Fix Kits!

yz400ex · Mar 21, 2013

Even though I do not need a fix kit, I still get on here multiple times per day to read this thread.. It is entertaining and informative at the same time. There should be more threads like this around instead of what kind of bumper or what wrap should I get.. Threads like this are why I paid for a membership!

Thank you everyone who has posted information in this thread.. This is one of those threads that makes me NOT regret paying the membership fee!!

mountainhorse · Mar 21, 2013

snowmobiler said:
my gramma loves dan and kelsey

snowmobiler... put down the crack pipe and step back...:face-icon-small-con

.

Leaf27 · Mar 21, 2013

yz400ex said:
Even though I do not need a fix kit, I still get on here multiple times per day to read this thread.. It is entertaining and informative at the same time. There should be more threads like this around instead of what kind of bumper or what wrap should I get.. Threads like this are why I paid for a membership!

Thank you everyone who has posted information in this thread.. This is one of those threads that makes me NOT regret paying the membership fee!!

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^

mountainhorse · Mar 21, 2013

For me... one full season on a top end in what essentially is a race engine... a lightweight 2 stroke, 2 cylinder engine that puts out over 175 hp/liter is pretty darn good.

PM should have you freshening your top end every season if you ride more than 1000 miles. ... I find that to be reasonable.

The fact that these engines often see more than that... is pretty darn good.

Great to have people that are constantly looking for new ways to make things last longer and take the abuse and neglect that we throw at them in some pretty insane climate changes and crazy WOT pulls.

.

trackvs2wheels · Mar 21, 2013

mountainhorse said:
For me... one full season on a top end in what essentially is a race engine... a lightweight 2 stroke, 2 cylinder engine that puts out over 175 hp/liter is pretty darn good.

PM should have you freshening your top end every season if you ride more than 1000 miles. ... I find that to be reasonable.

The fact that these engines often see more than that... is pretty darn good.

Great to have people that are constantly looking for new ways to make things last longer and take the abuse and neglect that we throw at them in some pretty insane climate changes and crazy WOT pulls.

Mountainhorse...you are the man when it comes to Polaris sleds and I very rarely disagree with what you say...however, the above post I totally disagree with. When did we stop expecting manufacturers to build us an engine that would last 3-4k miles? 5-8 years ago it was NEVER mentioned that after a season on a brand new sled you needed to "freshen" the top end...that's just crazy talk. Anyway, I just think by us consumers being "ok" with not pushing Polaris to build something reliable and powerful we are doing ourselves a big discredit.

That's me $0.02 anyways...

Of course, what do I know...I keep buying the stupid things!!!!:face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-dis

Leaf27 · Mar 21, 2013

trackvs2wheels said:
mountainhorse said:

For me... one full season on a top end in what essentially is a race engine... a lightweight 2 stroke, 2 cylinder engine that puts out over 175 hp/liter is pretty darn good.

PM should have you freshening your top end every season if you ride more than 1000 miles. ... I find that to be reasonable.

The fact that these engines often see more than that... is pretty darn good.

Great to have people that are constantly looking for new ways to make things last longer and take the abuse and neglect that we throw at them in some pretty insane climate changes and crazy WOT pulls.

Mountainhorse...you are the man when it comes to Polaris sleds and I very rarely disagree with what you say...however, the above post I totally disagree with. When did we stop expecting manufacturers to build us an engine that would last 3-4k miles? 5-8 years ago it was NEVER mentioned that after a season on a brand new sled you needed to "freshen" the top end...that's just crazy talk. Anyway, I just think by us consumers being "ok" with not pushing Polaris to build something reliable and powerful we are doing ourselves a big discredit.

That's me $0.02 anyways...

Of course, what do I know...I keep buying the stupid things!!!!:face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-dis

Click to expand...

5-8 years ago sleds were not as light and making as much HP in general. It's the price you pay to have machines that will take you places that back in the day would not be so easy to get to.

Jaynelson · Mar 21, 2013

CRFfred said:
trackvs2wheels said:

5-8 years ago sleds were not as light and making as much HP in general. It's the price you pay to have machines that will take you places that back in the day would not be so easy to get to.

Click to expand...

And guys never put the miles on them we do now....or lets say, as many abusive miles. I could never hold my 2001 RMK wide open as long as my 2011 because it would have given up and got stuck, or got turned around because I came to something I couldn't dodge around....now you can hold these new ones pinned for a couple minutes, dodge your way around stuff, sidehill, whatever and it just keeps going. Not to mention you back still feels good enough after lunch that you don't have to turn down the riding.

That said, I'm all for power and reliability. Seems that Doo and Cat have a little better balance of the 2 than Pol at this time, but hey I've had 2,000 miles with lots of WOT on my 2011 Pro no reliability issues whatsoever. And I've got 2.5 years of riding a great/fun chassis while others were waiting to see what develops. AND if we choose to, there are some great options with a range of benefits and prices to make it better + more reliable......so all in all, that's pretty cool.

Relatively speaking, of course.....If I had to think about and maintain my vehicles as much as my sled, I'd light them on fire

silberpro · Mar 21, 2013

I have a KTM 300. For those of you who are not familiar, it is probably one of the best 2 stroke engines there is.
That engine works no where near as hard as my Pro 800 in the deep stuff.
Piston replacement is at 150 hrs. Most serious riders change them out at 80 to 100.
The fact that these big twin 2 strokes running over 8000 rpms for as long as they do, is incredible.
New pistons every year, without question....

fastlane · Mar 21, 2013

I agree these sleds are seeing more abuse, they have more power, lighter etc, the manufacturers are running the fuel leaner, less oil etc. to meet EPA standards it has to affect the reliability at some point. I have a 90 Indy 400 liquid with 12000 miles, motor has never been touched and still has good compression and runs great lol. What happened to those days.....

mattymac · Mar 21, 2013

another thing I think most people overlook on these engines is the how much hp it takes just to overcome drivetrain resistance! These engines are running at such a hard load just to move everything between the primary clutch and the track, then put a huge track, long paddles and get it to turn in snow which puts even more resistance on it! (also through a belt on top of that which also is incredible IMO)

Go push a quad or twist the tires to get it to roll, then do the same with a sled!

It is asking alot in the environment we place these machines in but I litterally have in my trailer at times 1 skidoo, 1 cat, 1 polaris, and 1 yammaha.... the reliability factor is still lacking in the newer polaris and doo sleds which something more can be done from the manufacturer IMO! But on the other hand it gives job security to people like kelsy and dan!

GoBigParts · Mar 21, 2013

I still have an 08 600HO RMK with around 8000 miles and never touched the pistons or rings and still have 119 psi per side. Love that sled.

Love my 12 ProRMK even more.

Thunder101 · Mar 21, 2013

The 70 x 2 = 140mm .... That would be awesome, Piston life would be staggering. 140mm is not practical in this design IMO.

My God the spacer would be massive and the case volume jump would hurt more then it would help imo

OEM stock is 132mm

I am not talking about pistons anymore ever on this motor.

Cat has the same 85mm bore 70mm stroke and the have a 140mm rod , Doo has 72mm stroke and 82mm bore (it's late and going off memory) and has a rod length of,,? Point is Poo need to fire there engine designer! Or is that Doo ?

mountainhorse · Mar 21, 2013

There are costs and benefits to every change in design... more mass... inertia (aka "gyro" effect) TDC dwell... etc... One of the main design considerations of the 800 CFI has always been to make a compact motor and keep that "gyro" effect to a minimum.

If you put a cat motor or a Doo motor in a PRO RMK... It would most certainly "feel" different...even if you put the crankshaft location in the same place in the chassis.

.

briand · Mar 22, 2013

Coleniuk said:
Hello guys! Just wondering how the fix kits are running as I may end up buying one to freshen up my pro for next year!

What kit do you have?

What year is the sled the kit is installed on?

How well is the kit working for you?

Did you notice any power increase after being installed?

Do you have any other mods with the kit?

How many miles do you have on the kit?

Any other information that I have possibly forgot would be great!

Thanks guys!!

I installed the dropin kit in my 800 2012 at 185 miles. Rings were flaking really bad so i decided to do the dropin.

After all the research I done I found that i could ride it ( dropin kit) very similar to stock, warming up the same and riding the same as stock which is what I did. Now when we installed the kit i had it measured and had .0045 clearance in the PTO side and .00455 clearance in the mag side ( Piston to wall). I mention for this for later on.

Made one trip up in Jan with the kit and it preformed very well. I had the 13.1 dome in it at the time because I ride a fair bit at home at 2500 ft and Kelsey told me then that i would not see top power at high altitude with that dome. Anyways I was not looking for a all out power gain as much as I wanted to improve the clearance issues and for me the power gain was noticeable and i was happy with it.

Now in January My two riding buddies turbo up there sled and of course I couldn't be left behind so to speak so I ended up turboing mine.:face-icon-small-ton I had ordered Keylsey's 12.1 turbo domes for the next trip with the turbo but somehow the post office was really late getting the domes there for the trip so I ended up using the 13.1 domes and used 50/50 race fuel with 91 octane gas and just 6 # of boost I called boondocker on this and they said that would be fine to run at 6 #.). Now this is the reason why I mentioned the clearance. On the mountain we found that in Canada the numbers that came with the boondocker box is on the lean side at wot was seeing a/f no's at 13. and thees no's were on long 60 sec pulls. We were fine tuning the box and got the a/f down to about 12 and was cleaning up the wot 6700 rpm psi numbers when I inadvertently changed the top wide open tps setting at 8200 psi instead of the 6700 psi range with out noticing (Held the button a little to long and it had advanced to 8200). I made my long pull and about 50 seconds into the pull I glanced at my a/f gauge and it was showing 13.8. I turned out and headed down the hill. Now I was worried that I might have hurt the engine with that high of a ratio but it ran fine the rest of the weekend. On this trip I put on a little over 200 miles. So I don't know if the a/f (13.8) ratio got high enough to be a concern here but with the other forged piston I have used in the past on previous sleds I feel there was a greater chance i would have squeaked it. With The stock cast piston would it have survived? Probably would have with the clearance that's in there.

Anyways returned home and low and behold the domes were there. Torn the head off to change domes and inspected the pistons tops and found them to be in perfect shape. Took the power valves off to inspect the piston walls and no scuffing at all and rings look like new. Cylinder walls look better then when the stock pistons were in there as there was no scuffing marks at all compared to when i inspected it when I had the OEM pistons in there. Now I did not take the cylinders off to check the intake side but I plan on doing so later on this summer just to feel safe.

I put another 150 miles on that trip in late Feb And it ran perfect.

This is my experience with the RK tec dropin kit.

I'm sure that the other kits out there are great also But I have not used them so can't comment on them.

Hope this helps you out Coleniuk.

geo · Mar 23, 2013

I know of two companies in the past that offset cylinders to help with piston problems after they overbored a smaller engine to larger cc's.

One was Villiers. I don't know the year but will ask a buddy this week and post next weekend if I remember.
The other was Bultaco in the middle-late 60's when they tried to make their big bore, lol, 200 live (they were successful). Bultaco learned a lot in those early years and came up with a configuration of bore, stroke, rod ratio that proved to be powerful, dependable and torquey in their Pursangs and Astros of the 70's with very simple porting.
Amazingly IMO, that same configuration is still used 30 to 40 years later In what can be argued as the best longest living dirt bike motor in the 300 Gas Gas.

I also remember something about Doo offsetting their piston pin location (would have similar-same effect to cylinder offset) on there early 800's. They said it was to help the pistons during RER use but i think it was to help their intake skirts and cylinders from cracking (I personally experienced that TOO many times lol). Then they tried shimming the piston end of the rod instead of the crank end , then they tried,,,. What was the last piston recall year on Doo's 800 lol.
Over a decade of changes to make a Doo 800 live so Poo's not doing so bad. If they could just would go back in time and talk to the Bultaco engineers from the 60's lol.

Offset. The name Poo decided to call their 13 cylinder. Why?? I don't know but I'd like to know.
I watched the videos and still don't know because of the methods used to illustrate. If I was trying to find this out I would take the piston to TDC and make a line from the center of the piston dome through center of the crankshaft. Then I would take the piston down to BTC and see if the center of the dome is still on that line.
Not on that line means offset cylinder, on that line means not offset.

Anybody done that?

Spaarky · Mar 23, 2013

rmk727 said:
INCONCLUSION; IF YOU WANT A VERY RELIABLE POLARIS 800 CFI YOU HAVE SEVERAL EXCELLENT FIXES TO CONTEMPLATE. FOR AROUND $800.00 YOU CAN GET NEW PISTONS AND A SHIM KIT THATS WORKS FLAWLESSLY OR FOR $2500.00 YOU CAN GET A FLAWLESS STROKED MOTOR. BOTH ARE GREAT IT'S UP TO YOU THE CONSUMER TO LAY DOWN YOUR CASH. A STROKER SOUNDS VERY COOL BUT DO I SPEND THE FLUFF?

As stated its not a stroker motor..... and as stated its a long rod motor. Oh by the way you forgot Dan's warranty.

There is few people I trust 100% in this industry, and Dan is one of em. As a consumer myself, I dont need to know if its an offset cylinder, or why Dan is doing what he is doing. His stuff flat works and lasts forever....

I dont care if he does your motor work, clutch work, or sends you a clutch kit. You know his work will be second to NONE! Plus he has the customer service to back it up. That $2500 is worth every penny at that point to me.

I am looking at Pro's, once I pull the trigger and it shows up. The motor will immediately get yanked. Either the SB will go straight to Dan or I will put in the BB that Dan massaged like a Kobe beef cow. WHY? Because I know that either way when I want to run enough boost through the motor to blow the heads off my Powerstroke, it will without a question live.

My experiences with other motor builders have been lets say poor at best. Called on a head for my buddy.. and got, "you ride Polaris, you shouldnt ride that junk". My favorite is I posted a question about getting a motor running for another buddy. It was very innocent mind you. The motor builder stalked me for weeks and once he found out whos motor it was. He had the balls to call and yell at the gentleman because I was posting bad info about his motor... :face-icon-small-dis I believe he had some mommy issues...

Indy Specialties will have my business until Dan retires or blows himself up shooting fireworks behind the shop.... :face-icon-small-ton

tdorval · Mar 25, 2013

Kelsey, you mentioned having many calls with guys having blown motors, I'm just curious if you have had many people with 13's call in yet?

rmk727 · Mar 26, 2013

Hey Outlaw, I hope you are not thinking I was belittling Dan! Cuz the jest of my comment was that all these spoken of kits seem to work just fine even the MTNTK kit that I personally prefer. Just saying that in this case there are several ways to skin a cat,doo and if you are infavor of Dan's great work that's fine, he's just not the only good one out there. Take notice that no one has chimed in that they purchase kit x and it failed!

indydan · Mar 26, 2013

mattymac said:
another thing I think most people overlook on these engines is the how much hp it takes just to overcome drivetrain resistance! These engines are running at such a hard load just to move everything between the primary clutch and the track, then put a huge track, long paddles and get it to turn in snow which puts even more resistance on it! (also through a belt on top of that which also is incredible IMO)

Go push a quad or twist the tires to get it to roll, then do the same with a sled!

It is asking alot in the environment we place these machines in but I litterally have in my trailer at times 1 skidoo, 1 cat, 1 polaris, and 1 yammaha.... the reliability factor is still lacking in the newer polaris and doo sleds which something more can be done from the manufacturer IMO! But on the other hand it gives job security to people like kelsy and dan!

Matty you just said a mouthful.

The Tornado Kit for the flatlander Rush we put up against any small block Big Bore offered by any shop has as alot of drive line work done to it to get maximum top end. ( the drive line work done completely changes the clutch setup. ) This kit is hands down the fastest flatlander 2 offered today. There is a pack of XCR triples in northern Minnesota.

these sleds will be on the asphalt this summer shows top-end numbers unheasrd of by single pipe twins.

We were battling belt heat & top-end problems until we got the drive line problems solved.

We will be working this spring to possibly offer a kit we market that is fairly priced and easy do to the skid frames of both the flatlander & mountain sleds.

As a matter a fact there is so much drive line work done we can't figure out how to market it yet. ( If you purchased clutch kits from any company and had belt trouble or belt heat the solution is coming ) Even a great clutch kit will sufur if the drive train is robbing horse power.

And as far as the 2013 Long Rod motors we are doing this summer they all come with a 5 year crank, cylinder & Piston warranty. only on motors done april thru june 16th. all other models 3 years and its the best warranty ever offered by any shop. If it wasn't the internet would butcher Indy Specialty.

I will not be back on the forum until next fall. and my private message will be shut off. between the phone and e-mail its all we can manage right now I am sorry for the inconvenience.

We are building a new website to make thing easier for the public and the shop to streamline things. I believe the website will be cutting edge for the powersports. ( One of Snowest members overseas is building it )

Our ebay store will be updated in the next few weeks with changes and motor packages available

Dan

TRS · Mar 26, 2013

There go the blueprinting secrets.

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