MPI timing removal vs. Head shim

TurboM700 · Oct 25, 2013

What are the pro's and con's.

Anyone beside MPI done the timing removal yet?

How does the sled act now? Still snappy on the top end? Any draw backs?

I'm (like most people) want to turn the boost up this year and in order to do this I either need to add a head shim or go the MPI wrote.

Sleds an 08 Nytro with a homebuilt turbo very simailr to a MPI or Push 180 kit.

Thanks
Mike.

Turbo11T · Oct 25, 2013

I would go with the remap alot easier and cheaper than the head shim. If you decided to go head shim I can help you out if you either need it done or have questions. If you do the head shim you need to make sure you get proper cam timing for boost.

TurboM700 · Oct 25, 2013

Thanks Turbo11t for the advice.

I was all ready to order and do the head shim and was doing some reading on here about MPI being able to pull timing and I like that alot better. Like you said its easier and I would think you wouldn't loose the bottom end performance.

Do you guys do the reflash or would i have to send it to MPI?

Turbo11T · Oct 25, 2013

TurboM700 said:
Thanks Turbo11t for the advice.

I was all ready to order and do the head shim and was doing some reading on here about MPI being able to pull timing and I like that alot better. Like you said its easier and I would think you wouldn't loose the bottom end performance.

Do you guys do the reflash or would i have to send it to MPI?

We can do it. Feel free to give us a call if you have any more questions.

irondave86 · Oct 25, 2013

How much boost are you running?

Turbo11T · Oct 25, 2013

irondave86 said:
How much boost are you running?

Typically you can run 3lbs more than what you are running with stock timing on your turbo kit now with the timing boost specific timing reflash.

Look at it this way. If you lower the compression you will loose some response on the bottom end, some say it is not noticeable. If you run just the timing reflash you will keep the low end response of the Nytro with the turbo.

TurboM700 · Oct 25, 2013

I'm running 6-7psi here (MN) and 10
Out west. I will also be doing fuel pump and regulator.

tt m1000 · Oct 25, 2013

Just turn the boost up and add race fuel

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

TurboM700 · Oct 25, 2013

I will do that sometime around here and just run av gas but out west where I need the power race gas is not an option.

Been there with my turbo 2 strokes and swore I wouldn't do the race gas thing.

One of the reason I like these turbo 4 stroke is I can go out west with the freinds one weekend and the next weekend ride the trails with the wife and all I need todo is adjust some clutch weights and turn the boost down some.

I also think I'm pushing my luck with 6-7 pounds and sea level.

Mike

Octanee · Oct 25, 2013

TurboM700 said:
I will do that sometime around here and just run av gas but out west where I need the power race gas is not an option.

Been there with my turbo 2 strokes and swore I wouldn't do the race gas thing.

One of the reason I like these turbo 4 stroke is I can go out west with the freinds one weekend and the next weekend ride the trails with the wife and all I need todo is adjust some clutch weights and turn the boost down some.

I also think I'm pushing my luck with 6-7 pounds and sea level.

Mike

imo the timing thing would be a quick fix to get a bit more boost out of her. but really if you want the ability to run the big boost and high horses off pump gas just bite the bullet and do the head shim. then your able to run alot more boost on pump gas safely. and then maybe you can do that timing retarder ontop of a headshim to add even more boost? :face-icon-small-con I'm not sure. But future wise a headshim would be smart... Then I'd imagine you'd be running 11# or so at sea level on 91 pump?

And race gas Hah yeah everybody just says oh yeah run race gas. it turns a already rich mans sport into something just unaffordable really. I mean up here where i live they charge damn near $3.75/L thats pretty much 13-14$/ Gallon..... I ran aviation fuel which is about $25 cents more than 94 pump up here and even then It starts to hurt doing that lol :face-icon-small-sho

irondave86 · Oct 26, 2013

I did the timing and temp safety last year. I put about 7-800 miles on my s/c nytro at 16 - 17psi on straight race gas (112) and good fuel management with no problems. I do feel like I'm pushing the limit of the stock motor, but so far so good. I would think you would be fine at 10 or 11 psi with pulling the timing, just make sure your fuel management is spot on.

M5- · Oct 26, 2013

To properly answer the question we need to know what turbo you are running. Depending on that you may max out the turbo before you run out of boost. If you have a 2554 for example it gets inefficient after about 12 lbs any ways so maybe the timing adjustment would be adequate but if you have a 2860 then you can run a lot more boost like up to 16 or 17 lbs and you should really do the shim. it doesn't take much to make a mistake adjusting the boost and create a huge spike, the shim will give way more margin for error and the shim is actually a pretty easy job. I've seen when the idiot driving the fuel truck fill the premium pump tank at the gas station with regular, some stuff like bad fuel you just can't control.

M5

TurboM700 · Oct 26, 2013

M5- said:
To properly answer the question we need to know what turbo you are running. Depending on that you may max out the turbo before you run out of boost. If you have a 2554 for example it gets inefficient after about 12 lbs any ways so maybe the timing adjustment would be adequate but if you have a 2860 then you can run a lot more boost like up to 16 or 17 lbs and you should really do the shim. it doesn't take much to make a mistake adjusting the boost and create a huge spike, the shim will give way more margin for error and the shim is actually a pretty easy job. I've seen when the idiot driving the fuel truck fill the premium pump tank at the gas station with regular, some stuff like bad fuel you just can't control.

M5

Mits 16g turbo no intercooler for now. Running a do beck style box for now. I'm planning on switching over to a OFT PCV or pyscho sleds version. Just trying to figure out which way to go for timing. I'm perfect comfortable installing my own head shim and after thinking last night I would be happy if I could run 10psi here in 14 out west. That should keep be happy for a while.

Once again thanks for all the advice. It's much appreciated.

greasemonkey3406 · Oct 26, 2013

http://oftracing.com/OnlineStore15/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73&products_id=140

This is what Im going to be running with my MPI kit this year.

Roughly $1100 for this kit plus the powercommander v.

Rattman · Oct 26, 2013

So If A guy was to forgo the head shim and install low compresson pistons and aftermarket rods, Would a guy still want to adjust the timing for the boosted application? I'm thinking thats the way i'm going to go if I'm already into the engine half way. I'm just not 100% on what i should set for timing.

M5- · Oct 27, 2013

If you do the pistons then you don't need the shim or the timing, you'll be good to go.

M5

M5- · Oct 27, 2013

TurboM700 said:
Mits 16g turbo no intercooler for now. Running a do beck style box for now. I'm planning on switching over to a OFT PCV or pyscho sleds version. Just trying to figure out which way to go for timing. I'm perfect comfortable installing my own head shim and after thinking last night I would be happy if I could run 10psi here in 14 out west. That should keep be happy for a while.

Once again thanks for all the advice. It's much appreciated.

With that turbo at 14 lbs the shim is the way to go plus I'd think real hard about adding an inter cooler for those boost levels.

M5

Rattman · Oct 27, 2013

M5- said:
If you do the pistons then you don't need the shim or the timing, you'll be good to go.

M5

Thanks, I've been wondering as which way to go. I'd figure if I'm into the engine this far then I won't have to open it up again if I want to add more boost down the line. I believe the next step is larger injectors to supply the fuel.

So far I'm adding
Intercooler
APR head bolts
PE pistons
Carrillo rods
Boost gauge
AEM A/f gauge
High pressure fuel pump
Larger wastegate & heavier BOV spring
GEMs remap (might up grade too a PC5 w auto tune)
Aluminum belly pan
Grizz tracks sub frame gussets
Oft steering relocate
Vent kit
Manual boost control
Temperature gauge
Skinz seat
Skinz A arms

I'm thinking avid drivers as well, the OEM ones are in good shape but might burn up with the added power right away

Any input from experience is appreciated

irondave86 · Oct 27, 2013

Rattman said:
Thanks, I've been wondering as which way to go. I'd figure if I'm into the engine this far then I won't have to open it up again if I want to add more boost down the line. I believe the next step is larger injectors to supply the fuel.

So far I'm adding
Intercooler
APR head bolts
PE pistons
Carrillo rods
Boost gauge
AEM A/f gauge
High pressure fuel pump
Larger wastegate & heavier BOV spring
GEMs remap (might up grade too a PC5 w auto tune)
Aluminum belly pan
Grizz tracks sub frame gussets
Oft steering relocate
Vent kit
Manual boost control
Temperature gauge
Skinz seat
Skinz A arms

I'm thinking avid drivers as well, the OEM ones are in good shape but might burn up with the added power right away

Any input from experience is appreciated

If your spending that kind of cash you should add "boost it kit" to your list. From my experience the GEMS is not capable of fueling your boosted sled regardless of the reflash.

TurboM700 · Oct 28, 2013

I agree with SuperDave on this one. I have a GEMS controller and its anything but consistent. I'm switch to a PCV 5 with either Jeff's or OFT racing mapping. I like the Boost-it set-up but for 1500 dollars that way to step in my mind.

MPI timing removal vs. Head shim

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