Yamaha and weight

icr · Nov 30, 2014

This is a sensitive subject for many so let's try to be civil.

I don't understand why Yamaha riders gloss over the weight of their sleds. I feel it's misleading and counterproductive. I think everyone who rides a Yamaha would appreciate a lighter sled if durability wasn't compromised and price didn't increase.

The manufacturers read these forums, Yamaha included. If all they see is "we don't care about weight, it still handles fine" they won't address the issue.

I've ridden many yamahas stock and boosted, the weight is always there. I had a lot of fun on most those sleds but all of them would have been improved if they were lighter. Many were significantly lighter than stock but still heavier than their two stroke competition.

It's bad enough that four strokes can't compete directly with two strokes in displacement to HP out put, but to weigh them down with an extra 50-85lbs is unacceptable. We should demand more from Yamaha. Not thank them for a repurposed arctic cat chassis that is the heaviest of the three two stroke manufactures that they stuck a 131hp motor into. Yes you can pay extra for a turbo. You can spend even more to drop weight. But you shouldn't have to.

Look at yamahas motorcycles and then look at their sleds. We're getting the short end of the stick by a large margin. It would take very little for them to lead the mountain segment but without people asking for it it'll never happen.

n2otoofast4u · Nov 30, 2014

Here we go again

icr · Nov 30, 2014

To illustrate my point the new viper is 11lbs lighter than a 1995 XLT.

motojunkie101 · Nov 30, 2014

No one is going to argue that we don't want a lighter sled.

I bought a viper because my wife's proclimb was more fun to ride than my Boondocker TNytro. The M8 doesn't have the oomph and me high and dry in a chute last year.... so I made the decision to take a loss on the nytro and get a sled that handles better, has the turbo, and has the reliability I want.

The other options do two of those at best. After having hands on my viper there is very little left that is purely arctic cat. It looks similar but the differences are pretty vast.

TRUEBLUEMAX · Nov 30, 2014

Does this thread have a point? I've never heard one person say they love the weight of their Yamaha. Nobody likes it. I feel we deal with it for the other advantages.

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icr · Nov 30, 2014

TRUEBLUEMAX said:
Does this thread have a point? I've never heard one person say they love the weight of their Yamaha. Nobody likes it. I feel we deal with it for the other advantages.

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I suppose that's exactly the point.

Deep Powder Guy · Nov 30, 2014

We can all agree that Yamaha has made huge improvements since the introduction of the RX1.

The Viper will always be a 700 class sled. While the 800's will always be a 800 class right out of the box. Is there any dought which sled will perform better out of the box ?

DPG

icr · Nov 30, 2014

I agree. But I'd like to see yamahas flag ship mountain sled at least compete with those of other manufacturers. Preferably win. They have a 245hp 1liter motorcycle engine. Why does their 1050cc sled engine only produce 131hp. And why do we accept that their 1050cc engine can only compete with two strokes that have almost half the displacement? (There is no 700 class anymore)

noob · Nov 30, 2014

not to knock you icr, but the ony ones really complaining and bitching about the weight of a Yamaha are guys who don't own, never have owned, never will own a Yamaha 4 stroke. They have never ridden a Yamaha 4 stroke and seem to know everything about them. You don't see a 4 stroke guy starting up these kinds of threads.

I don't get it, if you guys dont' like the weight, nobody is putting a gun to your head and telling you to buy,own, or even look at one. ride a polaris, cat or skidoo and leave it alone.

Yamaha is addressing the weight issue. compare the apex to the viper and tell me there isnt' a weight difference. After riding my viper on Friday, I don't think my 15 pro is going to get a whole lot of seat time. my 14 year old boy just got himself a brand new sled. Sorry if someone doesn't like that statement but that's how I feel.

Deep Powder Guy · Nov 30, 2014

I agree yamaha has the technology to compete...Perhaps there just content on being leaders in 4 stroke arena even though one would think having a versatile rounded lineup to address ALL consumer demand make sense to me.

DPG

icr · Nov 30, 2014

noob said:
not to knock you icr, but the ony ones really complaining and bitching about the weight of a Yamaha are guys who don't own, never have owned, never will own a Yamaha 4 stroke. They have never ridden a Yamaha 4 stroke and seem to know everything about them. You don't see a 4 stroke guy starting up these kinds of threads.

I don't get it, if you guys dont' like the weight, nobody is putting a gun to your head and telling you to buy,own, or even look at one. ride a polaris, cat or skidoo and leave it alone.

Yamaha is addressing the weight issue. compare the apex to the viper and tell me there isnt' a weight difference. After riding my viper on Friday, I don't think my 15 pro is going to get a whole lot of seat time. my 14 year old boy just got himself a brand new sled. Sorry if someone doesn't like that statement but that's how I feel.

No offense taken but if you're assuming I've never owned or ridden a Yamaha you're wrong. I love Yamaha engines for their ability to make massive HP with boost and spent a lot of money trying to build a light sled to house one. When that didn't work I moved on, like you suggested.

However, it's your attitude of 'if you don't like it don't buy it' that allows Yamaha to be so slow to change and adapt to the market. They have 3% of the mountain market, obviously I'm not the only one who thinks there's room for improvement.

I think four stroke guys not starting these kinds of threads is the problem. I would love to own a 180HP naturally aspirated Yamaha that weighs 450lb dry. Yamaha is more than capable of building that sled, they just need to hear that that's what people want.

noob · Nov 30, 2014

Glad you never took my remarks personally. I was stating in general that majority of the threads on this topic are guys that have no interest in them but seem to have all the input in the world on them. I guess I am happy with my Yamaha sleds and putting a turbo on them to make them what I like to do. The day that I get tired of it, I will be back on whatever makes me happy. I feel like the viper is what we have been asking for over the last couple years. I've owned 7 tapex's, 3 tnytro's, 1 viper and many polaris sleds. the same can be said for polaris, they have a dynamite chassis with a motor that is lagging behind. The motor is sufficient and I have never had an issue with any of my pro's or polaris motors, but they are capable.

bholmlate · Nov 30, 2014

How do you suggest then we go about demanding that Yamaha step up and produce a light weight throw away sled then? I don't think standing around saying they are heavy underpowered pigs will help things much. You are asking a smart company to spend HUGE amount of money on R&D for a very small niche market that is shrinking every year because of environmental factors. And Yes!! i am sort of fond of being able to breath so some of those factors are not all bad. That is just not a smart financial decision no matter how you look at it.

noob · Nov 30, 2014

bholmlate said:
How do you suggest then we go about demanding that Yamaha step up and produce a light weight throw away sled then? I don't think standing around saying they are heavy underpowered pigs will help things much. You are asking a smart company to spend HUGE amount of money on R&D for a very small niche market that is shrinking every year because of environmental factors. And Yes!! i am sort of fond of being able to breath so some of those factors are not all bad. That is just not a smart financial decision no matter how you look at it.

couldn't agree more. end of the day find a sled that you like and ride it. every manufacture wants to make sure it's cients are happy, but if it aint' gonna make them money it aint' happening. they will make improvements, that's about all we gonna get.

I got sick and tired of gmc and there outdated interior after 6 duramax's and sold my 09 loaded up gmc for a 12 dodge cummins lariat. I couldnt' get back into the outdated interior of a 13 gmc denali duramax fast enough even with the outdated interior.

icr · Nov 30, 2014

bholmlate said:
How do you suggest then we go about demanding that Yamaha step up and produce a light weight throw away sled then? I don't think standing around saying they are heavy underpowered pigs will help things much. You are asking a smart company to spend HUGE amount of money on R&D for a very small niche market that is shrinking every year because of environmental factors. And Yes!! i am sort of fond of being able to breath so some of those factors are not all bad. That is just not a smart financial decision no matter how you look at it.

Light weight and throw away are not synonymous. I think admitting you're disssatisfied with the weight will make a difference. It doesn't take a huge amount of R&D to realize every part of a sled does not need to be steel. if polaris, arctic cat, and skidoo can afford to design and build lighter sleds why can't yamaha?

Again, it's this consumer mentality that is against change that is why Yamaha doesn't change. We don't need a petition or protest or million man march to change their view of the market. But pretending change is impossible or acting like you don't want it is all it takes to guarantee it won't come.

willinwillys · Nov 30, 2014

Yamaha isn't dump!!! You really don't think they have prototype sleds they are working on and have been? Yamaha's deal is every sled has to make 10,000 miles without failure so that's a good reason they weigh more.
I ride Yamaha because there stuff last and I don't have to put a motor or other big money into my sled every year and you can make big power out of them and they hold up. I may know a few things on what Yamaha has in store and let's just say I really hope it all works out.

CatRpillar · Nov 30, 2014

Not sure what bike Yammie has that is running way over 200 hp unless you mean their limited MotoGP replica. That will cost dearly if you can even buy one. And then at that the bike wouldn't be designed for continuous WOT running while being able to start at -30. A bit of apple's and oranges I think. I think a reliable 160 might be doable...

As for weight compared to everything but Poo's tin can special they are now within 40 lbs or so. So I think 160 hp and 480lbs at current prices is legit. About what a a can, header, flash and battery will do....

icr · Nov 30, 2014

CatRpillar said:
Not sure what bike Yammie has that is running way over 200 hp unless you mean their limited MotoGP replica. That will cost dearly if you can even buy one. And then at that the bike wouldn't be designed for continuous WOT running while being able to start at -30. A bit of apple's and oranges I think. I think a reliable 160 might be doable...

As for weight compared to everything but Poo's tin can special they are now within 40 lbs or so. So I think 160 hp and 480lbs at current prices is legit. About what a a can, header, flash and battery will do....

The apex is 165 hp stock now.

If they had 160hp and 480lbs I'd be happy too. They have 131hp and 530lb. That's embarrassing. You mention current prices then add $1000+ in aftermarket parts that void warranty. I want to see Yamaha competitive at stock levels/prices, not mod to stock.

icr · Nov 30, 2014

And you're absolutely right that it's their race bike making 245hp, my point was it wouldn't take much to detune that engine to 180hp and stick it in a sled with a warranty.

n2otoofast4u · Nov 30, 2014

You are asking for something attainable. But to reach those weight numbers the ****er would cost 25k...

Yamaha and weight

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