850 175 washing out on steep sidehills

TreeThrasher · Mar 9, 2018

Sorry boys. I'm plenty competent and the out of the box setup on my 175 dropped the rear end and fell off the hill before my properly prepared t3 or my axys.

Now the 175 is rediculous...the thing is just flat gnarly what it will do and keep going in the hills. But stock, not so much. Neither the clutch setup nor chassis setup would allow the sled to be pushed to its potential

Chadly · Mar 10, 2018

It took me 15 rides on the 850 chassis before I thought it could do what the T3 can do. It is a totally different riding style. I think you just gave up too soon and were pouting like a Polaris owner :face-icon-small-blu

ak · Mar 10, 2018

TreeThrasher said:
Sorry boys. I'm plenty competent and the out of the box setup on my 175 dropped the rear end and fell off the hill before my properly prepared t3 or my axys.

Now the 175 is rediculous...the thing is just flat gnarly what it will do and keep going in the hills. But stock, not so much. Neither the clutch setup nor chassis setup would allow the sled to be pushed to its potential

I would agree with this on a steep harder surface the *** end will fall right out. Sucking up the limiter 1 hole and t motion delete have really helped. This is on the 175 sled. It doesn’t help that we have not had ideal riding conditions this year till just yesterday. So ice might have been a factor in causing my problems.

XPWY · Mar 11, 2018

Chadly said:
It took me 15 rides on the 850 chassis before I thought it could do what the T3 can do. It is a totally different riding style. I think you just gave up too soon and were pouting like a Polaris owner :face-icon-small-blu

This is spot on. I was in the same boat, trying to ride the G4 like an XM, which did not work out too well. Once I finally figured out the correct positioning and inputs required for this chassis it was incredible, almost like I was connected to the sled. I found that every inch of adjustment with anything from foot placement to bar height and angle had a major impact on how this chassis handles. Now that I have it all dialed in, I could not be happier with this sled.

snosumitcsr · Mar 11, 2018

Part of the washout might be contributed to the incredible strong throttle response and thick bottom end acceleration of this motor. It comes on so hard the track spins and hooks up too hard if you don’t feather the flipper. :juggle:

resent:

rulonjj · Mar 11, 2018

On my 165(not a 175,I know) I found it washed out to much with my foot too far forward. I installed a 4” riser and started setting my foot way further back on the boards and boom, it would cut a serious sidehill with very little effort and problem.

If you’ve ever ridden an axys, it likes to be ridden very hard with the foot way back. That’s how the g4 is.

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

rulonjj said:
On my 165(not a 175,I know) I found it washed out to much with my foot too far forward. I installed a 4” riser and started setting my foot way further back on the boards and boom, it would cut a serious sidehill with very little effort and problem.

If you’ve ever ridden an axys, it likes to be ridden very hard with the foot way back. That’s how the g4 is.

Agree to disagree - especially with respect to the Axys. Further back you ride it, the more it wants to wash out.

I know Chadly has found success riding the G4 in the middle. I really didn't find it to hold a better sidehill in this position, but my suspension setup is far more like an Axys than a stock Doo.

Go talk to any of the top dogs in Polaris world. If you are trying to mitigate wash out, you move forward on the boards...

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

ak said:
I would agree with this on a steep harder surface the *** end will fall right out. Sucking up the limiter 1 hole and t motion delete have really helped. This is on the 175 sled. It doesn’t help that we have not had ideal riding conditions this year till just yesterday. So ice might have been a factor in causing my problems.

You realize sucking the limiter up actually hinders the sled's ability to hold a sidehill right?

You want the flattest edge you can get. Then you want to have a super soft FTS to keep from trenching (pop up on the snow) and a really firm RTS to keep from wheelie-ing everywhere.

ak · Mar 12, 2018

JJ_0909 said:
You realize sucking the limiter up actually hinders the sled's ability to hold a sidehill right?

You want the flattest edge you can get. Then you want to have a super soft FTS to keep from trenching (pop up on the snow) and a really firm RTS to keep from wheelie-ing everywhere.

I’m pretty sure the 175 strap length comes pre set longer than the 154/165 does from the factory.

Matte Murder · Mar 12, 2018

So how steep a sidehill are we all talking about lol? When it’s REALLY STEEP, my skis aren’t even in the snow. The nose is high, I'm wrong foot forward, back a little farther on the boards and the flipper is to the bar. I’m also peddling with the up hill leg pushing down and back to keep the sled moving. To keep the nose from turning up hill I’m actually pushing the nose away from the hill and pushing the uphill handle bar forward and pulling the downhill bar back. I see the Polaris
Guys doing essentially the same thing. The Polaris seems to hold a flatter line longer as it gets steeper.

rulonjj · Mar 12, 2018

JJ_0909 said:
Agree to disagree - especially with respect to the Axys. Further back you ride it, the more it wants to wash out.

I know Chadly has found success riding the G4 in the middle. I really didn't find it to hold a better sidehill in this position, but my suspension setup is far more like an Axys than a stock Doo.

Go talk to any of the top dogs in Polaris world. If you are trying to mitigate wash out, you move forward on the boards...

Funny you mention the top dogs of Polaris. Chris is actually the one that said stepping back a little helps the axys sidehill better. His words, not mine. Look at every picture of Chris in a sidehill. His foot is far back, and his bars are low. That makes him lean forward over the bars, giving him the ability to push the front down, eliminating wash out. It also makes it so he can pull on the bars, and turn easier.

Don’t believe me? Ask him yourself. Watch his videos. He rides pretty far back. That’s how I ride my 850 and it makes a huge difference. Less washout, more control and easier sidehilling.

rulonjj · Mar 12, 2018

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SL-jdNN-IeE

:27. Look how far back he is.

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

rulonjj said:
Funny you mention the top dogs of Polaris. Chris is actually the one that said stepping back a little helps the axys sidehill better. His words, not mine. Look at every picture of Chris in a sidehill. His foot is far back, and his bars are low. That makes him lean forward over the bars, giving him the ability to push the front down, eliminating wash out. It also makes it so he can pull on the bars, and turn easier.

Don’t believe me? Ask him yourself. Watch his videos. He rides pretty far back. That’s how I ride my 850 and it makes a huge difference. Less washout, more control and easier sidehilling.

I think we are confusing "sidehill better" with "prevent washout".

I feel every modern mountain sled sidehills very "balanced" by being ridden in the middle. This is where the rider exhibits the least amount of **effort**. Bars aren't in your stomach, arms have a relaxed bend to them, its effortless to ride here.

...but if you start to wash out (and lose your edge) moving forward is the only way to keep the sled level and on edge. Even watch that video and note how the track starts to push the sled up the hill.

That sidehill isn't super technical, and Chris is carrying good speed. If he were to slow things down and things were to get steeper, he'd have get forward on the boards to keep things level (or do some Chris magic - let off the throttle, lot of brake, push down the hill etc). I also think we forget how incredible Chris is at riding and how playful he is. EG: if you are going to do hop overs and the like, you absolutely have to be back on the boards.

Watch any good rider do an elevator. Where are they on the boards? Why do you think this is?

rulonjj · Mar 12, 2018

An elevator has nothing to do with sidehilling. In fact, an elevator is a washout of the whole sled. And how do we get into an elevator? You said it, step way up on the boards.

Washing out comes from to much weight on the front. Why do you think skidoo struggles so bad with it? Maybe, just maybe, they are rider forward. Haha.

Back to the op. From my experience, lockout the tmotion gimmick, set your rear springs on 4 or 5. Set the front track shock fairly soft, do not suck up the limited strap(that does the same thing as riding way forward on the boards), set the ski skocks at 1/2 and Just try riding with your foot further back. It may surprise you what it will do.

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

rulonjj said:
An elevator has nothing to do with sidehilling. In fact, an elevator is a washout of the whole sled. And how do we get into an elevator? You said it, step way up on the boards.

Washing out comes from to much weight on the front. Why do you think skidoo struggles so bad with it? Maybe, just maybe, they are rider forward. Haha.

Back to the op. From my experience, lockout the tmotion gimmick, set your rear springs on 4 or 5. Set the front track shock fairly soft, do not suck up the limited strap(that does the same thing as riding way forward on the boards), set the ski skocks at 1/2 and Just try riding with your foot further back. It may surprise you what it will do.

RE: Elevator. It is comparable. You are on edge controllably going down the hill. Maybe paneling out if its super steep. Try doing that move with your weight back and see where your nose goes.

RE: Foot position while side hilling - Listen to McClure talk about it... Different Chassis but the fundamentals still apply...

https://youtu.be/BLubvWBAOks?t=66

Either way, we do agree with setup. Only difference is why. Sucking your limiter up hurts your sidehilling due to the angle the track is attacking the hill at with the limiter sucked up (its pointed up the hill slightly - hence why a turned up rail can help keep it from washing out if you like to ride with your limiter sucked up to some extent)

Adam12 · Mar 12, 2018

Great discussion JJ_0909 and rulonjj!

This suspension newb loves stuff like this.

rulonjj · Mar 12, 2018

JJ_0909 said:
RE: Elevator. It is comparable. You are on edge controllably going down the hill. Maybe paneling out if its super steep. Try doing that move with your weight back and see where your nose goes.

RE: Foot position while side hilling - Listen to McClure talk about it... Different Chassis but the fundamentals still apply...

https://youtu.be/BLubvWBAOks?t=66

Either way, we do agree with setup. Only difference is why. Sucking your limiter up hurts your sidehilling due to the angle the track is attacking the hill at with the limiter sucked up (its pointed up the hill slightly - hence why a turned up rail can help keep it from washing out if you like to ride with your limiter sucked up to some extent)

So it sounds like we each have our preference on the attitude of our sled. I like mine set set with the nose kinda high(but not wheelie-ing). You like the nose down a little or maybe sitting flatter. My style requires a little more speed but in my opinion, makes it easier to manipulate the sled. Good talk tho. I Always enjoy a good discussion!

JJ_0909 · Mar 12, 2018

rulonjj said:
So it sounds like we each have our preference on the attitude of our sled. I like mine set set with the nose kinda high(but not wheelie-ing). You like the nose down a little or maybe sitting flatter. My style requires a little more speed but in my opinion, makes it easier to manipulate the sled. Good talk tho. I Always enjoy a good discussion!

100% agree with this assessment. And as my hands/arms can attest to (today) - you are right. Its a lot harder on the body, more energy needed to manipulate the sled with how I'm doing it. Upside is I do feel I can hold something a hair steeper at slower speed.

Shortline · Mar 12, 2018

Adam12 said:
Great discussion JJ_0909 and rulonjj!

This suspension newb loves stuff like this.

+1 here

You guys make we wish I was riding about 5 days a week to go out and try all these setup and technique tips!

Mountain_Man · Mar 12, 2018

I'm no expert but I do know there is more than one factor in good side-hilling. In my opinion it's combination of things, snow depth and consistency, actual steepness (what's called steep to one may not be to another), machine, rider weight, position on the boards, reaction times, throttle control, counter-steering, and many more. If you change one thing you usually have to compensate with something else. That's why one way works well for some and another way works better for others, they figured out the combination that works for them. If a 150 pound rider and a 300 pound rider stand in the same place on the boards the weight distribution and center of gravity will not be the same. It's good to experiment with an open mind and see what works best, and realize others may need a little different approach to make it all work.

850 175 washing out on steep sidehills

Forum Expert

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

ACCOUNT CLOSED

ACCOUNT CLOSED

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

ACCOUNT CLOSED

Well-known member

ACCOUNT CLOSED

Well-known member

Well-known member

ACCOUNT CLOSED

Well-known member

Similar threads