Awesome thread about race fuel and 100LL

dubbs · Dec 13, 2010

Just found this thread in the Polaris section... There is a pile of good info here, making me pretty pumped about trying out 100LL...

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=220800&highlight=mixing+gas

mynewuseddoo · Dec 14, 2010

Good find dubbs. I use 100ll in my sled at 9 psi boost and it runs great!

zrt1 · Dec 14, 2010

I run it in my 900 turbo @ 12psi with no trouble at all

av8er · Dec 14, 2010

I have run avgas for years in my Mod sleds

but keep in mind 100ll was designed for large discplacement lower HP engines(as compared to the auto industry) example TSIO 360 is a fuel injected 360 cubic inch motor only putting out 225 Hp with a turbo charger) in the auto world that same 350-360ci motor with a turbo would be putting out 400 plus Hp, these aircraft engines run under 3000 rpm typically about 2700 rpm max for only 5 minutes during takeoff then are turned down to about 2400-2500 rpm for cruise flight. now take this leaded low rpm fuel and stick it in your highly modified, turboed sled and have it run up to 8000 or more rpm and expect it to last. not saying right or wrong just some words of wisdom from a pilot with 19 years experience with avgas.

x-5 · Dec 14, 2010

Good point but what about an r1 built and spinning over 14000 o and has over 15000 miles? Ill stay with the 100ll. Yet to let me down and right now under 4 bucks a gallon :face-icon-small-coo

mynewuseddoo · Dec 14, 2010

av8er said:
but keep in mind 100ll was designed for large discplacement lower HP engines(as compared to the auto industry) example TSIO 360 is a fuel injected 360 cubic inch motor only putting out 225 Hp with a turbo charger) in the auto world that same 350-360ci motor with a turbo would be putting out 400 plus Hp, these aircraft engines run under 3000 rpm typically about 2700 rpm max for only 5 minutes during takeoff then are turned down to about 2400-2500 rpm for cruise flight. now take this leaded low rpm fuel and stick it in your highly modified, turboed sled and have it run up to 8000 or more rpm and expect it to last. not saying right or wrong just some words of wisdom from a pilot with 19 years experience with avgas.

Again, I use 100ll in my sled at 9 psi boost and it runs great. That's a lot of numbers and comparisons you've got there but keep in mind, I actually do run this in my sled and know many other turbo owners who do as well. Not a single issue in high RPM applications, 2 or 4 stroke. This is first hand experience from sleds I see on a very regular basis.

I'm not doubting your aircraft knowledge, just saying that 100ll is more versatile than you may think.

dubbs · Dec 25, 2010

Well I'm a bit nervous but am going to give the LL a try. I have the OVS tial kit with intercooler and am going to try running 12 PSI. Got some advise from some experienced people that are running it up to 14 PSI intercooled at elevation so should be safe with 12PSI.

Would sure like to hear from more M owners that are using this fuel.

I'll let you know how it went next weekend!

Thanks.

matt159 · Dec 25, 2010

m8t BD RG on 100LL

I spun my 08 m8t up to 12.5 lbs (intercooled BD RG) at 10,000 feet last weekend. Zero detonation problems on 100% 100LL. BD box showed 125 degree F max charge temps at 12.5 psi after several 20 second WOT pulls. Ambient air temp was in the teens. AV gas works great for me.

wasatchcomm · Dec 25, 2010

dubbs said:
Well I'm a bit nervous but am going to give the LL a try. I have the OVS tial kit with intercooler and am going to try running 12 PSI. Got some advise from some experienced people that are running it up to 14 PSI intercooled at elevation so should be safe with 12PSI.

Would sure like to hear from more M owners that are using this fuel.

I'll let you know how it went next weekend!

Thanks.

i have 2010 m8 with the bd rg kit, cooler, fuel upgrade,ebc
im running straight avgas
ive had mine up to 8lbs @4500', was running fine, my charge temps also never got above 125, i havent tried higher boost than that yet.
i know mbms is running the same kit as i on a 2011 m8 and he said he started hitting the det sensor around 11lbs, not sure what elevation he was at though... if you pm him he will let you know, great guy, has lots of good info

Klimbing Kitty · Dec 25, 2010

wasatchcomm said:
i have 2010 m8 with the bd rg kit, cooler, fuel upgrade,ebc
im running straight avgas
ive had mine up to 8lbs @4500', was running fine, my charge temps also never got above 125, i havent tried higher boost than that yet.
i know mbms is running the same kit as i on a 2011 m8 and he said he started hitting the det sensor around 11lbs, not sure what elevation he was at though... if you pm him he will let you know, great guy, has lots of good info

MBMS was around 4500 feet I think at Bear Paw. His sled does haul a$$ though

JasonAK · Dec 26, 2010

Good information here: Read this entire Article.

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=4503701&contentId=57723

Avgas Is designed to work no matter what the conditions are High RPM Low RPM, extreme temperature and elevation changes, both turbo and super charged applications. Big bore or small bore. There is no higher quality fuel you can buy. You can buy higher octane fuel (race fuel) but not higher quality. Pump fuel does not even come close(you can get bad gas at the pump) but your life depends on your fuel in an airplane.

With that said as long as your octane requirement is not higher than 100 you will be fine. I have a 100 Gal. tank in my truck and buy it from the local fuel supplier for about $.30 more per gallon than pump gas 90.

Jason

WyoBoy1000 · Dec 26, 2010

Answer this.
Why do all the turbo kit builders say not to use it, is there a reason or are they to lazy to research it.

mynewuseddoo · Dec 26, 2010

WyoBoy1000 said:
Answer this.
Why do all the turbo kit builders say not to use it, is there a reason or are they to lazy to research it.

Who says not to use it?

matt159 · Dec 26, 2010

mynewuseddoo said:
Who says not to use it?

My thought as well. I have seen race gas "recommended" but I have not seen a turbo mfg say that you shouldn't use 100LL -- unless you are running boost levels that are beyond what 100LL can handle. Most manufacturers are advertising "pump gas kits" and "race gas kits." If they are designing their race gas kits for 14+ pounds of boost, my estimation is that AV Gas won't perform safely at that level of boost so they don't recommend it. If you want to run 12-13 lbs on 100LL at 11,000+ elevation with an intercooler, my experience says you'll get along fine. But if you want 12-13 lbs at 6000 elevation, it would be safer to run a higher octane race gas.

dubbs · Dec 26, 2010

WyoBoy1000 said:
Answer this.
Why do all the turbo kit builders say not to use it, is there a reason or are they to lazy to research it.

I know that is why I'm so torn on whether I should try it or not... Travis told me not to bother with it says he has been using VP 110 and runs it up to 18 PSI with an intercooler with no problems... But so many people on here are using the LL and having success with it kinda tough not to try it when you consider the price diff...

I know one burn down would offset the price diff pretty quick but I kinda want to give it a try even with all the naysayers... It's too dry, not enough octane... I'll take it up slow and keep the A/F and charge air temps in check. Curious to see what the off boost performance will be like including throttle response ect...

I'm gonna be in Revy Thurs with it:face-icon-small-hap Looks like there should be a foot of fresh and some sun... Pretty pumped

Hope to report back with success!

dubbs · Dec 26, 2010

JasonAK said:
Good information here: Read this entire Article.

http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=4503701&contentId=57723

Avgas Is designed to work no matter what the conditions are High RPM Low RPM, extreme temperature and elevation changes, both turbo and super charged applications. Big bore or small bore. There is no higher quality fuel you can buy. You can buy higher octane fuel (race fuel) but not higher quality. Pump fuel does not even come close(you can get bad gas at the pump) but your life depends on your fuel in an airplane.

With that said as long as your octane requirement is not higher than 100 you will be fine. I have a 100 Gal. tank in my truck and buy it from the local fuel supplier for about $.30 more per gallon than pump gas 90.

Jason

Just read that article... Ya when they say stuff like "Avgas is the highest quality fuel a refinery can make" that makes a guy feel pretty good about it. I guess just don't push it beyond it's octane range and Bobs your uncle.....

matt159 · Dec 26, 2010

dubbs said:
Well I'm a bit nervous but am going to give the LL a try. I have the OVS tial kit with intercooler and am going to try running 12 PSI. Got some advise from some experienced people that are running it up to 14 PSI intercooled at elevation so should be safe with 12PSI. Thanks.

Do these 14 PSI people ride at the same elevation as you? Based on the earlier post of the m8 hitting the det sensor at 11psi at 4500 feet, 12psi may be a little close to the edge for 6-7K if that's where you ride. Assuming the same charge temps, my 12.5 psi at 10,000 feet is the same risk as you running 10.8 psi at 6000 feet.

I would start at 11psi (or less) and dial it up from there. Can you change boost levels easily on the mountain with a tial setup?

dubbs · Dec 26, 2010

I would start at 11psi (or less) and dial it up from there. Can you change boost levels easily on the mountain with a tial setup?

My thoughts exactly... Ya my manual boost controller is mounted so I don't even have to open my hood. I usually play between 7 to 9k feet.

That thing is a lot of fun at 10 PSI too... Maybe I should stop being such a HP Junky and just have a good time at 10:face-icon-small-dis Dammit not gonna happen lol

matt159 · Dec 26, 2010

dubbs said:
That thing is a lot of fun at 10 PSI too... Maybe I should stop being such a HP Junky and just have a good time at 10:face-icon-small-dis Dammit not gonna happen lol

I run 90% of the day at 10.5 psi and dial it up to 12.5 when something BIG gets in the way. :face-icon-small-hap Set at 12.5 psi, mine wants to build boost & scoot at partial throttle when sidehilling, but at 10.5 it is easy to manage. My grin is HUGE on either boost level!

WyoBoy1000 · Dec 26, 2010

three diff builders said no, on pg kits. doesn't make sense to me but I figured they had a reason. They where to busy to keep on the phone, I need to call them back and quiz a little more on if they know something or don't know and thats why they say no. I could see it on a rg kit but??????

Awesome thread about race fuel and 100LL

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Member

Member

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads