From the outside looking IN

polaris has a very and i mean VERY good marketing department as you can tell. AC seems to really lack that as does doo. and since poo got burandt one of the biggest names in sledding (people who dont sled know of him) that really helps their business. if i was looking at a snowmobile and i have never rode one before but have seen all these advertisements of poo i would probably buy one as well. i really should since they are just across the street from me but i personally prefer the service and how i am treated at the AC dealer an hour away and i will drive that hour for that kind of service and such.

Thats what me thinks

I guess I've always liked the thought of dealing with the little guy that in the past has been pretty staight forward with there claims of HP and weight. Pol. is very "local" for me and a number of my friends work for them. I would like to support them but they spend most of their time complaining how Pol. does not listen to any of their input, just like cat does not seem to listen to their cutomers or pro riders any more. Doo has the worlds worst attitude and most of the retoric has to do with how bad the others are. Yamaha is not in the market for me, if I was a trail rider maybe. Hopefully cat gets their head out of the sand and starts building sleds with the end user in mind and take their engineers out riding once in a while. These companys are just like pro sports teams, everyone gets their favorites and the world revolves around that team. the players on that team don't care much about anything but their paychecks and goes to what ever team pays the best. So do pro riders, engineers and company CEO's. So loyalty kind of ends at us dumb smucks!

SkiLaxn,

I looked at your sled online but purchased another on Snowest for significantly less. But its not just Cats. Some 2012 Pros are listing for $9500 as we speak. The combination of bad press on the Cat and bad snow year has hurt resale of the Cats.

I am loyal to Cat because the M chassis was the best mountain sled for years. I rode the **** out of my last M8 and had no issues. I also like my dealer support.

Clearly something is lacking at Cats customer service. New chassis last year and no one could ride them prior to snowcheck. Same this year. No advertising, no nothing. Cat is scrambling just as Polaris and Skidoo has done in the past. Meanwhile some of us will endure with them or not. If we endure it's because we know the potential. I am still on the fence.

Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk

The M-sled helped Cat get through some lean back east snow years. Western (mouintain) riding is consistant and growing.

So (this HAS to be the conversation in an AC board room 4 yrs ago) "We have this great flat land chassis designed that will take both 4stroke and 2stroke engines, what are we going to do for the mountain segment?"
"F**k 'em! They'll have to learn to ride what we give them. Let's come up with something else. Something like "longer belt life and fatter wallets".
"Hey, that sounds good. Let's use that!"

Makes sense to me, eh!

Ski,

I guess I can be considered as being on the outside looking in. I am wanting a new sled to replace my 06 M7 and am having a tough time deciding on what to buy. I know and understand Cats but with all the problems, and more importantly the apparent lack of concern by Cat, has me on the fence. The Polaris pros are awesome and their team deserves praise for that. I have looked at your sled multiple times but don't know if I want to be spending my money on a product the manufacturer themselves wont stand behind. If cat would step up, acknowledge, and fix the issues, I will stay w cat. Until then, I'm gonna look at other brands or at keeping the M7 another year.

Here we go again.

These threads start out with the premise that everything about the ProClimb sucks and then the facts start coming in to rationalize things.

Cat has had clutching issues, no doubt. Poo still has a lot of people leary about their motors.

Cat has a very good chassis on the trail, with some preferring a shock change. Poo does extreme sidehills better. A lot of us have to ride chitty trails to the alpine but don't do extreme sidehills so maybe the tradeoff is valid.

Cat is heavier, Poo is lighter. The chassis setup is the bigger factor on how it feels on the snow though, with the Poo having a larger 'sweet spot'.

Both will give you a great time and both have their good and bad dealers.

Cat is coming off some high years for their mountain sleds and have made some major changes. Poo is off some bad years and is going into their third year of a great chassis.

Same goes for Doo and if you're a trail guy or highmarker, Yammie.

And lastly, I've owned all brands and had fun on them all. Nuff said - back to regular programming and dirt slinging.

"Dirt slinging" to me is throwing out comments to just be mean. Maybe even refers to mis-truths (I hope that is not what you meant). That's not why I keep posting CatR.

I don't care about any other thing that was wrong with my first year sled. I expected more. I've fixed them all. My sled is a 2013 LE today.

So don't twist what these Cat-negative threads are all about. They advertised a product with great belt life and gave us this. Cat has to fix the belt issue " that some have but many do not".
Why? It`s a simple question that needs a truthful answer from Cat. That`s all. Nothing more to it. No hate mongering.

Your a great moderate CatR. I am not. When I go sleddin` I don`t want a care in the world and have always been able to achieve it until this sled.
I too have owned them all. This is by far the poorest out of the crate clutching-belt life sled I have ever owned (nothing has even been close to this that i have owned, 30 plus sleds). The clutches and belt need more break time than I do and I`m old. They sold me on the opposite expectation. That`s what bugs me. That`s what I want straightened out by Cat!

Why, is all I want to know from Cat. I`ll pay for it. The RMK 900 analogy is a perfect example of what we will get if we don`t keep WHINING (not dirt slinging LOL).

This is interesting, I was gong to start a "marketing" thread. I find it very interesting.
Facts are, we sent humans to the moon many many years ago. A sled manufacturer COULD build the perfect sled, if it were financially feasable. The 2012 has me really thinking, as well as what Poo is doing.
Manufacturers don't put out the "best" they can every year, in my thinking. They up the ante a little at a time, try to keep pace with competitors, while technology and the sport evolves. The last two sleds I had/have were an 07 M1000 and a 09 SP race sled, and I can really see the differences in build/design to 2012.
The fact is, we were selling Skidoos for $11,000 over ten years ago when we were selling 01/02 models. Prices have not gone up much in the last ten years, and there has to be a reason. (With inflation, they are actually CHEAPER). Looking at the 2012 PC, it is a lot in the build/manufactuiring process. I was surprised at all the cast pot metal parts (chaincase assembly for one) the self tapping screws (chaincase for one, lol) and the use of stamped aluminum everywhere. (Tunnel, tail light housing.) Less plastic used overall (oil product).
So back to what they "could" do: Why does Cat continue to put out 20lb suitcases for cans? Cheaper? This one doesn't look cheap, I didn't even know it was a Cat product the first time I looked. They don't make money on aftermarket cans. Noise/regs? Maybe. But I doubt that is the main reason. I think that they are "hedging their bet" in that they came out with a completely new chassis, the last chassis lasted 6 years with only refinements. If Cat gave a lightweight can right off the bat, they have nothing in reserve for future refinements. It would sure be an easy way to drop 10 plus pounds in 2014 when the chassis is getting "old." Now how light/good CAN a sled get? There are limits as far as weight and design, and what happens with sleds cannot get considerably better every year? People hold onto their olds ones and don't buy new.
Enter ProRMK. Polaris pulled out the stops with the new sled in 2011. Worked on some issues for 2012, pulled out the stops again for 2013. They have made huge leaps in performance in a short time, probably in an effort to take over the majority of the market. And it is working, their sled is the benchmark. Where do they go from here? How much better can the sled get, what happens in 2-3 years when the PC is just as good/better, and the ProRMK is old news? Seems like Polaris went in for the kill over a short time for a reason. And their sales are showing it.
There are a pile of used PC sleds on here, I would LOVE to grab Sage or Ski's rides, give my 153 to my wife. But they are still $10,000, it is springtime, and when spending $10K on something, it is easy after that $10K mark to spend a few more thousand for a new one. (Even though theirs have a lot of expensive goodies that make them a good deal.)
The only way I was able to get my Proclimb (I don't finance anything, pay cash), is that Guysoutdoor in Lewiston posted it on here, 100 miles used, with a couple hundy in goodies, like new for $9000. I kicked it around with them, mentioned that I had to sell my M1000 first, and they offered to hold it for me with a deposit. I jumped on it, and to my (and their) surprise, I was able to pay it off in less than two weeks. Within a week of bringing it home, there was a 2012 ProRMK with 112 miles here in McCall for sale for $9400. I kinda kicked myself a little, but am happy with the Cat. Funny thing, the guy that originally bought my sled, traded it back in to buy a Poo aftrer fiding a Pro. He must have taken a HUGE financial hit, but it was important for him to get what worked for him.
The manufacturers also have to try to build what people want to buy. Mountain riding is not the same thing to different people. In Alaska when I lived there, it was thousand foot plus climbs to get to play areas on mostly bald moluntain slopes. Here in McCall there is much less of that, and much more technical tree riding, where the ProRMK shines.
Chris

Geo

You mean to say that your post insuating that Cat just said 'F**k em, they'll just have to ride what we give em' was meant to be constructive banter? Ahhhh, ok. Makes the PC sound like a crate, which it is far from.

And I, like many others, have received our letter and belt from Cat saying it's not up to snuff, we'll get it right but we need some time. Yet there are still lots of posts from people saying Cat isn't fessing up to anything. Didn't they get a letter, are they in denial, or are they illiterate? Maybe Cat should send a picture of a PC with a red X over it and the words 'bad kitty'.:face-icon-small-ton

Seriously man, I wasn't pointing you out in specific, got to much respect for you for that, but now that you've brought it up reading your earlier post doesn't read like an engineering assessment. Lol

I dont see where cat says its going to fix anything , they send out a belt and warranty most of wont use.

I am really looking forward to 2013 Cats. I believe Cat will have taken care of the major issues and make improvements(2.6 track for example). 2014, I believe the Cat will get alot lighter and have a great motor(it needs/will be at least a good as the Suzuki)

A few observations. Poo got the crap kicked out of them for years. The 900 liberty disaster, then the Dragons blowing up every 300 miles. They lost a lot of riders. They finally got there act together, but for about 6 years, no one would ride one.

Cat had a great run with the M chassis. It may not have been the most powerful or lightest over those years, but they were reliable, competitive and fun.

The Proclimb was rushed. It was Cat's 50th anniversary. I think if it had not been the 50th, they would have waited another year on it and done more research and development. It was rushed into production to celebrate the 50th.

The Proclimb does not suck. Far from it. Except for the belts on the 800 and the reverse on the M1100T, they are damn good sleds. Stout, powerful engine, and (except for above mentioned issues) reliable. They take a beating and keep on running.

Whatever issues they had this year will be fixed next year. I would hold out on the Poo. They have pushed the envelope on weight, but it could come with a price. Structural integrity could severly suffer with bent tunnels, running boards etc.....like the Doo had a few years back.

Before I would buy a Poo, I would wait to see if they are going to hold together. They already have engine issues. At least with Cat, you know the M800 belt issues and M1100T reverse issues with be solved in 2013. Cat has a stout chassis and a hell of a motor. I like the idea that when I am going deep in the backcountry, I know I will get home on my Cat.

WTF!

This blows me away that some people will even consider comparing the pro to the arcticat on which one to purchase! ya polaris has the best chassis, but until they put a m8 motor in it u have nothing! They have been building piston poppin crank blowing pieces of chit motors for years yet people keep buyin and buyin the chit! And talk about standing behind there product look at polaris they basically said if u bought a dragon u were basically out of luck now thats standing behind ur product! Rant over! Only my opinion id rather buy a belt vs a motor every 300 miles!

Insaneboltrounder/sjohns said:

I dont see where cat says its going to fix anything , they send out a belt and warranty most of wont use.

Click to expand...

Grabbed the letter and took a look - you're right, it doesn't say it implicitly. That said I'm thinking they want you to bring it in next fall to update any recalls because by then they'll have a proper fix.

polaris and doo's up till 76 then...

i have had Cats all my life,from 1976 and up and upgrading every 2nd year on average and that stopped in 2007 with my m8..decided to build my dream sled rather then lose the money upgrading and it is a sweet sled....

i never bothered my dealer with the issues on my sleds,i live to far out of town and i always fixed them on my coin.

Why so loyal to Cat for decades,..??..familarity,.. the gathering of the specifc tools,being comfortable under the hood,gathering of parts..things just becoming second nature..

i love my M....there is alot that holds me back from ever looking at Cat again though with these 2012..it ain;t just the belt issue...and i know the 1100 is doing fine..i just cannot put my finger on why several things the 2012 can;t sit right with me..??

Part of it is definately the Polaris..they really want a sled loyalist to commit adultery with the 2013 that they have..

and we all have a sinful nature...and that Polaris keeps her bedroom curtains wide open

So i reckon that i will stay Cat if i lose my eyesight..

I bought an M7 new in late 2007 brand new. I put over 8k miles on her and beat the living piss out it. I replaced pistons at 5k miles (precautionary), lost a spider in the primary at 6k miles, and only several minor other issues. NEVER was towed home. My local cat dealer (REDLINEBILL on here, Adrenaline Powersports) was awesome and always took care of me. My best riding buddy bought a new Pro last year and he loves it. I spent alot of time on it last winter and just wasn't sold (Running boards were bent to crap at 150 miles!). I snowchecked a new ProClimb from Michelle (She is the best and Redline dropped AC) and because we have had pretty crappy snow I only have 350 miles on it. So far I love it and (Knock on wood) have been one of the lucky ones. I really hope that AC figures this thing out and i have to believe that they will. I don't want to bash any person, brand or opinion. I just want to state why I bought a Proclimb without a demo ride. Thanks

They didn't get burandt, they said here is a check and we will build the sled your way. Even with a pile of an engine (the heart) they sell like no sled ever has. If you put a suzuki in the pro and it blew belts we would all complain but would not give it up for anything. They built a bad a$$ trail sled and pawned it off, but it has the right stuff just needs tweaked on the mountain side.