Infamous det code on decel?

Octanee · Dec 28, 2017

Hey guys, anybody have any experience with this? Sleds been throwing the det code and it seems to be when I go to let off the throttle, it's a boost it kit, running 35% av gas to 65% 94 octane pump. Approx 6-7# at 5000 feet, 2012 pro.

I was breaking trail up a old road with, willows and jumping creeks 3 feet of powder and so she was loaded down and in and out the boost mid range often, sled started out super rich through the bottom end and started bogging, but it threw the det code still, I richened up the top end, still did it. Leaned out the bottom end and it rev'd good. But still rich according to the a/f, and det code.

It seemed to be when I was in and out of the throttle or when I let off after a wide open pull of a few seconds it would throw it. I also bought the boondocker 3 degree Timing key.

I've replaced my tps and it is adjusted correct.

HECKS · Dec 28, 2017

What was the air temp ?
Have you tried increasing your fuel ratio ?
Your running at 96.1 octane with your 35% AV/65% 94
50/50 will net you 97.

sledhead9825 · Dec 28, 2017

Try a little higher Octane. I had a 13 Boost-it Pro it needed more octane than your running.

Octanee · Dec 28, 2017

Thanks for the info, im going to go 50/50 now for this weekend, I dont want to risk an engine, which is also why I got the timing key but it may not pull timing in the mid range.

That ride the air was about - 15 to - 18c so -0f?

Air fuel for some reason was pegged rich at 10:1 all day, I leaned it back to about 11 but with the mid range det trying to happen I left it richer to be safer, and 2 days before that ride in a diff spot, higher elevstion, warmer mind you like - 8c I had it tuned in good with my a/f at 11.5 on the top, but it was a open place to ride so not. Much mid range on off, more wide open or little throttle., again that last ride the same settings but this time it wanted to real rich for some reason in the real cold air, however sled never got a chance to properly unthaw whether that may of got a sensor a bit frosted up? .

sledhead9825 · Dec 28, 2017

Get rid of the timing key. Mix fuel so you end up at around 100 octane. Tune from there. Once you have the tune correct start backing down a bit on Octane. Afr at WOT and pulling should be 12.2 -12.4. Shoot for that.

Octanee · Dec 28, 2017

sledhead9825 said:
Get rid of the timing key. Mix fuel so you end up at around 100 octane. Tune from there. Once you have the tune correct start backing down a bit on Octane. Afr at WOT and pulling should be 12.2 -12.4. Shoot for that.

Why wouldn't I want the key? It will reduce chance of detonation when I'm giving her and the higher boost, I'll see about going higher on the octane, what's everybody else mix for octane at around 5k feet? And 12.2 on the AFR, is that safe for long pulls?

I do appreciate the info and suggestions! Keep it coming g

sledhead9825 · Dec 28, 2017

Octanee said:
Why wouldn't I want the key? It will reduce chance of detonation when I'm giving her and the higher boost, I'll see about going higher on the octane, what's everybody else mix for octane at around 5k feet? And 12.2 on the AFR, is that safe for long pulls?

I do appreciate the info and suggestions! Keep it coming g

Timing keys in some cases, have caused some running problems. You could search other threads. If your running high 90s octane and 7 lbs at 5000 ft theres no need to pull timing. Boost-it never used them. Yes 12.2 - 12.4 on a long pull constant WOT. What I'm saying is. Go back to what Boost-its setup is. It works. I would run 7 Lbs with a mix of 40% VP c-12 and 60% Shell 91. As per Neils Spec. Are you still using the rising rate fuel pressure regulator?

sledhead9825 · Dec 28, 2017

One more thing. That sled properly tuned and setup will school most other turbo kits out there. I speak from expierence. Ive owned a few other brands.

Octanee · Dec 28, 2017

sledhead9825 said:
Timing keys in some cases, have caused some running problems. You could search other threads. If your running high 90s octane and 7 lbs at 5000 ft theres no need to pull timing. Boost-it never used them. Yes 12.2 - 12.4 on a long pull constant WOT. What I'm saying is. Go back to what Boost-its setup is. It works. I would run 7 Lbs with a mix of 40% VP c-12 and 60% Shell 91. As per Neils Spec. Are you still using the rising rate fuel pressure regulator?

I know what you mean with the timing key, it could make some other odd issues come to play potentially. I was thinking on a trip to unplug it to see if I notice any other differences , however throwing a det code you'd think would be the opposite of what's going on? I know some guys who do tuning and custom turbo setups locally, they say to pull 1 degree of timing per # of boost and that one could make some more hp by pulling the timing since boost is different than n/a, so I figure'd it wouldn't hurt to have. And for 7# at 5k feet, from what I *think* I've read wouldn't that be on the high side? Googling sure doesn't turn up a whole lot it seems but it could be due to the "custom tailored" searches that it learns from you over time lol....

layball:

I went to the av gas like so many due to the price, its about 35% more per Liter than the 94 octane, or at that $1.84/liter, Race gas, I believe it was C12 is close to $10/L, so even straight av is much more affordable. However doing the calculation of the C12 being a 108MON fuel and the 91, thats 97.8 octane, so I'll up the av mix to match that and see if it resolves it, Certainly a solid point to start of course.

I am indeed using the rising rate fuel pressure regulator that comes with the kit and have the boost line plumbed to it. I'm going to shoot for a 12 a/f and see what happens as well, I had called to MTNTK and they said too rich can cause an artifical DET code on the bottom end? ever heard of that happening?

I appreciate the info and am learning lots. :thumb:

HECKS · Dec 28, 2017

To add,
double check your secondary injector wires going to your XIC box. Both are white wires. Just had a buddy burn down PTO side piston & cylinders twice in 2 rides $$$$, and just found out tonight that 1 of the injector wires was broke off it's clip and was intermittently not making contact.
He was battling det codes all of last season, and beginning of this one too.

Octanee · Dec 28, 2017

HECKS said:
To add,
double check your secondary injector wires going to your XIC box. Both are white wires. Just had a buddy burn down PTO side piston & cylinders twice in 2 rides $$$$, and just found out tonight that 1 of the injector wires was broke off it's clip and was intermittently not making contact.
He was battling det codes all of last season, and beginning of this one too.

that's a real bummer, I already checked my injectors and wiring. I had a similar issue already with my sled, I bought it this past spring from boost it directly, and it was throwing det codes from the get go, a buddy who rides with them said to me, "oh you bought that sled, yeah it has a problem"..... gee thanks. it had no gauges since they figure they have it dialed in so good. I put the gauges on to see it was lean all the time. I had already ran it wide open in det mode to make a climb before the gauges, Little did I know then that it would of been detonating in limp mode.... took a while to figure out and ruined my sled season. Turned out the Aux/turbo injectors were plugged solid somehow, bad/failed fuel filter? only the turbo injectors though, factory was clean. not flowing beyond the initial burst. The first good ride after I finally fixed it the pistons let go from the detonation. :frusty:

roughrider99 · Dec 28, 2017

I tried a timing key with my boost it box setup and same thing it did not help with fuel requirements and just made performance worse

HECKS · Dec 29, 2017

Octanee said:
that's a real bummer, I already checked my injectors and wiring. I had a similar issue already with my sled, I bought it this past spring from boost it directly, and it was throwing det codes from the get go, a buddy who rides with them said to me, "oh you bought that sled, yeah it has a problem"..... gee thanks. it had no gauges since they figure they have it dialed in so good. I put the gauges on to see it was lean all the time. I had already ran it wide open in det mode to make a climb before the gauges, Little did I know then that it would of been detonating in limp mode.... took a while to figure out and ruined my sled season. Turned out the Aux/turbo injectors were plugged solid somehow, bad/failed fuel filter? only the turbo injectors though, factory was clean. not flowing beyond the initial burst. The first good ride after I finally fixed it the pistons let go from the detonation. :frusty:

****ty deal man. Both pistons toast due to DET ? The turbo sled will knock your wallet size down fast huh. Have you checked your fuel pump and stator resistance ? I had their H.O. kit on my last sled (2011 Pro) and I ended up having to replace both of these items due to high ohm readings, but never had injectors plugged of like you did.
I also went through a 2 throttle body adapters, as the boost pressure would eventually part the rubber with the casting and loose partial boost/fuel into the engine bay. (#3 in picture attached)
Your not running any octane boost of any kind are you ?
I've seen fuel filter material totally hardened by it.
Unplug that timing key and bump your fuel octane up, as mentioned in previous posts, hopefully the key is your issue.

Octanee · Dec 29, 2017

HECKS said:
****ty deal man. Both pistons toast due to DET ? The turbo sled will knock your wallet size down fast huh. Have you checked your fuel pump and stator resistance ? I had their H.O. kit on my last sled (2011 Pro) and I ended up having to replace both of these items due to high ohm readings, but never had injectors plugged of like you did.
I also went through a 2 throttle body adapters, as the boost pressure would eventually part the rubber with the casting and loose partial boost/fuel into the engine bay. (#3 in picture attached)
Your not running any octane boost of any kind are you ?
I've seen fuel filter material totally hardened by it.
Unplug that timing key and bump your fuel octane up, as mentioned in previous posts, hopefully the key is your issue.

Good info, and what was the issue that caused you to have to replace your stator?/fuel pump? On my end I've swapped my fuel pump already, part of previous diagnosis with my issue I had. I had the whole engine apart, I put a new crank in it to be safe I hope, engine had approx 3k km on it apparently, and oil ratio was kept stock or very lean of which I've turned up to about 35:1, so I wasn't going to trust the bottom end. I never had an issue with that part (#3), looked good and I put it back on the engine.

And yeah both pistons let go, the hard failure was the pto side piston, but surprisingly it ran on one cylinder and when boost kicked in it started to go again, others thought the reeds had kicked the bucket.... And upon the tear down the mag piston was broken between the 2 rings waiting to let go.

Still not so fun when you pay all that money for a problem sled and then have to throw another couple grand at it to get to where it should of been day 1!

So now I'm being easy on it and cautious, especially with the det code, happened about 8 times now, seemingly on decel. but keeping it rich until it's resolved. Also why I got the timing key was to hopefully make it safer and lower the odds of any det to occur.... going out tomorrow so should get to see what happens, hopefully it's all gone, I'll start the day off with the timing key unplugged as well.

HECKS · Dec 29, 2017

Hopefully it all turns out for ya !
I turbo'd at 3000km and rode/fixed/repaired to 6600km. But, I was having electrical issues and tested the stator and was well above its limit. Running the extra oil pump, water pump, AFR gauge, XIC, & injectors it was struggling. Just chasing running issues, and fuel pump was found to be worn out as well.

Octanee · Dec 29, 2017

HECKS said:
Hopefully it all turns out for ya !
I turbo'd at 3000km and rode/fixed/repaired to 6600km. But, I was having electrical issues and tested the stator and was well above its limit. Running the extra oil pump, water pump, AFR gauge, XIC, & injectors it was struggling. Just chasing running issues, and fuel pump was found to be worn out as well.

That's a damn shame, I've had nothing but troubles with, sleds, and I had hoped this would be more reliable option haha, you see so many people riding g out there trouble free with turbo setups of all kinds, then there's us who just can't get a break!

Scott · Dec 29, 2017

I've read the whole thread.

Couple things to consider....
Change your fuel filter. Should be done every 500 miles.
Make sure your pipe isn't rubbing on anything. That vibration can cause a harmonic that is picked up be the DET sensor. You'll need to pull the pipe and look for rub marks on the pipe or bulkhead. If you have rubs, check to make sure the springs are good and pipe is secure. Also, check your motor mounts to make sure they aren't the cause of the pipe rub.

Make sure all injectors and fuel lines are seated properly. Make sure the O rings are all perfect and didn't get rolled or pinched during install.

Check all of this. If these don't check out, then you can eliminate those little gremlins.

Octanee · Dec 29, 2017

Scott said:
I've read the whole thread.

Couple things to consider....
Change your fuel filter. Should be done every 500 miles.
Make sure your pipe isn't rubbing on anything. That vibration can cause a harmonic that is picked up be the Det sensor. You'll need to pull the pipe and look for rub marks on the pipe or bullhead. If you have rubs, check to make sure the springs are good and pipe is secure. Also, check your motor mounts to make sure they aren't the cause of the pipe rub.

Make sure all injectors and fuel lines are seated properly. Make sure the Other rings are all perfect and didn't get rolled or pinched during install.

Check all of this. If these don't check out, then you can eliminate those little gremlins.

Very good info! One thing that comes to mind reading over that is my exhaust pipe does touch the front bumper bracket, the sled has a "cr racing" front bumper and for some reason its tight to the pipe that the tin is a bit pushed in. Would it really be that sensitive to pick up that noise? But I suppose you never know.... I'll see if I can grind the metal away on the bumper as well. Fuel filter has probably 300 miles on it now.

Thanks!

Scott · Dec 29, 2017

Octanee said:
Very good info! One thing that comes to mind reading over that is my exhaust pipe does touch the front bumper bracket, the sled has a "cr racing" front bumper and for some reason its tight to the pipe that the tin is a bit pushed in. Would it really be that sensitive to pick up that noise? But I suppose you never know.... I'll see if I can grind the metal away on the bumper as well. Fuel filter has probably 300 miles on it now.

Thanks!

YES, THAT CAN CAUSE THE SENSOR TO TRIP.
This is great trouble-shooting discussion.
Please post updates!!!

Octanee · Dec 30, 2017

Scott said:
YES, THAT CAN CAUSE THE SENSOR TO TRIP.
This is great trouble-shooting discussion.
Please post updates!!!

I haven't gotten around to the exhaust rubbing yet but I plan to this upcoming week, I have however tried the other stuff that's been mentioned. today's ride I ran approx 60% av with 40% 94 octane. the sled behaved the same as on ~30%, throwing the det code going in or more so off boost. It was deep powder, I left it running rich but lean enough it didn't have a total bog in the bottom end. I had one time I went to grab some throttle right after a climb and the sled gave a literal puff sound Like a back fire sputter and then if immediately threw the det code, when that happened I was running around 10:1 on the a/f, real rich. The other time I had snow all over the snorkel and may have been from lack of air, sled deff fell on its face from lack of air and then threw the det code, and other usual times was when I was off the throttle after wide open, I did some climbs, a/f was steady around 11:1, never seen any lean outs and climbed well.

I took the timing key off, played around, threw the det code under same situation, did not notice much difference in sled otherwise.

On the way out I noticed my a/f gauge wanting to stay at - - - as if it's leaner than the 17:1 or so that is its max reading, give it throttle on and off it did bounce back and around though, slow taper into hearing the turbo wind up and maybe boosting? Stayed there on the - - - then it would peg down real rich. I wonder if my 02 sensor is saying it's had enough? Sled ran fine down the trail otherwise. However idle it did read around 13:1 or so, so not sure what to make of that.

One thing I forgot I noticed last ride I forgot about. Is some sorta metallic like tapping/ticking noise? It only makes it on light throttle, as soon as you let off its gone, and when you give it more throttle you don't really hear it since the turbo wants to start to light. I have looked under my hood and can't see anything, I was thinking maybe it's my clutches? Or primary? Hmm...

Infamous det code on decel?

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