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Climate change

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Jaynelson

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Nov 26, 2007
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I'll take some of that. I don't lean left and I don't lean right. I'm sure most on this forum will agree that all levels of forest management is fraught. What we may disagree with is how it came to be. For every conservative on this forum that say we don't log enough, is a liberal that says we log too much. For every comment that says too much land is closed to snowmobiling is another that says too much land is open to snowmobiling. What is the answer? Compromise? How is that working out in America these days. I'll ask you, if were required by law to receive comments and respond to those comments (often by folks who know nothing of construction) every time you endeavored a construction project how would that work out? Would it be efficient? Would you enjoy working under those premises. The environmental regulations that you all refer are not the product land management agencies. Those are laws handed down by congress and the states and upheld by the courts. Agencies are required to follow those laws.

As much as Big10 would like to reach through that screen and choke me right now, I will stand shoulder to shoulder with him and continue to advocate for better forest management. That includes timber management with logging - and a lot of it. I have always been impressed by the timber industry where I'm from. They are great stewards of the land, great for local economies and a necessary component of forest management.

Fire does have a role in forest management however. Not every fire can be put out quickly nor should it. When a fire can burn an entire community in hours, no amount of resources can stop that. When a fire ignites and within 20 minutes transitions to a crown fire, no amount of resources can stop that. When fuels, weather and topography align, fire will do what its going to do; and sometimes no amount of logging will change that. Sometimes, a fire can best be described as a natural disaster, much like a hurricane. No amount of proper management can change that - sometimes.

Fire is a big business. When we continue to build homes in areas that are likely to experience fire, it gets expensive - quickly. That is not the fault of federal land management, yet federal land management is now forced to deal with it. That takes money from other programs that would have possibly reduced the impacts from the next disturbance event. However, I will continue to advocate that the reason we talk about the 416, Lake Christine, Silver Creek and Spring Creek fires in Colorado this year, is because these chicken chit, lazy worthless firefighters are not only managing those fires, but the more than 2000 fires that were reported in the rocky mountain area. Many you never even know about because the "we suck at our jobs" folks are actually quite effective with initial attack and those other 2000 fires were contained quickly so as not to burn for months at a time. To Big10 and TT's defense, those fires I mentioned specifically were damaging, produced smoky atmospheres, burned for a very long period of time and burned homes. That is tragic. It is now the reality with which we are faced. Complex decisions must be made that allocate resources to the priority area. Decisions you may not agree with but are being made by dedicated professionals.

My point to all this: Be objective and stop blaming and stop oversimplifying complex issues. It is not always the government and not always a conspiracy. If I ask you to build a home for me, I might question because I do not know. I will not question and say you suck because I watched a you tube video on how to pour concrete. I will ask because I believe you to be an expert in your field. I am good at what I do as I am sure you are good at what you do. I do not deceive and I do not lie. As I'm sure you would in your profession, I will defend the actions of the wildland fire community against claims that have very little basis in reality.
FWIW most of the people I know (which is quite a few) who are involved in forest fire fighting, IA, and so forth at a long-term/career level are very good at their jobs. They are "into it" ....in the way that you hope your sled dealer is "into it." I have witnessed first hand (as you say) when there are certain fires, with certain behavior that there is simply nothing you can do.

Is there room for improvement in forest management? Yes...there's room for improvement in anything. Are there other factors such as climate, weather, etc? OF COURSE
 

turboless terry

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There lies another big problem in management. People in DC trying to manage things in other states that they know nothing about. They watched some walt Disney movies that potraid these animals as something there not. They read some biased newspaper article.
There is no compromise anymore but why don't you explain why they have more rights to not have snowmobiles than I do to have them. Not 50 50 and they can still go anywhere I can. So you have to wonder why I think everything is a conspiracy theory. They use just as skewed studies with snowmobiles and animals as they do climate change to push their biased agenda. They try and tell everyone the end of the world is coming if you don't do this. If they repeat it over and over eventually people will think it's true. Sometimes issues are only as complex as you make them.
 
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Raff_9001M

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Nov 27, 2007
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There lies another big problem in management. People in DC trying to manage things in other states that they know nothing about. They watched some walt Disney movies that potraid these animals as something there not. They read some biased newspaper article.
There is no compromise anymore but why don't you explain why they have more rights to not have snowmobiles than I do to have them. Not 50 50 and they can still go anywhere I can. So you have to wonder why I think everything is a conspiracy theory. They use just as skewed studies with snowmobiles and animals as they do climate change to push their biased agenda. They try and tell everyone the end of the world is coming if you don't do this. If they repeat it over and over eventually people will think it's true. Sometimes issues are only as complex as you make them.

That's why compromise was question marked. It doesn't happen very well. Unfortunately I only know my area, which we as snowmobilers are blessed. Each forest has different issues, different communities with different priorities. This issue like all the others are complex.
 

Mafesto

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Californians need to remember that in 2016 governor jerry brown vetoed a forest management bill that may have prevented the fires, and certainly would have lessened the devastation.
Basically, these lives lost are on his hands.
 

Mafesto

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We will get through February 2019 without ever seeing above freezing temps locally.
Haven't seen this in my lifetime and my parents cannot remember it either.
Friends that winter in AZ, TX, FL are complaining about how cold it's been.

Pretty sure that you "global warming" disciples can finally give it a rest. It is a myth.

Climate change?
Sure it changes. It's called cycles.
 

Jean-Luc Picard

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www.bennyfifeaudio.com
Historically speaking, we're actually still in an ice age. Not to say pollution has zero effect on the climate. I'm sure we do. Just like if your kid leaves the refrigerator door open its going to affect the food & your electricity bill. I think we just need to make intelligent choices. Smoking is bad for you. Burning all kinds of toxic things is not the best thing for the environment. I think scientists have only scratched the surface of what the planet is capable of.
 

Idcatman3

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Slick posted this in the thread celebrating our great President Trump....

https://www.facebook.com/369309166748535/posts/819056838440430?sfns=mo

Pretty much settles it.
Climate change/global warming is a money grabbing hoax.

Yes, a meteorologist. Not a climate scientist. There's a difference. I know that's hard to understand.

Open your head a do some reading. I know you think everyone is as corrupt and lies as often as our president, but they aren't and they don't. Stop projecting your actions on others.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/weather-or-not/

Oh yeah, I forgot, snopes can't be trusted. Nobody that disagrees with you can be trusted.
 
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freekweet mods

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Feb 3, 2008
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So now that the anointed mafesto has confirmed through revelation by slick as per the great president trump that global warming or climate change or whatever you want to call it is a hoax- what shall we do. Maybe we could expedite the process to the( end all) by deforesting the rest of the planet,maybe filling the few remaining clean streams,rivers,lakes, ponds,etc. with raw sewage,toxic sludge,industrial waste,oil, roundup,you know just about anything that has been proven bad or harmful to the environment or humans or any living organism. Besides we all need to make a living, right, why take what we need ,when we can take all we want. Besides we need to make America great again, in order to that there cannot be restriction on what we do.Wealth and power does not come to those who think of the adverse affects of there actions, slick claims all a money grab,he's right! money controls all things and there are those willing to do anything to get more of it. So come on lets see if we can destroy whats left of what's been provided for us to make an extra buck.
Oooor, maybe we could recognize that taking without putting back depletes valuable resources ,or realize that the pollution we create just doesn't disappear. Perhaps the thought of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure could be applied here. We all need (things) to survive ,but when it comes to money,power,control,it's a no holds barred world something we will all pay for eventually.
 

LoudHandle

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Hard to imagine a libtard who isn’t blinded by their own and collective stupidity. The global warming therory and “science” is just a money machine for bilking billions of dollars from governments around the world. So trust fund millennial “scientists” don’t have to get a real job nor dip into their own pockets to live. But you won’t believe me nor admit you are wrong. It goes against the libtard credo!
 
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Slick

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Nov 26, 2007
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So now that the anointed mafesto has confirmed through revelation by slick as per the great president trump that global warming or climate change or whatever you want to call it is a hoax- what shall we do. Maybe we could expedite the process to the( end all) by deforesting the rest of the planet,maybe filling the few remaining clean streams,rivers,lakes, ponds,etc. with raw sewage,toxic sludge,industrial waste,oil, roundup,you know just about anything that has been proven bad or harmful to the environment or humans or any living organism. Besides we all need to make a living, right, why take what we need ,when we can take all we want. Besides we need to make America great again, in order to that there cannot be restriction on what we do.Wealth and power does not come to those who think of the adverse affects of there actions, slick claims all a money grab,he's right! money controls all things and there are those willing to do anything to get more of it. So come on lets see if we can destroy whats left of what's been provided for us to make an extra buck.
Oooor, maybe we could recognize that taking without putting back depletes valuable resources ,or realize that the pollution we create just doesn't disappear. Perhaps the thought of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure could be applied here. We all need (things) to survive ,but when it comes to money,power,control,it's a no holds barred world something we will all pay for eventually.

So many things that threaten our way of life , our culture , and the future of our children . And you get sucked in by the threat of global ruination. But you’re backwards in your thinking about the money grab thing, the ones who are most guilty of that are the biggest proponents and flag wavers in the save the planet group. Your heroes are the worst offenders . But you’re right , common sense should prevail in our use of any resource the planet provides, but unfortunately, your camp is as usual , a bit shy on that .
 
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freekweet mods

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Feb 3, 2008
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My camp IS my camp, it has little to do with libtards,dems lefties, or whatever else you can come up with. It also has little to do right wing,self righteous,wingnuts.
 

Mafesto

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Maybe we could expedite the process to the( end all) by deforesting the rest of the planet,maybe filling the few remaining clean streams,rivers,lakes, ponds,etc. with raw sewage,toxic sludge,industrial waste,oil, roundup,you know just about anything that has been proven bad or harmful to the environment or humans or any living organism. Besides we all need to make a living, right, why take what we need ,when we can take all we want.

Ahhhhh, there it is. The old argument that just because we are not stupid enough to fall for the global warming myth, we must love pollution.

As predictable as a trained pig.
 

Idcatman3

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I notice nobody did the reading.

Funny, I bet you guys would be annoyed at ignorant people telling you that you don't know how to do your job, they know so much better than you.

But you have no problem telling others the same thing. These people know what they are doing. If scientists didn't understand their subjects, none of us would have the internet here to argue about this crap. GPS wouldn't work, none of this crap would work.

The scientific process works. It's not perfect, but it improves over time. I have posted many scientific papers, and analyses of the same.

The climate change denial side has posted a facebook video.

You guys have to see how ridiculous that is, don't you?
 

LoudHandle

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I notice nobody did the reading.

Funny, I bet you guys would be annoyed at ignorant people telling you that you don't know how to do your job, they know so much better than you.

But you have no problem telling others the same thing. These people know what they are doing. If scientists didn't understand their subjects, none of us would have the internet here to argue about this crap. GPS wouldn't work, none of this crap would work.

The scientific process works. It's not perfect, but it improves over time. I have posted many scientific papers, and analyses of the same.

The climate change denial side has posted a facebook video.

You guys have to see how ridiculous that is, don't you?

Science has zero to do with the internet or GPS. Neither were created or even though of by the science world. The Internet was conceived and developed by our defense department to talk to and control the minute man missiles we had staged all over the country, they opened it to the public when we no longer needed the minutemen due to the cold war ending. GPS, WiFi and blue tooth were conceived by Hedi Lammar an actress in the late 1930's and 40's.

Science works when the rules are followed and the scientist have ethics and follow them. The climate "scientists" have neither ethics nor the ability to follow the proven rules. If they did they would prove themselves frauds and kill the cash cow.

But you libtards won't acknowledge that either.
 

Mafesto

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I notice nobody did the reading.

Here's a social media site that you may think would interest me....
https://trumpit.chat/
It's a pro-Trump site.
It doesn't interest me, simply because there is no diversity of opinion.

That's the problem with the sources you continually quote. All those folks have decided what their findings are gonna be before the study begins. They have zero interest in looking at anything that may produce findings that don't fit the pre-determined narrative.
 
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