2003 Vertical Edge 800 Vibration

clutch man · Jun 20, 2010

Reaper said:
I'm calling bull**** on detination as the cause, everyone I ride with has had or still has an 800 edge, and EVERY single one of us has lost the crank at least once. These motors range from bone stock to slightly ported and piped to all out case/jug porting and twin pipes. The cranks break from poor design, its not IF it breaks, its WHEN.

Polaris quit building the big block 800 because it is a ticking time bomb and everyone knows it!!

You can call bull if you like but you may like to talk to indy dan on this and let him tell what he thinks. Polaris had to make a more copact motor to fit the new chassis is why the stoped building it. If you do heavy mods to it and run race gas it will last longer (no detination) poor clutch does not help eather. The pistons in the big block motor are so tuff that the detination would not hurt the piston much but would brake cranks. With good oil balanced clutch and no detination the canks are just fine.

snownman · Jun 20, 2010

crank problems...

.004" runout is way out of tolerance for anything i would build. you also have to check the CASES for wear, just putting a new crank in an engine with bad cases is only a short term fix. if the cases are BARELY worn you can line bore them, BUT if theres much wear buy new cases AND a new crank at the same time. also make sure you inspect the clutch thoroughly and its a REALLY good idea to send it to slp or someone who can balance it properly. BTW i have lots of bad cranks and cases for sale if anyone wants parts.

Hardass · Jun 20, 2010

In all honesty this is the first time i have heard that it is detination that was taking all the 800 cranks out. and i have never heard Indy Dan talk about that either. i have always heard the cases were the main issue.But we all get to have our own opinion.Maybe Dan will get on here and explain how this is all caused by lack of quality fuel.

Reaper · Jun 20, 2010

clutch man said:
You can call bull if you like but you may like to talk to indy dan on this and let him tell what he thinks. Polaris had to make a more copact motor to fit the new chassis is why the stoped building it. If you do heavy mods to it and run race gas it will last longer (no detination) poor clutch does not help eather. The pistons in the big block motor are so tuff that the detination would not hurt the piston much but would brake cranks. With good oil balanced clutch and no detination the canks are just fine.

So you are saying that if you heavily mod this motor and run race fuel it will run LONGER, another 500 miles maybe? Thats the most rediculous thing I have heard this week. Pretty sad that you cant run a motor in the stock form it was made in and not have it break down prematurely.

My 04 800 has a DET sensor on it, still dumped the cranks. Pretty funny how only the 800 motors are susceptible to this Illusive detination bug isnt it? You can run the 700 motors till the cows come home and they dont throw the cranks.

I went as far as to put a NEW BALANCED clutch on that motor every season, only ran the best fuel and oil and blah blah blah and it still broke the crank.

If what you are saying is true then it still boils down to Polaris designed a faulty motor that has many issues. I shouldn't have to spend massive amounts of money to mod a motor and then stuff race fuel in it to get it to last further than 2 seasons.

clutch man · Jun 20, 2010

Reaper said:
So you are saying that if you heavily mod this motor and run race fuel it will run LONGER, another 500 miles maybe? Thats the most rediculous thing I have heard this week. Pretty sad that you cant run a motor in the stock form it was made in and not have it break down prematurely.

My 04 800 has a DET sensor on it, still dumped the cranks. Pretty funny how only the 800 motors are susceptible to this Illusive detonation bug isn't it? You can run the 700 motors till the cows come home and they don't throw the cranks.

I went as far as to put a NEW BALANCED clutch on that motor every season, only ran the best fuel and oil and blah blah blah and it still broke the crank.

If what you are saying is true then it still boils down to Polaris designed a faulty motor that has many issues. I shouldn't have to spend massive amounts of money to mod a motor and then stuff race fuel in it to get it to last further than 2 seasons.

You can do a simple back the timing off. I don't trust any manufacture on having the crank tru eather so all my 800s i take the crank out and tru them and drill out the oil holes in the case, plus balance the clutch. I have had 2 of my own sled make it over 5000 miles and never broke a crank. only one of my customers have had a broken crank and he tried to put a 70 shot of noss to his 2000 800 with 3600 miles on it and it did not work. other than that none of my 800 Polaris motors have came back with broken cranks.

Reaper · Jun 20, 2010

clutch man said:
You can do a simple back the timing off. I don't trust any manufacture on having the crank tru eather so all my 800s i take the crank out and tru them and drill out the oil holes in the case, plus balance the clutch. I have had 2 of my own sled make it over 5000 miles and never broke a crank. only one of my customers have had a broken crank and he tried to put a 70 shot of noss to his 2000 800 with 3600 miles on it and it did not work. other than that none of my 800 Polaris motors have came back with broken cranks.

I snowchecked a 98 700 rmk, rode it HARD for 6 years and sold it with 6600 miles on it and it is still running today without being touched, thats how a motor should run.

I should only have to put gas and oil in it and ride it, I shouldnt have to back off the timing or tru the crank and all this other stuff. Face it, The 800 is a ticking time bomb, I love the power it makes when it runs but its going to take out the crank.

I dont know what your riding style is but the trail riders dont generally have the issues with these motors that the boondockers have.

I also wouldn't expect you to badmouth what is bringing money into your shop either.

clutch man · Jun 21, 2010

Reaper said:
I snowchecked a 98 700 rmk, rode it HARD for 6 years and sold it with 6600 miles on it and it is still running today without being touched, thats how a motor should run.

I should only have to put gas and oil in it and ride it, I shouldnt have to back off the timing or tru the crank and all this other stuff. Face it, The 800 is a ticking time bomb, I love the power it makes when it runs but its going to take out the crank.

I dont know what your riding style is but the trail riders dont generally have the issues with these motors that the boondockers have.

I also wouldn't expect you to badmouth what is bringing money into your shop either.

The 98 700 was a low compression motor. the new 700 and 800 are high compression motors and i have some of the 700s with the same problems.

As for my riding i was doing boondocking before most were and that is all i do.

Lets just say this, Polaris has had mass crankshaft failure on their 800 Big Block. The New Cat motor has a great bottom-end designed by qualified Suzuki engineers. Where as Polaris has chosen a route of using people that are book smart and field stupid in the crankshaft & crankcase finish product. Polaris has a quality control problem. The 2000 to 2005 800 Big Block is one of the best 800's built to date ( The quality control is what has haunted it ) with that being said that is why my motors last I do not trust the people puting it together but the design is great.

Most of my income comes from Ski-doo and there piston/crank problems.

Reaper · Jun 21, 2010

Well obviously the builder that did my motor must be as incompetent as the guys at Polaris that built it in the first place. Tell you what, I will send my motor to you, you rebuild it your way and I will pay for it. If it throws the crank before 5000 miles you fully reimburse me whatever I paid you.

Hardass · Jun 21, 2010

So on a 03 800 how much do you back the timing off? What i'm asking is how many dagrees and at what rpm?

clutch man · Jun 21, 2010

Hardass said:
So on a 03 800 how much do you back the timing off? What i'm asking is how many dagrees and at what rpm?

If you are going to run at any time below 5000 ft i will back them off.
Polaris says to set it at 29 BTDC@3250 rpm with TPS unpluged
The problem i have found that most are not set there more like 30 BTDC and 31BTDC so i make sure it is at 29 if all the riding is at 5000 ft plus but if it is at lower i set it at 28 BDTC.

clutch man · Jun 21, 2010

Reaper said:
Well obviously the builder that did my motor must be as incompetent as the guys at Polaris that built it in the first place. Tell you what, I will send my motor to you, you rebuild it your way and I will pay for it. If it throws the crank before 5000 miles you fully reimburse me whatever I paid you.

I would say he did not take the time to make sure the case was OK and or that the crank was tru and in time. I spend allot of time on this. My 04 when i got it new i road it about 150 miles and did not like the vibration in it took it apart and the PTO was .002 but the mag was .006 not good when i put it in it was .0001 PTO and the mag .00 dead on. plus i set up the clutch with less than .005 side clearance then sent off the clutch to be balanced. when it went together it was the smoothest 800 out there. They all should be like that, and that is how i do.

Reaper · Jun 21, 2010

The motor was built by the owner of Rocky Mountain Performance in Rigby, Idaho. He is a very reputable builder. The crank was fully rebuilt, trued, timed and then welded, big bearing installed. The top end was ported for the SLP performance edition single pipe, and slp cheater head installed. The cases were fully checked. New pistons, rings and rods, it ran smooth as glass. I am not sure were he set the timing at but I am sure he knows were to set them.

Rest assured this wasnt the first 800 Time Bomb that he has rebuilt. I ran Blue Marble in it before it broke and Amsoil Dominator after it was rebuilt

I buy a NEW clutch every year and take it to Logan Utah to Baker Machine and have it balanced, he is a regular poster here and a very reputable machinist.

I love the way it runs and the power is smooth and seamless, but the dam things just dont stay together. You will be hard pressed to find someone more anal about how thier sled looks, runs, or is tuned and maintained than I am.

I can see from your response that you wont be taking me up on my offer and I can't say I blame you. Getting 5k out of a 800 without throwing the crank is the exception and not the rule.

clutch man · Jun 22, 2010

Reaper said:
The motor was built by the owner of Rocky Mountain Performance in Rigby, Idaho. He is a very reputable builder. The crank was fully rebuilt, trued, timed and then welded, big bearing installed. The top end was ported for the SLP performance edition single pipe, and slp cheater head installed. The cases were fully checked. New pistons, rings and rods, it ran smooth as glass. I am not sure were he set the timing at but I am sure he knows were to set them.

Rest assured this wasnt the first 800 Time Bomb that he has rebuilt. I ran Blue Marble in it before it broke and Amsoil Dominator after it was rebuilt

I buy a NEW clutch every year and take it to Logan Utah to Baker Machine and have it balanced, he is a regular poster here and a very reputable machinist.

I love the way it runs and the power is smooth and seamless, but the dam things just don't stay together. You will be hard pressed to find someone more anal about how thier sled looks, runs, or is tuned and maintained than I am.

I can see from your response that you wont be taking me up on my offer and I can't say I blame you. Getting 5k out of a 800 without throwing the crank is the exception and not the rule.

Do you have them set the side clearance for your belt when you have the clutch balanced. If it is set to wide the constant slamming in will brake cranks too. as for my guaranty my motors have a one year guaranty no mater how many miles you put on so if you 5000 plus on in a year send it over but i will not give money back i Will fix it. Plus i have to install it and set it up.

Reaper · Jun 22, 2010

Yes, side clearances were set on the clutch.

Bend Oregon is a little further than I want to travel to get a motor rebuilt, installed and setup, and then fixed again once it blows. I only ride about 1500 miles a season so your warranty is as useless to me as your claims of 5000+ miles without blowing a crank. I knew you would have stipulations that insured you wouldn't have to back up your stories. If you could consistently get 5k+ out of these time bombs you would be so busy that you wouldn't have time to be posting here. Anyone can make one last a single season.

I wouldnt want it fixed for the 4th time, I would want my money back as I dont need to get kicked in the nuts 4 times to know it hurts.

When you want to put your money were your mouth is let me know, you make outlandish claims that you cannot and will not backup.

I have a '04 800 Vertical Edge for sale that needs a bottom end if anyone is interested. New 159 track, MM extensions, big wheel kit, brand new ryde ajustable shocks all the way around, new seat, slp single performance edition pipe, ported and cheater head.....brand new clutch also.

clutch man · Jun 22, 2010

warm up

Its all very simple WARM-UP-WARM-UP-WARM-UP.

( Most ) crank problems on ALL makes of sleds are do to improper warm-up. PERIOD.
Reaper how do you warm up your sled??
How much for the 04 polaris??

Reaper · Jun 22, 2010

As soon as the truck is parked the sled is started on the trailer and warms up while I put my gear on, both side coolers are very warm before it is unloaded. It is then shut off and allowed to heat sink while I wait for the rest of the crew to get ready and to fill the oil resivoir.

Like I said, I am very anal about how my sled is treated, setup and maintained.

I want $2000 for the sled, less than 500 miles on the 159 track, clutch, shocks, driveshaft and chaincase bearings, big wheel kit, MM rail extensions. All the sled needs is a new crank.

likinit2 · Jun 23, 2010

Hardass said:
So on a 03 800 how much do you back the timing off? What i'm asking is how many dagrees and at what rpm?

On my 03 I advanced the timing because it was so retarded from the factory. The timing marks didn't make any sense as I had three of these at the same time. It is a real pain in the arse but I went so far that they would destroy the bendix on the starter without a full charge and a good battery for the e start. The one I backed off the most (my wifes) for the estart, the crank lasted 8000 miles. Mine is still going with 13000 plus mountain and sea level miles and I sold one that had all trail miles with many mods with 4000 miles and last I knew still going strong and I have to think it has to have twice that on it by now. The only thing I did with the one with all the mods was buy a motor plate from Brad. These motors make way more power at sea level than they do up at 10k ft even if modded! also they seem to have less problems crank wise at sea level. I have even kept it pinned on several occasions for minutes at a time showing 110-117 mph on the speedo with a 144x1.25 track.. So, if your talking deto you must be a flatlander and if you are stupid enough to hold it at a steady rpm in the 5500 to 6000 rpm range, yes you can grenade one in nothing flat! other than that it still seems as though the crank issue does not make sense. Maybe if you are a throttle jockey that kills em too?????

clutch man · Jun 23, 2010

likinit2 said:
On my 03 I advanced the timing because it was so retarded from the factory. The timing marks didn't make any sense as I had three of these at the same time. It is a real pain in the arse but I went so far that they would destroy the bendix on the starter without a full charge and a good battery for the e start. The one I backed off the most (my wifes) for the estart, the crank lasted 8000 miles. Mine is still going with 13000 plus mountain and sea level miles and I sold one that had all trail miles with many mods with 4000 miles and last I knew still going strong and I have to think it has to have twice that on it by now. The only thing I did with the one with all the mods was buy a motor plate from Brad. These motors make way more power at sea level than they do up at 10k ft even if modded! also they seem to have less problems crank wise at sea level. I have even kept it pinned on several occasions for minutes at a time showing 110-117 mph on the speedo with a 144x1.25 track.. So, if your talking deto you must be a flatlander and if you are stupid enough to hold it at a steady rpm in the 5500 to 6000 rpm range, yes you can grenade one in nothing flat! other than that it still seems as though the crank issue does not make sense. Maybe if you are a throttle jockey that kills em too?????

Reaper
I quoted this post so you can read it again, and i don't even know this Guy but he has 3 800s and all them high miles.
So much for outlandish claims that I cannot and will not backup. there are allot of them out there too ether you did some thing wrong or the engine builder did simple as that.

Reaper · Jun 23, 2010

clutch man said:
Reaper
I quoted this post so you can read it again, and i don't even know this Guy but he has 3 800s and all them high miles.
So much for outlandish claims that I cannot and will not backup. there are allot of them out there too ether you did some thing wrong or the engine builder did simple as that.

He is a flatlander/trail rider Clutchman ( no offence to the poster), I stated in an earlier post on this thread and I quote "I dont know what your riding style is but the trail riders dont generally have the issues with these motors that the boondockers have."

You can't compare the shockload that mountain sleds take to the shockloads that trail riding sled would take. I would expect you to know there are major differences here.

I thought I was a Polaris fanboy but I can't hold a candle to you. It is GENERAL knowledge that the 800 Polaris motor has MAJOR crank issues. Make all the excuses you want for the motor but it wont change that fact.

The only thing I did wrong with my motor is I started it, if I wouldn't have done that it would still be running now, or would it??

clutch man · Jun 23, 2010

Well i can name 8 or 10 that are right here in mt country that have high miles and never any crank problems. 3 That i ride with, 2 are over 5000 amd one just under. I have rebuilt 5 of 800s at or above 5000 no crank problems and all those were 2000 or 2001 the worst for crank problems. I have had 2 that went over 5000 of my own. The reason why I will only stand behind my 800 if i install them, you have to have them in the sled to check the timing. Not one 800 that has come to me has had the timing set right ever.
also as the last post stated 5000 to 6000 rpm is about the hardest on this motor so trail riders at slow speeds would have more problems.
I have made pulls from 6300 ft to 9300 ft in one pull full throttle for over a minute so my sleds get a work out and i like ridding in the trees in deep powder were the motor never gets a rest. I HAVE NEVER BROKEN A CRANK
with about 13000 miles on 3 800 i would say i am doing good.

2003 Vertical Edge 800 Vibration

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