Track tension Avid drivers

Hawkster · Jan 9, 2018

fredw said:
Looking tonight at the g4 in the shop I see the plastic rail stops on rails have been gouged up a fair bit and that could only be if track enertia is getting that high above rail stop.. also see that the front antistab wheels don’t look in correct position, and I have 170 thou more ware on my sliders at front compared to any other spot on sliders.. track tension and small drivers must be playing a big role in this on the few 120 miles this sled has on it

Could it be possible that your riding style is causing this ? do you carve a lot ? aggressive carves ? maybe at a faster speed ?

If any of the above the track has no choice no matter how tight it is .

Could be that simple .

Wait till you start bending full clips :face-icon-small-hap

mountainhorse · Jan 9, 2018

Sincerely curious as to how paddles laying down on downhill braking will stop your sled any faster??

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mountainhorse · Jan 9, 2018

Tensione

As a note... for some that may not know....Track tension is about much more than just ratcheting-prevention or preventing stabbing.

If the track is allowed to distort from lack of 'take up" tension ... It will loose performance in both traction and braking, wear the track and hyfax faster and shorten the life of the track.

If you are not tightening the track after every ride for the first 6-10 rides or so.... it's too loose... These new tracks take a while to 'take a set' and stop stretching a lot.

So, my answer to this question.....

TWARD700 said:
What is everyone running for track tension with Avid drivers?

The same tension as using stock drivers.

My 2¢

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mountainhorse · Jan 9, 2018

From a thread in the Polaris forums.

This is what happens to the belt of the track as paddles lay down when there is not sufficient tension.... The track "wrinkles" in a saw-tooth fashion down the hyfax as the belt is not sufficiently tight to prevent distortion of the track. Yes, there will be 'SOME' distortion...but the less, the better.

The more the paddles can stand up... the better you are off for traction and braking.... Tip flexibility in blower-pow is much different than full paddle flex that distorts the track at it's root.

Once it distorts the belt and tips up the clips 'on edge' like this (or the lack of clip and you are rubber-on-hyfax).... I can guarantee that the friction skyrockets and the energy needed to turn the track is increased.... along with track and hyfax wear.

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fredw · Jan 9, 2018

Once I get my 175 back from the dealer we will do a comparaion of the two going doen the same hill, same conditions.. To put this to rest

But remember when I took my buddy's sled it was evident quick how much more speed was gained going down a knarly hill where the older loser t3 track I was able to come to a complete stop

I would not think paddles would fold over like your picture, over the complet track, but maybe a fraction of that and may cause more friction with snow causing the better breaking.. Be a fun test to do

i'llDooit · Jan 9, 2018

fredw said:
Once I get my 175 back from the dealer we will do a comparaion of the two going doen the same hill, same conditions.. To put this to rest

But remember when I took my buddy's sled it was evident quick how much more speed was gained going down a knarly hill where the older loser t3 track I was able to come to a complete stop

I would not think paddles would fold over like your picture, over the complet track, but maybe a fraction of that and may cause more friction with snow causing the better breaking.. Be a fun test to do

What was the problem with your sled? You said it had lost a cylinder or something?

fredw · Jan 9, 2018

Ya it sounds like pto side let go, heard today crank bearings found in ports, and replacement motor is on back order, sled has been down almost two weeks now and winter is waisting away.. My G4 love is disappearing quick..

ak · Jan 10, 2018

Here’s what carl says

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dyCn7SYGfy8

mountainhorse · Jan 10, 2018

You can also purchase a 15lb kettle bell at a sports shop and hang it from the track or put it in between the rails on the track.

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fredw · Jan 10, 2018

On my 175 after I got new sled home from dealer I seen I was almost two thirds down the tighting rail at big wheel end on track, if I tighten it to Carl's spec, I would be out thread in 600 miles..

Also remember this is from doo, same guys that said tmotion and our skids are perfect for the mountains..and we know how they work

Hawkster · Jan 10, 2018

https://www.grainger.com/product/6AGK7

$27.30

mountainhorse · Jan 10, 2018

I prefer a constant force

Hawkster said:
$27.30

I have a couple of those in my tool box.

I much prefer the constant force of a fixed weight when adjusting the the tension on the track.... I actually have a pair of gauge blocks I made from wood that I set on the track that allows me to watch the 'take up' when I'm moving the adjusters.

A 15lb kettle bell costs about $10

My 2¢

mountainhorse · Jan 10, 2018

fredw said:
... if I tighten it to Carl's spec, I would be out thread in 600 miles..

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much 5 or 6 turns tightens the track... and brings it to the correct level... and you won't 'use up' your available amount of adjustment.

The different OEMS have different measurements/weights when verifying the tension on the track....
Polaris uses 10 lbs but only 3/4", about 1/3 distance of the rail from the rear axle
Cat uses 20 lbs, 2.0" gap, MID track
Doo uses 15 lbs, 1.25" also MID track.

These all come out 'in the wash' to be almost identical tension.

The tension recommendations come from Camso directly to the mfg... the mfgs write it up in their own manuals how they see fit.

Camso makes the tracks on all the brands above.

The Camso engineers that I've spoken to in person also agree with the point that correct tension is key to getting the track to perform well.

They acknowledge that to many the tracks may SEEM too tight to many and goes against the 'dinner table logic' discussed by many sledders that looser tracks free up hp and move the sled better/higher/faster.

In actuality, a taller lug track, ie the 3" lugs we see today as common place... are more sensitive to incorrect tension than a track with a less tall lug, say 2.5"

In the end, it is your sled... and do what you feel makes YOUR riding better.

Good luck.

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fredw · Jan 10, 2018

Very true, talking with redline today again, they ordered another dozen drivers from advid so they don't have to run the tracks so tight on the g4s and not ratchet.. Personal preference and common sense for me

LoudHandle · Jan 10, 2018

Extroverts (regardless of brand) are just a band aid for inept OEM engineering (read: stupidly small drivers; with only one drive lug engaged at any given time) and lazy owner maintenance practices.

Granted unless you build a sled from scratch now a days the OEM's have you ham strung with their designs revolving around the stupidly small drivers.

The myth being that the small driver is better for acceleration due to the smaller moment of inertia, but that assumes it is actually able to grab / turn the track, which we all know is not the case.

1Mike900 · Jan 21, 2018

Here is a thought for you guy's, looking at the 1st video that is the way my secondary clutch revolves, very easy! Now looking at how much belt heat/clutching problems the G4 has, maybe secondary resistance is too high? Is this due to too small drivers, or overly tensioned tracks? Fred, was your clutches running hot and is this what led to the PTO bearing failure? I bet there will be quite a few engine failures due to the excess clutch temps. I would do a clutch temp with tight track and loose if less tension makes the secondary turn easier? Mike

fredw · Jan 21, 2018

Not really sure Mike, I left the complete plastic cover in place and was surprised by how dirty engine compartment was, but I never blew any belts up in the few 200km before motor blew.. But you could be onto something, bring the temp gun with next

I do know that the 850 secondary takes two hands to turn, so there is much more resistance, track, drivers or tension..

fredw · Jan 23, 2018

Here is the video of the G4 175 on same stand checking the rolling ressiantance of track with sixth tooth drivers and a much tighter track.. Close to ten times more rolling resistance over camo 174 inch on 9tooth drivers and loose track
https://youtu.be/vgkTHlTvkIQ

And here is same video but with the xm and 9 tooth drivers and looser track
Common sense tells a guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0Jyn_kJtI

i'llDooit · Jan 23, 2018

fredw said:
Here is the video of the G4 175 on same stand checking the rolling ressiantance of track with sixth tooth drivers and a much tighter track.. Close to ten times more rolling resistance over camo 174 inch on 9tooth drivers and loose track
https://youtu.be/vgkTHlTvkIQ

And here is same video but with the xm and 9 tooth drivers and looser track
Common sense tells a guy..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo0Jyn_kJtI

I see your point.

1Mike900 · Jan 28, 2018

Moutainhorse, what temperature is the MFG. recommending to check the slack/w. weight? If I was in a garage (man cave)
with the furnace running and about 68 deg., would I be setting it with factory slack? If I was in 46 deg. weather would it be the same? How about on the mtn. in 15 deg.? I bet the track will contract with temp way more than the skid will shrink in proportion to temp? Maybe some are setting in the wrong temp, and are beyond banjo tight? I bet a 165 to 175" track at least stretches 1" min. at 68 deg.? Mike

Track tension Avid drivers

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