Unrealistic Expectations - M1100 Turbo ?

pylon · Apr 15, 2011

I'm pretty sure that if you "chipped" the new cats they would compare to a 180 nytro if not beat it . not sure if AC can tell if the sleds have been chipped or not though . But yes a lot of people will be very disappointed . I've hear quite a few shop stories that their new 1100 is going to beat my turbo nytro next year :face-icon-small-con. Hey if its not fast enough just throw more money at it ! that always seems to work :face-icon-small-ton

Mountaintech · Apr 15, 2011

9 Iron said:
i rest my case....50 more HP and a addition 100lbs to do the same running.... why???

One word...........RELIABILITY.

Turblue · Apr 15, 2011

9 Iron said:
why even run a turbo 4 stroke. that turbo 2 stroke Pro is running hard with these nytros and weights 100lbs less. That pro is 9lbs of boost with a 50/50 mix, probably around 230hpish. Those nytros are 15lbs or better with a 100 race, probably 270ish.

Like i said it is running good with them nytros for half the build cost, why build up a 4 stroke!! So your operating costs and build cost is down in comparison. This is the first real comparison with some real riders that actually know who to tune the engines and chassis.

NM great running sled, hurry up and get a etec done:face-icon-small-hap

6 seasons with thw same apex on boost running 14-17psi on pump gas and no engine failures

JustBoostIt · Apr 15, 2011

"chipped 1100T"

For the record I've rode a MCX 310 lightweight Apex for the last 4 years.

I'm lazy so I won't retype the same thing in different lingo. For those that are getting tired of seeing me I apologize...:behindsofa: There is just so few 4s guys that have seat time on the Cat or have rode with that motor modified.

At the expense of posting redundancy I have posted a fair bit on this subject on the ProClimb M forum. I rode the Cat demo ride, specifically the M1100T. I never ever got on a 2s there. For more on the sleds that were there have a look at my posts over there.

As far as how good the motor stands up is somewhat proven from the lake racer guys. It's not Apex tried and true but it's been 2 years on that motor and searches don't find a lot of issues with guys running bigger power. I know drag guys probably don't treat their ride as hard as we do, at least not for the amount of time we do. There are some pretty long lakes thou.....

In some of my other posts I talk about my riding buddy who did the 350 kit on a stretched ZR1 and rode it this winter. Brief highlights are the Hijacker box is good for fuel to 280 but the stock turbo at 6000' is doing 16-17lbs max, so 220ish would be my guess. I rode it in this form. It laid a beat down on his 2011 M8 with 10lbs. We're talking ability to climb, not handling. We all know it's heavier, thank God we don't have to go over that on this forum. I was impressed. With the 2860 on it was mid 20's for boost, and there was room for more, which uses the full potential of the Hijacker.

I snow checked one based on the ride, and I couldn't ride the M chassis so good thing it didn't feel like that. If I hadn't rode it I sure wouldn't have thought I was riding anything else other than the Apex for next year.

For not much more than the cost of my MCX kit you can have the parts for a fully built motor, including cam and springs, and run 350 easily.....and reliably according to people working on these motors. It's the essentially the same build as the motor that laid down 471 at Dynotech by Glenn Hall.

Take it for what's it's worth. I'm just happy someone else has entered the 4s game to push the industry. The Nitro chassis didn't work with me so I was stuck in a holding pattern as far as my next sled. If you have a chance to ride one, regardless of the power, I think you'll be impressed.

I bleed Yami, it's treated me awesome, but in the end I guess I am just a 4s guy.

9 Iron · Apr 15, 2011

Roest said:
One word...........RELIABILITY.

Lol yea you need reliabilty when you have 25000 or better into a sled. Cannot really flip it ever 5000km or less. How much do you really need. Theres becoing more ppl these days with high miles on t2strokes.

And a apex, well these are just old heavy dogs.... but they do sound cool. Not very ergonomic.

noob · Apr 15, 2011

9 Iron said:
Lol yea you need reliabilty when you have 25000 or better into a sled. Cannot really flip it ever 5000km or less. How much do you really need. Theres becoing more ppl these days with high miles on t2strokes.

And a apex, well these are just old heavy dogs.... but they do sound cool. Not very ergonomic.

Time will tell. be cool to see these new cats run this upcoming season. I think your blowing this 25000 dollar thing out of proportion. lots of deals on 180 and 270 mcx kit nytros(stock chassis with turbo running on PUMP gas). Only way to find out is line them up and see what happens.

merlin2569 · Apr 15, 2011

i rest my case....50 more HP and a addition 100lbs to do the same running.... why???

One word RELIABILITY. Not exactly sure but pretty sure that 9 iron is a 4 stroke hater and thats fine he has probably never rode one and doesn't know what he is missing out on. But i guess that is his loss.

9 Iron · Apr 15, 2011

no no i am no 4 stroke hater, i am really on the fence of doing up and 1200 doo. It seems the market is going to be in a big change for 4strokes with the new cat out now and may not be feasible. but after watching a video like this it really makes you question why? theres alot of pros and cons to each side really. If you watch closely on the body english and the way the sled reacts you can really see them 4 strokes your only half in control.

and apples to apples and "new" to "new" comaprison i am not far off on the 18000 to 25000.

noob · Apr 15, 2011

merlin2569 said:
i rest my case....50 more HP and a addition 100lbs to do the same running.... why???

One word RELIABILITY. Not exactly sure but pretty sure that 9 iron is a 4 stroke hater and thats fine he has probably never rode one and doesn't know what he is missing out on. But i guess that is his loss.

sounds like he rides with NM on the turbo'd pro or know's NM. One thing about it is NM sure makes that sled seem to rip up them chutes with little or no effort. I believe I read NM say that with out tracks up some of them he woulnd't have made it up, none the less it is impressive. another case of ford verse chevy vs dodge. You can piss and moan about it all day long and end up in the same place you started. all good sleds, just a matter if you piss blue, green, red or whatever color doo comes out with.

noob · Apr 15, 2011

9 and apples to apples and "new" to "new" comaprison i am not far off on the 18000 to 25000.[/QUOTE said:
7000 is quite a big gap from the screen on my calculator?? there's a smoking deal on a 1200 doo in swap meet. like 8500 bucks. be a good buy for you.

funny you mention body english and control. How many guys you know have perfect control climbing them chutes.lol Looked like NM had a little less control on the tpro then the other guys. but only he can answer that as he's the one riding. keep us posted on what else you find.

Mountaintech · Apr 15, 2011

9 Iron said:
Lol yea you need reliabilty when you have 25000 or better into a sled. Cannot really flip it ever 5000km or less. How much do you really need. Theres becoing more ppl these days with high miles on t2strokes.

And a apex, well these are just old heavy dogs.... but they do sound cool. Not very ergonomic.

No, you need reliability when you're riding areas where sat phones and choppers are your only salvation if your sled lets you down. I'm not even going to argue about 2 stroke turbo reliability.

BigFish BC · Apr 16, 2011

9 Iron said:
no no i am no 4 stroke hater, i am really on the fence of doing up and 1200 doo. It seems the market is going to be in a big change for 4strokes with the new cat out now and may not be feasible. but after watching a video like this it really makes you question why? theres alot of pros and cons to each side really. If you watch closely on the body english and the way the sled reacts you can really see them 4 strokes your only half in control.

and apples to apples and "new" to "new" comaprison i am not far off on the 18000 to 25000.

lets see here poo pro 14000$ turbo kit 6500$ new rear skid because if you think that stock one will do what nm did you have anotherthing coming:face-icon-small-dis2500$ for that hmm how much is that now:face-icon-small-win.oh & i was nice enough to leave out install costs & neils fuel system.if you think a turbo 2stroke is cheap think again oh & that rider made that sled look pretty good even if he was track poaching.:face-icon-small-hap

Jeff C · Apr 16, 2011

I am at a point in my life where I just do not want to wrench on this stuff anymore. Used to, been there, done that, and I have no interest in wrenching.

Four strokes have time again proven themselves to be far superior in terms of reliability. There is no argument there.......

I have been waiting for a stock four stroke turbo for at least five years now. Good reliablity, good power,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and yes some weight to boot......

Ok, so what.........

I think I will never go back to 2 strokes again........

I am just trying to pick the brains of the guys that have been there before me (ahem, ahem, Yammie guys)

firecatguy · Apr 16, 2011

they been running the cat4strk turbo on the trail sleds for a few years now so reliability should be good.....alot grass drag teams been running same with a box and race fuel with huge results.......

tmk50 · Apr 16, 2011

Jeff C said:
I am at a point in my life where I just do not want to wrench on this stuff anymore. Used to, been there, done that, and I have no interest in wrenching.

Four strokes have time again proven themselves to be far superior in terms of reliability. There is no argument there.......

I have been waiting for a stock four stroke turbo for at least five years now. Good reliablity, good power,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and yes some weight to boot......

Ok, so what.........

I think I will never go back to 2 strokes again........

I am just trying to pick the brains of the guys that have been there before me (ahem, ahem, Yammie guys)

Leave it stock, change the oil, put gas in it and ride it then? If you don't want to wrench - that is probably your safest bet. Give it a few trips stock, set up the shocks - and ride it??

Reliability is key for me - I can't imagine going back to a two stroke sled.

wilmot · Apr 16, 2011

9 Iron said:
no no i am no 4 stroke hater, i am really on the fence of doing up and 1200 doo. It seems the market is going to be in a big change for 4strokes with the new cat out now and may not be feasible. but after watching a video like this it really makes you question why? theres alot of pros and cons to each side really. If you watch closely on the body english and the way the sled reacts you can really see them 4 strokes your only half in control.

and apples to apples and "new" to "new" comaprison i am not far off on the 18000 to 25000.

What is there to hate. The 4-STROKE motors run forever, what more do you want. The newer nytro's handle nice. There are tons of awesome mods to make it one of the best on the mtn. Buy a sled with a good motor and buy mods not motors. How much $$$$ do you spend when you buy a 2-stroke? oil,gas,belt's,plugs,motors. (tow strap).

DooTraxx · Apr 16, 2011

9 Iron said:
why even run a turbo 4 stroke. that turbo 2 stroke Pro is running hard with these nytros and weights 100lbs less. That pro is 9lbs of boost with a 50/50 mix, probably around 230hpish. Those nytros are 15lbs or better with a 100 race, probably 270ish.

Like i said it is running good with them nytros for half the build cost, why build up a 4 stroke!! So your operating costs and build cost is down in comparison. This is the first real comparison with some real riders that actually know who to tune the engines and chassis.

NM great running sled, hurry up and get a etec done:face-icon-small-hap

Again this is not correct info. I am running 16-17 lbs and am doing it with pump premium. Should be around 270ish horsepower and I do not have to deal with race fuel.

JustBoostIt · Apr 16, 2011

If your a 4s....your a 4s guy. Period. :director:

Reliability with big power is why we switched. I've done zero repair for failure issues in 4 years, and so have a lot of other guys. Do 2s turbo guys trying to keep up on the hill with 300hp Yammi's get that amount of time on anything running 14-16lbs. Very very few. We change oil. We did not switch because we wanted it to be just like the 2s we came off of.:face-icon-small-win

I ride with a 10lb M8, 180 MCX Nitros, and a 270 Nitro. The 10lb M8 guy built the strectched ZR1 just to see what his riding partner was raving about for last 4 years, and he sold himself on 4s. And that thing is nothing like the new chassis.

At sea level the Hijacker box is fuel for 280. At elevation the turbo is the limiting factor. That is $1500 box on a stock sled and your getting 220-250, depending on elevation, and it handlely beat on his 10lbs 2s. Same rider, and that is 85lbs heavier than the new M1100T.

16K ish (with a box) and turn key 220-250hp. That is a pretty high bar for value.:face-icon-small-hap

0007 · Apr 16, 2011

The thing that is not being mentioned here is, when is the last time you saw a Yamaha break a drive chain, wear out a clutch or roller or weight, or even a belt for that matter
There will always be a story about the guy who broke this and that but overall at 240 - 270 and even more they still have near stock reliability
That's just not the same with some other brands
So I think it's incorrect to simply say 4 strokes are more reliable, yamaha's have always been more reliable even before 4 strokes came along
There's a reason a long list of the who's who of mod sled hill climbing are riding 3 and 4 year old sleds, it ain't the money, it's the fact that it still runs every weekend
Time will tell if if other brands can match that benchmark

NM · Apr 16, 2011

0007 said:
The thing that is not being mentioned here is, when is the last time you saw a Yamaha break a drive chain, wear out a clutch or roller or weight, or even a belt for that matter
There will always be a story about the guy who broke this and that but overall at 240 - 270 and even more they still have near stock reliability
That's just not the same with some other brands
So I think it's incorrect to simply say 4 strokes are more reliable, yamaha's have always been more reliable even before 4 strokes came along
There's a reason a long list of the who's who of mod sled hill climbing are riding 3 and 4 year old sleds, it ain't the money, it's the fact that it still runs every weekend
Time will tell if if other brands can match that benchmark

Actually we have seen 4 broken chains and probably 10-12 grenaded belts on Yammies this yr. I had to buy 2 new clutches this year, and I know of probably 5-6 more that broke in half. Mind you this is all on turbo sleds with big tracks and lot's of horsepower.
They all do things good and not so good. Everyone should pick the one that works best for them. Better yet, buy 2, so there are options. The thing I don't understand is when people come on here and go on and on about how what they ride is the best, when really they have no clue about any of the other brands.
Seen it a million times in the auto industry too.

Unrealistic Expectations - M1100 Turbo ?

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