Got spanked by an alpine turbo today- suggestions??

stonehands1 · Mar 1, 2013

On the T1200 cat full race with 174 2.5 keeping the front end down was not an option. Timbersled helped but still had to pedal it in steep and deep. Cut the paddles down to less than 2 inch and it was a huge diff. At track speeds above 100mph it was just to much paddle. After trimming it climbed at a faster ground speed do to having more track on the ground.
I realize that its not similar to your setup but point is with huge track speeds long paddles just weren't needed.

av8er · Mar 1, 2013

Cutting down track fro 3"

That's a hard concept to perceive , cutting my $1000 track, but a 2.75" would probably be about perfect. It's a lot of work, and impossible to fix if it's a mistake. the 3" is a hooking up S.O.B. we'll try what Kevin at KMOD suggested and see what happens, I also always ride my sled with the bars fully extended- hard habit to break, been riding m sleds since 2005, we'll see if I can get used to riding with the bars all the way down.

Bacon · Mar 1, 2013

Bars down will help more than you can imagine.

stcatman · Mar 2, 2013

You dont have to put your bars all the way down, but lowering does help, 174 helps but you pay for it in the trees, more traction means more ski lift, this is why I will keep running my 2.5 camo x 162 on my 09 k-mod turbo 1000, I am runnig on setting #3 145 lbs in the rear 7/8 inch on frount shock and its not too bad, you also need a 4 injector 1000 to play that game, your buddy needs to turn his up 6 lbs is a is just starting to wake up the 1000

Vi-PEC Powersports · Mar 2, 2013

wasatchcomm said:
i agree

10lbs on a m8 is not 250

i have a 1100t with the 215 reflash that i believe will work my old '10 m8 at 10lbs on avgas...

in fact i know it will

these 4s are a beast!!!!!

2009 M8 at 10 psi with a piggyback.....no more than 185 hp at best (and peak horsepower not steady horsepower)

knzee · Mar 3, 2013

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
2009 M8 at 10 psi with a piggyback.....no more than 185 hp at best (and peak horsepower not steady horsepower)

Do you have some proof for this? I would think it is more around the 200-210 range. The new cat 1100T is puttting out 170-175ish and at 9 psi (on my piggyback system) it is not even fun to race. I understand the stand alone units are supposed to be pretty good but you folks must ride with some pretty piss poor tuned piggyback setups.

Vi-PEC Powersports · Mar 3, 2013

knzee said:
Do you have some proof for this? I would think it is more around the 200-210 range. The new cat 1100T is puttting out 170-175ish and at 9 psi (on my piggyback system) it is not even fun to race. I understand the stand alone units are supposed to be pretty good but you folks must ride with some pretty piss poor tuned piggyback setups.

Just want to make sure you understand i wasn t refering to our ECU, we are talking here on his current setup.A MY2013 is puting down 149 hp( 44 degrees intake air temperature testing environment) and 4-5 hp/psi boost is max you get with a piggyback of any kind set up( lots of factors involved). As more boost you go as less efficient you get( for multiple reasons that i don t want to discuss here) And rounding up numbers, 4-5 psi through out the powerband is what you get.Racing a 150 lbs heavier 1100t at 10psi on your m8 is for sure not even a race, power to weight ratio is in your favor big time. Even at lets say 185 hp on your m8, the 1100t stock as no chance, it is carrying to much weight.

Vi-pec powersports

Wheel House Motorsports · Mar 3, 2013

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
2009 M8 at 10 psi with a piggyback.....no more than 185 hp at best (and peak horsepower not steady horsepower)

2, 2.5 HP per pound is all you think a piggy back can make? I know his number of 240-250 is pretty imaginary and i have had a chuckle about it before, but 185 is equally as laughable.

come on Gino, you know there is a LOT more going on to calculate HP then just boost and whether you have a piggy back or stand alone!

a turbo kit that works, and a turbo kit that is engineered to MAKE POWER are two very different things.:focus:

Vi-PEC Powersports · Mar 4, 2013

Ski-Dooin it said:
2, 2.5 HP per pound is all you think a piggy back can make? I know his number of 240-250 is pretty imaginary and i have had a chuckle about it before, but 185 is equally as laughable.

ski-dooin it, before i can even have a decent conversation about anything related to power and such, i would like you to show us all where you are testing all those engines,turbo kits,big bores etc. what kinda equipments do you have, where are you located,show us your installation,who are your customers, what's the name of your company?? i see you all over snowest debating and arguing about numbers, you seem to have so much knowledge it would be very usefull for all of us to see where you are acquiring all this knowledge and numbers( p.s.: please start a thread where you will post all of your testing equipments and installations)
I wrote 4-5hp per psi on average through out the powerband......not 2-2.5 hp ??and that's all you get with any piggyback 2 stroke turbo kit in the indusrty for now, and we have bench tested them pretty much all.

please let this thread alone and PM me so i can take your declaration seriously. thanks.

dvst8r · Mar 4, 2013

Are we seriously debating hp/psi??? This is as much a function of the turbo used as it is the tuning.

GT2860R @10psi probably that 185hp precision efi is talking about
GTX3582 @10psi probably that 250hp the op is talking about.

I have dyno'd a BBC that on 3psi went better then 1000hp with a pair of promod94's...

While timing is a critical component of tuning, and a piggy back cannot adjust this, until detonation or egt's limit is reached you don't start pulling timing anyways.

This thread is about ski lift, and traction not about $300 piggy backs vs $3000 standalone's. :focus:

av8er · Mar 4, 2013

I do not own a DYNO- but

I talked to Shain Stainger today he quoted that my sled with my setup should be putting out about 245HP. whether that tests true on a dyno or not remains to be seen. but if your sled is only puttig out 185HP with a similar setup. you are doing somethig wrong. My old D&D 901 put out 185 HP normally aspirated before It was bolted to the turbo.

also as the above post clearly states. This Thread is about Traction and Ski Lift, getting the power to the ground.

av8er · Mar 4, 2013

Back to the subject- UPDATE

rode the sled on saturday, pulling the limiter straps up an inch seemed to work well, until I hit a steep hill near the end of the day. was pulling hard and fast, skis about a foot off the ground. then out of nowhere right when it got real steep my sled stood on end, I felt it rub on the rear bumper, so I let off the gas, skis came down , and then all of my momentum went to he!! and then I wasn't sure if i could get her turned out. it was fun but it surprised the he11 out of me. I have no idea why. the snow was soft and wet this day.

Whimp · Mar 5, 2013

body positioning

When you lean back and pull on the handle bars it is going to stand up on you

.....

But Seriously lets talk about rider positioning and throttle control. I know you are a bigger guy as am I..... So I have found that even though I have a Kmod along with my 3" track and I feel my skid works extremely well there is no way around the fact that this track digs deeper and harder than anything else out there..... A few things I have done to get my weight forward (which helps a Ton!) I ride with my stomach on the bars in the steep and deep stuff.... I have an Ole's bar riser that moves my bars forward about 1.5 inch or so. I also keep all my turbo gauges etc out of the way of my body.... So I can keep myself right up by the bars....

Throttle control has also helped me a ton. If you let the sled stand on its rear axel you are too late..... At that point it doesnt matter what kind of suspension you have.... I have found if I anticipate when it is going to lift as you are describing then I fether the throttle and allow the skid to (catch Up) if you will. Doing this I keep my momentum and control in the steep and deep. If you wait to react until your skis are 3+ feet in the air then its too late imo.....

I have a 174 3" with a Kmod on my 1200 and it handles the steep and deep much better than the 162 but its not even close to the 162 M8 fun factor in the trees!

I guess you have to pick your poison.....

Good luck!

av8er · Mar 5, 2013

My turbo gauges are in the way,

when I'm in the attack position they are right by my twig and berries, I try to lean over the bars as much as possible, but usually when I'm climbing something steep, I pin it and react to what the sled is doing- Adapt and Overcome. I tried to put the bars all the way down but it was uncomfortable and unnatural feeling to me. I felt I had better throttle control with them up, my last 5 sleds have all been M series, 07 m1000,05 Cutler 1000, 09 m1000, boonie ,T901, and twisted m8.

Bendy · Mar 5, 2013

This is a useless post

You can't compare apples and oranges. Fourstroke torque cannot be duplicated by a 2 smoke!

Mcx Nytro · Mar 5, 2013

There is even the delivery of the torque and hp in the 4-stroke broad and smooth and I found even more predictable than the 2. You KNOW you're going to make it so you can throttle down and back easier...that's what I found anyways....02

Bendy · Mar 7, 2013

When...

I start to wheelie... always when I hit a roller or track... I just throttle down and get back into it. I barely loose any track speed doing this. It is a smooth and broad powerband. My M1100T is the first fourstroke I've riden. On long, steep pulls, it just keeps going and going. Trust me, I've done the 2 stroke turbo thing for the last ten years. Boy I'm glad I made the switch!

wasatchcomm · Mar 8, 2013

PRECISION E.F.I. said:
2009 M8 at 10 psi with a piggyback.....no more than 185 hp at best (and peak horsepower not steady horsepower)

you really need to spend more time perfecting your system rather than walking around with your chest puffed out!

you have customers with ecus you have mfg that dont work for their sleds...

according to what i am reading!!!!

good luck with your system, but everything i read on this forum tells me you are not great at customer service!

why would you even chime in on this thread???

concentrate on your product so us consumers will be impressed and want to buy your product....

as it is the turbo cat threads have several guys without any instructions or maps for their vipec cats...

i hope they work well and wish you the best.....

wasatchcomm · Mar 8, 2013

Bendy said:
I start to wheelie... always when I hit a roller or track... I just throttle down and get back into it. I barely loose any track speed doing this. It is a smooth and broad powerband. My M1100T is the first fourstroke I've riden. On long, steep pulls, it just keeps going and going. Trust me, I've done the 2 stroke turbo thing for the last ten years. Boy I'm glad I made the switch!

so true!!!!

sledfvr · Mar 10, 2013

I have a 174x3 on my 300hp apex. The Kmod holds the skis down great. You need to keep playing with it.

Got spanked by an alpine turbo today- suggestions??

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