tube. For example 12psi baro pulling a hill 22psi absolute, 10psi boost. Let off and backbone again quickly and baro will move up to a higher pressure, sometimes as high as 17psi and then the sled starts fueling for a lower elevation which over fuels and bogs. I could watch this and I knew when to brace myself from going over the hood. If I could keep my self from getting below 3 percent throttle I could rip circles and pull hills with ease. I cut my blow off valve spring short enough that at idle it was fluttering open and closed in attempt to blow off all the boost when the throttle was let off, but had no success with making it any better.

This could be everyone's problem, just need to figure out how to fix it. Bigger blowoff valve may help, or maybe a time delay in baro reset can be programed into the ecu for tps below 3 percent for a longer time. Or maybe the ecu can be programmed so the throttle safety switch needs to be closed?

acutah · Feb 22, 2014

Absolutely... If I'm in snow where I can load the sled and go wot to ~1/4 throttle I can usually make it happen.

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snosfun · Feb 22, 2014

Ok now we're getting somewhere.

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RMK900Tractor · Feb 23, 2014

jay_boom said:
Makes sense, thanks I will give them a call.

We road yesterday with the new BOV. Unfortunately this did not cure the "goating" on the 2014 bulldog system but it did make the 2013 Dobec control system run better.

RMK900Tractor · Feb 23, 2014

kgra said:
So I found a major problem today. Pin the throttle and let off quickly to anything less than 3 percent throttle and pin the throttle again right away and barometric pressure resets even though theres still boost pressure in the charge tube. For example 12psi baro pulling a hill 22psi absolute, 10psi boost. Let off and backbone again quickly and baro will move up to a higher pressure, sometimes as high as 17psi and then the sled starts fueling for a lower elevation which over fuels and bogs. I could watch this and I knew when to brace myself from going over the hood. If I could keep my self from getting below 3 percent throttle I could rip circles and pull hills with ease. I cut my blow off valve spring short enough that at idle it was fluttering open and closed in attempt to blow off all the boost when the throttle was let off, but had no success with making it any better.

This could be everyone's problem, just need to figure out how to fix it. Bigger blowoff valve may help, or maybe a time delay in baro reset can be programed into the ecu for tps below 3 percent for a longer time. Or maybe the ecu can be programmed so the throttle safety switch needs to be closed?

Exactly what my buddy's is doing. We also noticed that every time it boggs the check engine light comes on like when you get a DET. We back off the throttle and let the light turn off then quickly stab the throttle to 1/2 to 3/4 and you can punch past the bogging and it runs great. But you are correct that if you let the throttle get back to idle the bogging starts again but not always. I was thinking the sled was going lean and starting to DET????

Another thing we noticed is there is no bogging until the sled reaches 130 degrees. I wonder if the sled is in an enrichment mode at the lower temperature then leans itself out once it hits the 130-ish temps.

One more bit of info, the sled ran great the first day -no bogging at all then just suddenly it started acting up on the ride back to the cabin. I tried adjusting the throttle position sensor +\- but just made the bogging worse.

I was wondering if the exhaust sensor went bad causing the ECU to change the fuel mapping???

TRS · Feb 23, 2014

TRS said:
A 750 ohm resistor will fool the ECU that it is running at a constant 127F.
Disclaimer:This is a test plug and not for field operations.
This would tell you if it is a temp issue.

RMK900Tractor
Hmm, and how about adding the $28

kgra · Feb 23, 2014

If your getting det you prob need more octane. Or you have contact somewhere when the motor torques back. Sounds like you have more then one concern. Check behind the secondary clutch to see if the long intake bolts is contacting the bulkhead. Check all the way around the pipe, and check for turbo to brake caliper contact. Grind out or move things as necessary.

kgra · Feb 23, 2014

So I let my sled idle then adjusted the throttle cable free play adjustment till the tps would read 5-7percent. ObviousI no free play, but this stopped baro from resetting while on and off the throttle quickly. had to redo this every time I shut the sled off and it idled at 3800. Once you moved the sled would continue to creep. It allowed me to boondock hillsides, on and off throttle. Way safer and easier to ride, but still popped quickly sometimes and pulled through without diving the front end of the sled. Also any pulls over 30-45 seconds the Pyro would come up to 1260 ish and the engine would start dropping out for a half sec then continue along for a few seconds, getting hotter to 1280 would happen more often to where you have to turn out.

Not sure this is any good of info but thought I'd share it anyway.

TurboMatt · Feb 24, 2014

kgra said:
So I let my sled idle then adjusted the throttle cable free play adjustment till the tps would read 5-7percent. ObviousI no free play, but this stopped baro from resetting while on and off the throttle quickly. had to redo this every time I shut the sled off and it idled at 3800. Once you moved the sled would continue to creep. It allowed me to boondock hillsides, on and off throttle. Way safer and easier to ride, but still popped quickly sometimes and pulled through without diving the front end of the sled. Also any pulls over 30-45 seconds the Pyro would come up to 1260 ish and the engine would start dropping out for a half sec then continue along for a few seconds, getting hotter to 1280 would happen more often to where you have to turn out.

Not sure this is any good of info but thought I'd share it anyway.

1260-1280 if you are talking probes mounted in the Y-pipe is not too much to worry about. What did AFR's look like?

Ephratafarmer · Feb 24, 2014

kgra said:
If your getting det you prob need more octane. Or you have contact somewhere when the motor torques back. Sounds like you have more then one concern. Check behind the secondary clutch to see if the long intake bolts is contacting the bulkhead. Check all the way around the pipe, and check for turbo to brake caliper contact. Grind out or move things as necessary.

I cut it out so it had nothing to hit on my 12 an 13 sleds, but on my 14 sled I ground nothing out ( per Justins recomendation ) and it hits a little but absolutely causes no detting at all, it just runs. Turbo also touches back of brake casting, but hasen't hit det once all yr. Therefore I believe detting problem not coming from metal hitting, but from fuel or hitting rev limiter. Good luck.

kgra · Feb 24, 2014

Read from the bullydog, which uses the stock probe in the center of the pipe. Dont have o2 gauge. Wasn't suppose to need any gauges with this kit!

I'm actually starting to wonder if the bullydog software has all the neccessay tables for all altitude and boost tuning on with one map.

I tried to call silber and no answer several times each day in the last three days. Wish the tuning software for the bullydog was available to the end user, so we could build our own files.

kgra · Feb 24, 2014

friscospices.com said:
Just keep it greased so it moves freely, You need both orings the large one to capture the set boost pressure to keep the piston closed. The small one to keep the set boost pressure from leaking down on the boost tube. If your sleds BOV caughs when you let off the gas and then when you punch it again and you can build boost to set pressure the its good. If you cant build boost or it pegs out your boost gauge when you let off then you have issues. I think the marks you see are just the tight tolorance the piston had on the cut out holes to relieve the pressure. I polished mine both the pinston and the inside of the bov around the holes. there where a few that had some lip built up on them.

acutah said:
Rode today with the new bov and a couple other changes and almost rolled my sled twice when it bogged. I'm done chasing solutions other than tuning. Either Silber makes this right or I'm forced into spending another 2+k to fix it with a Vipec. What's it gonna be.....

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Did you install a larger blowoff valve or the same thing?
Thx.

acutah · Feb 24, 2014

I used the same thing but it was new.

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DirtBoss · Feb 24, 2014

Has anybody out there had an issue with downloading the stock tune into the ECU?
Put my sled back to stock because it won't run and the Bullydog just freezes up when trying to load stock tune.

kgra · Feb 25, 2014

DirtBoss said:
Has anybody out there had an issue with downloading the stock tune into the ECU?
Put my sled back to stock because it won't run and the Bullydog just freezes up when trying to load stock tune.

If you sent your ecu away to be reflashed you need an unlock code.

RMK900Tractor · Feb 25, 2014

Another update on our progress to eliminate our bogging issue:

- Decided to remove the throttle position sensor to inspect. Noticed the sensor has 2 ways the sensor can engage throttle body actuator. I did not pay close attention when we removed it might have been possible to be indexed incorrectly - I doubt it but possibly. The sensor has a wide slot and a narrow slot for the throttle body to engage. If the sensor is mounted in the larger slots, this would allow the sensor to possibly not rotate consistently. Just a thought.

- Used volt meter to check operation of throttle block stuck throttle switches. Throttle off measured 4k ohms and 2k ohms throttle on. However, during the transition between the switch we would see an open condition. I understand this circuit is designed to give an open condition if the throttle is stuck but I don't think we should see that during normal operating conditions. It might be possible for one of the switches to be sticking and not snap back to normal position causing a short time open condition in the circuit. I imagine the ECU sees this condition and shuts off spark until the switch finally closes. Just my theory. I ended up cutting the end off the switch side of the harness and soldering in a 10K ohm resistor just to bypass the switch circuit entirely.

- I gapped the plugs to .017 (down from .020). I was told that under boost it is better to have a tighter gap.

- Installed a Dobec Gen 4 fuel controller. This kit comes with an air / fuel gauge. I set it into a monitoring mode so I could watch the A/F during the normal operation of the Bulldog.

Results:
- Previously, I was having issues with the check engine light coming on and engine stuttering when I just let off the throttle or was just taking off from a stop. This problem is gone!!

- The sled ran great with no issues from 6-8000 feet.

- Once I got above 8,000 foot level started to have some small bogging issues especially right after I would restart the engine. After 5 minutes the bogging would go away. I think it has something to do with the coolant temperature. When starting after sitting with the sled off for 5 minutes the temp gauge would spike to 150 degrees then drop off to 100 the build back up to 127 - 130. Once the engine got back to the 130 range it would run better.

- Also notice the higher the elevation the worse the sled ran. I then took the Dobec Gen 4 out of monitoring mode into active mode to help the Bulldog correct the fuel. I played around with the settings for a couple of hours and by the end of the day I had the sled running great at high elevations. Only one small area I am still getting a "burp" that must be around the spot where the Dobec starts correcting the fuel.

Next steps:

- Taking the spark plug gaps back to .020. Hoping this solves the initial start-up bogging.

Hope this helps

RMK900Tractor · Feb 25, 2014

TRS said:
RMK900Tractor
Hmm, and how about adding the $28

Sorry, I am not sure what this is?? Can you explain?

Vi-PEC Powersports · Feb 25, 2014

RMK900Tractor said:
Another update on our progress to eliminate our bogging issue:

- Decided to remove the throttle position sensor to inspect. Noticed the sensor has 2 ways the sensor can engage throttle body actuator. I did not pay close attention when we removed it might have been possible to be indexed incorrectly - I doubt it but possibly. The sensor has a wide slot and a narrow slot for the throttle body to engage. If the sensor is mounted in the larger slots, this would allow the sensor to possibly not rotate consistently. Just a thought.

- Used volt meter to check operation of throttle block stuck throttle switches. Throttle off measured 4k ohms and 2k ohms throttle on. However, during the transition between the switch we would see an open condition. I understand this circuit is designed to give an open condition if the throttle is stuck but I don't think we should see that during normal operating conditions. It might be possible for one of the switches to be sticking and not snap back to normal position causing a short time open condition in the circuit. I imagine the ECU sees this condition and shuts off spark until the switch finally closes. Just my theory. I ended up cutting the end off the switch side of the harness and soldering in a 10K ohm resistor just to bypass the switch circuit entirely.

- I gapped the plugs to .017 (down from .020). I was told that under boost it is better to have a tighter gap.

- Installed a Dobec Gen 4 fuel controller. This kit comes with an air / fuel gauge. I set it into a monitoring mode so I could watch the A/F during the normal operation of the Bulldog.

Results:
- Previously, I was having issues with the check engine light coming on and engine stuttering when I just let off the throttle or was just taking off from a stop. This problem is gone!!

- The sled ran great with no issues from 6-8000 feet.

- Once I got above 8,000 foot level started to have some small bogging issues especially right after I would restart the engine. After 5 minutes the bogging would go away. I think it has something to do with the coolant temperature. When starting after sitting with the sled off for 5 minutes the temp gauge would spike to 150 degrees then drop off to 100 the build back up to 127 - 130. Once the engine got back to the 130 range it would run better.

- Also notice the higher the elevation the worse the sled ran. I then took the Dobec Gen 4 out of monitoring mode into active mode to help the Bulldog correct the fuel. I played around with the settings for a couple of hours and by the end of the day I had the sled running great at high elevations. Only one small area I am still getting a "burp" that must be around the spot where the Dobec starts correcting the fuel.

Next steps:

- Taking the spark plug gaps back to .020. Hoping this solves the initial start-up bogging.

Hope this helps

Are you under contract with Silber for doing his R&D ? If not, you should bank every hours and send him a bill....just a thought. Make no sens to me what you are all experiencing.

Vi-pec Powersports

adam5187 · Feb 25, 2014

There is definitely something common with engine temp. Mine runs well but I can get a bog if the temp isnt over 125. After 125 it runs very well. Also just wondering if the problems with some of the kits happen more with the really high altitude? I mostly ride valemount in bc and not many places im over 8000'

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14 pro bully dog silber bogging

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