PRO chassis versus modded RAW chassis

I seemed to have missed the threads on the new 800 motors being junk. Most of what I have heard is they have been holding up fine.:noidea:

I must be under a rock, Thought the 800 engines were pretty Stout.
I also heard that the Snow machines are still built in USA.

Just Sayin

Sundance Kid said:

Has anyone ridden a PRO chassis and an 07-10 with a Holz coilover/lightweight front end or similar suspension mods?
I'm wondering how a lightened and suspension updated 07-10 chassis compares to the new Pro. If someone has two of these sleds side by side how does the weight compare???

Since the new 800 engines appear to still be junk I still wonder about putting my trusty old 03 SLP hillclimb motor in an 07-10 chassis.
The word on the new chassis seems to be excellent from everyone. Correct shock calibration, nimble and #1 being that it gets up on the snow better than everything else.
Or has anyone put an old style big block in the new PRO chassis???
I could install my 03 engine into a good chassis for a lot less than a new sled and there is no way I'm spending over 10K to have it in the shop with a blown engine.

Maybe the 2012's with the Mexican engines will be better???!!!-This will fire up the crowd!!! But I think the real solution starts with management and engineering.

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The sleds are still built in the US

I had an 08 dragon 163, full holz suspension frt and rear(skid,Float-2's valved by carls,)2.5 extreme, fastrax D&R,slp single, 10 frt plastic, geared and well clutched, and it ran good...but my stock 163 pro walks all over it...every where.....so I sold it....but it was a good sled, and would hang with both the cats and the xps...
As for motor problems on the pro's? I dont think so, according to a polaris engineer i talked with a while back, they have had less then 100 blown motors, and lowest in the industry for warranty claims..by a bunch.....I think the internet exagerates the issues....

Sundance one of our demo sleds is an 09 IQ RAW standard with a holz alpha x rear (absolutely dialed to perfection with lots of testing and experience) holz front suspension with evol X ski shocks (once again lots of various settings and pressures to dial in in combination of the back suspension)...stock 800 with SLP single pipe combo. It also has been stiffened by installing Better Boards and Better Bars which makes the chassis respond to rider input way quicker and very similar to the PRO. That is a huge aspect that you don't get from the stock IQ RAW setup. Sled weighs 452 lbs no gas....

If all things were equal money wise just going from the feel of a test ride YOU WOULD NOT BUY A STOCK PRO IF YOU COMPARED THE RIDE PERFORMANCE AND FEEL AGAINST THIS SLED.

BUT

There are some design aspects of the PRO that offer a couple of advantages over the IQ RAW irregardless of aftermarket parts.

The PRO has a slightly lower center of mass and if you are a experienced tester you can feel that mass. It creates a slightly better performing vehicle through cornering on the trail. The off trail benefit is the lack of a plastic body componant that drags on a steep sidehill. The PRO will carve on it's line from the ski edge to the track as it's two linear points. The shoulders of an IQ RAW behind the suspension componants drag lower then the entire ride line and sled will pivot around that drag point and not hold a carved line as effectively. The plastic dragging takes one of the two connection points out of play so that they can't work together and end up on a shorter edge which usually results in a wash out of the rear.

The other kicker is simply weight...you have to go to extremes in money and time to get an IQ down to 434 without gas. Weirdly that small 20lbs difference between a stock PRO and a very modded and exceptional IQ RAW is felt and important from a ride standpoint. Factor in overall chassis durability and things swing radically back to our IQ.

F-Bomb: Factor in overall chassis durability and things swing radically back to our IQ.

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Rob... have you had chassis durability issues with your PRO-RMK compared to your IQ RMK?

STEERING PLAYS A HUGE ROLE

One of the other major items not covered above is the steering.

The PRO-RMK steering post is not canted side-to-side like the IQ which angles down to the left.

This may seem small but it makes for a much more intuitive feel in the sled and how you "connect" with it.

The IQ steering has a arc or "flop" to it and the PRO's have you actually turning the bars.... which gives a much more symetrical feel to the maneuvering of the sled... nothing you really see standing on the sled... but your body "feels" this as you ride.

The steering Ackerman angles are significanly different on the PRO compared to the IQ. This also helps greatly with lower speed technical riding in tight areas... like thick tree ridign. This in addition to a greater lock-to-lock sweep which gives a tighter turning radius on the PRO.

These are things not possible to change on the IQ.

The A-Arms on the PRO are identical in geometry to the IQ... it is in the spindles and the steering gear inside the bulkhead where the difference is made.

I've been on board IQ mod sleds that are as light or slightly lighter than the PRO... but the PRO wins hands down in feeling lighter to the rider.

The million dollar question is: Is it 5000.00 better!

Thats using an average sale price of 5-6K on a very good shape low milege IQ. Then the Delta of the new price tag sold at reasonable discount below MSRP.

I'd offer my help to people a lot more if they had an icon as good as yours! :face-icon-small-hap

One thing you might consider is the new PRO 600. Ride reports are strong and there just seems to be something more reliable in the long long run of this application with the 6 versus the 8. Once again this is all theory because it's new and nobody really knows what the final aspects of sensors fueling ect ect will come to the consumer on the stocker 6. It's disgustingly too bad that they don't make the 6 a true entry level sled and the 8 the premium model but smarter marketing guys then me make those decisions!:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

deepdiver it depends on your wallet. I'd say just shear riding enjoyment yes the PRO is so much better then a stocker IQ that when you divide up all my rides that you can say it's worth a bit more money each time. The more you ride the better the deal! BUT you can make an IQ RAW be awesome with enough money and experience and I think that was kind of what he was getting at initially. I'm selling our demo IQ and it's expensive but it's flat out one of the premium riding sleds on the planet. It's a sight better in all aspects then a stocker PRO that sells for $10500...but not as good as our other demo custom PRO which would cost you guys about $14000 to finish. So who really knows! I'm not factoring in perceived value or resale just simply felt and experienced performance.

The 2012 600 RMK will feature the same DC-CFI-2 fuel injection as the 2011/12 800 RMK's. The mapping will of course be different as will the injectors than the 800's.

This is different than the DC-CFI-4 on the 2010/11/12 RUSH 600's.

So that you don't think that the DC-CFI-2 is an untested system on the 600's.... the 2012 600's have a nearly identical injection/ignition/electrical system (the Kokusan/Polaris DC-CFI-2)that was found on the 2009 600 RMK Shift. There are some very minor differences compared to the 2009 like the fuel rail pulsation dampers.

IMO... After riding some of the best modded lightweight IQ-RAW sleds out there with EZ-Ryde/Holz A-X/Timbersled/K-mod suspensions... And the best shock packages made from the EVOL-X & R, to the Z-Broz and Walker needles (heck even an Ohlin package) with light weight everything... The PRO, hands down, same day same hill same conditions will hold a side-hill line without washing-out much longer and with much less effort than the RAW chassis will. At the end of the day, doing the same amount of riding in the same terrain, the PRO rider will be much less fatigued than the RAW rider.

The lower engine placement puts the rotational inertia closer to the ground and this makes the PRO easier to throw around.

You really have to throw some SERIOUS money at the IQ to get it anywhere near 440 lbs... and the PRO is 435 or so right out of the box. The weight DOES make a difference.

So, IMO, yes, the PRO is 5,000 better if you are considering that you would have to put at least that kind of money into the RAW to get it close to the stock PRO.... Which in my mind would still be less of a sled than the PRO for most riding situations.

I DO agree with F-Bomb in the shock department and have found that the stock PRO shocks, when valved for the rider OR an upgrade to the aftermarket shocks like the Fox or the Z-Broz, will give you better performance in the handling department.

Just like a custom fit suit.. a custom fit sled will inspire more confidence in the owner.

The level at which you notice the difference in aftermarket shocks on the PRO is related to the level of rider you are... the more advanced riders will notice a bigger diff. Rob has been very generous with people and will let you compare side by side his Fox equipped sled if you can take him up on the offer with one of his demo sleds at one of his locations.

Coming from an 08 700 155 with a Mountain Tamer rear suspension and ZBros front shocks I can offer my experiences.

The number one improvement I did to the 08 was the Mountain Tamer rear skid. It took a sled that use to consistently dog leg the rearend along as I sidehilled and brought that up to almost level as well as alot less wash outs. I love my sled and have had the thought process over the past 3 years that there isn't an easier sled to maneauver on one ski and through the trees. I have even had numerous others hop on my sled and question why it seems easier to handle than other IQs.

Fast forward to a blown crank :face-icon-small-sad on the night I'm packing to leave for the 11th Annual Ladies Ride and my frantic call to borrow a PRO for the weekend... and end up with 3 amazing days of busting deep powder on the 2011 Pro. :nod: I rode that sucker into the ground, thinking I had just ridden my body into the ground too on day one and woke up the next morning not sore... Repeat this for the next 2 days and came away from the weekend feeling like I could go much MORE! I found myself exerting less energy, not breathing so hard after a shred session and wanting to stay on the mountain well past dark!

I really feel like if the throttle and brake weren't on the handlebars there quite possibly would be no need for handlebars at all. Shift your weight and point your shoulder where you want to go and it will follow. This sled is a rider stay-put kind of sled ie your feet/legs can stay strattled for 90% of what you need to do! No need to put foot here for this maneauver, then foot back there for that one and then over here for another. Sure you can throw a leg and look cool and REALLY get reaction from the chassis, but I don't feel like it is needed.

Yesterday I rode it in our Famous Mashed Potatoes and normally this is the kind of snow that just sucks the energy right out of you. The ease of the PRO really left me ready for more when we called it a day! It also handles the hardened trenches from the day before better too! It seems to transfer less of the terrain to your body, if that makes sense?

Now, I haven't had the opportunity to ride my 08 and this '11 on same day, same conditions etc so I can't give you a side by side comparison. I have ridden a few other well equipped 08's on same day and same conditions for brief periods. And I guess in the end my opinion is that the IQ chassis is a great one, no doubt there! But I think you would have to get a nicely modded (talking suspensions not engines) one to compare/compete with the PRO-Ride chassis.

I agree, my friends dragon,all holz fr and rear,fox evox's,carbon hood,ect ect will do anything my stock pro 163 does...i have ridden both quite a bit My 700 dragon with holz front/stock rear...no,but still a good sled.
The pro is the best out of the box sled I have ever ridden...period. But yes a iq with 8 grand worth of suspention is equal for sure maybe a touch better in some instances. imho

Do you think that the 800's are just beyond what can be built for reliability?

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Not at all.. The 800 DC-CFI-2 engines in the PRO RMK and RUSH have shown very good reliability.

Sure there have been reports of different problems on forums like this... But forums by their very nature seem to magnify problems and downplay the strong points of reliability.

In general... people who are having no issues seem not make the posts of "My sled is running well"... but the converse is not true.

IMO... after keeping tabs on this forum, talking to people in the field, dealers and other contacts that I've had exposure to... the PRO RMK 800's have been pretty stellar in the reliability department.... especially in comparison to other years/models/brands.

i went from a fully modded 09 dragon with ez-ryde, fox zeropros in the back, fox evol x ski shocks, screws in the track, boss seat, slp twin pipes, poweraddiction head, PCV, ftx clutching, ftx carbonfiber hood, ETC.

Now i am on a bone stock 11 assault with an HPS can and soon to have some good clutch work. I wouldn't trade back. The 09 had so much more power but it simply wasn't as good of a sled and i never felt as comfortable jumping it as i do on the 11. Both are great sleds, but the 2011 is a much better place to start. I believe fastrax has a big cc sled in the works.

deepdiver said:

The million dollar question is: Is it 5000.00 better!

Thats using an average sale price of 5-6K on a very good shape low milege IQ. Then the Delta of the new price tag sold at reasonable discount below MSRP.

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i'd say the difference is priceless... how about buying a used 11 pro, bet you could pick a low mileage one up with at least a year of warranty for 8-9k.

I had the opportunity to ride my 08 and the PRO on the same day, same conditions, same hill, same snow this past weekend.

As stated above I have felt that my sled is as easy as it gets in the handling department... but hopping on the PRO and back to the 08 it was pretty clear that the PRO takes less effort to do the same maneauvers. It is crazy easy to go from pointing straight down to hookin' back up... :devil:

Clarke_67 said:

Now i am on a bone stock 11 assault with an HPS can and soon to have some good clutch work.

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Interesting that you put a can on it before doing any clutching...:face-icon-small-sho