850 175 washing out on steep sidehills

TreeThrasher · Dec 10, 2017

So I got a chance to get a good ride in on my new 175. We rode some full tilt technical ground. Steep steep trees where there is very little room for error or to cover deficiency in the sled.

The 850 175 proved to be an animal in this terrain! With the one exception of its washout tendency. It is worse than my 174 t3 I'm coming from at just losing the reared down the hill. I can be in perfect control, going fast or slow and at a certain point of steepness the rear end start creeping lower and lower until it spins you straight uphill and its over. We had a 165 850 with us that has Toms setup under it. I have never seen a shorter version of the same chassis washout less until now.

Whats up with the 175 setup making it wash? Did Doo sit the skid in the chassis slightly different to make it handle easier and its having the negative effect of washout in the real steep stuff?

Up until basically the steepest stuff you will typically ever ride, the 175 is phenomenal in all ways.

Any insight?

Summit74 · Dec 11, 2017

No answer for you on the 175, but the 165, if it had the newer Tom’s kit w/ billet front rocker it actually pivots in front rocker arm and the rear arm. When I asked Tom about locking out my T-motion, he suggested I try the new front rocker arm first. He basically said it’s like 2 negatives (pivoting motion of both) making a positive outcome. So far I really like it, excited to get it in more technical terrain and compare to buddy w/ stock 165.

Chadly · Dec 11, 2017

You are riding too far forward on the sled...

Rukus · Dec 11, 2017

Chadly said:
You are riding too far forward on the sled...

Riding too far forward.....? When the sled keeper washout....?
If you place your foot inn the back of the runningboard, it will turn up......
If you plate the foot inn the front of the runningboard, it will preventive the sled of turning up hill and washout.....

Chadly · Dec 11, 2017

Not on the 850 chassis... I have posted this before. The days of burying your foot in the foot well to sidehill are over. It took me 3 to 4 rides to figure out this sled because I had the same problem. The 850 sweet spot is back where the design of the boards change. If you ride with your foot all the way forward the sleds want to turn up the hill. Trust me. I'm probably one of the best riders on this forum. And if you don't believe me just ask me and I will tell you. :eyebrows:

SidewaysInto3rd · Dec 11, 2017

yeah .. foot position + throttle and brake control

move your foot back a bit then tap the brakes to keep the sled from climbing. its a fine balance point but once you find it, she goes smooth!

JJ_0909 · Dec 11, 2017

Chadly said:
Not on the 850 chassis... I have posted this before. The days of burying your foot in the foot well to sidehill are over. It took me 3 to 4 rides to figure out this sled because I had the same problem. The 850 sweet spot is back where the design of the boards change. If you ride with your foot all the way forward the sleds want to turn up the hill. Trust me. I'm probably one of the best riders on this forum. And if you don't believe me just ask me and I will tell you. :eyebrows:

Coming from an Axys this makes zero sense. Just like tapping the brake to get the sled to transfer forward (and hold its line) riding further forward should mitigate washout as you are weighting the anchor (ski) more and the track less. But maybe its one of those things whereby weight the track more keeps it in its line? Completely backwards from what I'm used to!

Still too thin to really get after it in steeper more technical terrain here but yeah, surprised you'd say further back....

Chadly · Dec 11, 2017

JJ_0909 said:
Coming from an Axys this makes zero sense. Just like tapping the brake to get the sled to transfer forward (and hold its line) riding further forward should prohibit washout.

Still too thin to really get after it in steeper more technical terrain here but yeah, surprised you'd say further back....

It doesn't make sense at all. That's why it took me a few rides to figure it out. But with this sled you ride farther back than any other sled I have ridden. That is why most people say an Axys is easier to side Hill....

goridedoo · Dec 11, 2017

Chadly said:
You are riding too far forward on the sled...

Not saying you are wrong... but pretty sure you ARE wrong.

NoSoup4U · Dec 11, 2017

Chadly said:
... Trust me. I'm probably one of the best riders on this forum. And if you don't believe me just ask me and I will tell you. :eyebrows:

Your last name Trump by any chance?

Ace Freely · Dec 11, 2017

Chad is a pretty decent rider. I've ridden with him before. Try what he is saying. IF that doesn't work like you hope, get the T motion delete washer.

Ace

Wheel House Motorsports · Dec 11, 2017

I can also attest, as an axys rider, when on a G4, you want your weight about centered in the running board. If you put the weight way forward up towards the footwell that track just constantly spins out.

Also you are never going to get it to hold that good of an edge. mega wide running boards, tippy skid and flexy track are not setting you up for success in technical terrain. The way the skid/track combo winds up on a sidehill the track is basically cutting a curved trench wanting to send the sled uphill. Best case is you get your weight back, keep the skis up and you can steer with your hips more.

Chadly · Dec 11, 2017

goridedoo said:
Not saying you are wrong... but pretty sure you ARE wrong.

I'm sure your statements carry a lot of weight on this forum being that you have a cat in a Santa suit as your avatar. :face-icon-small-con I'm not saying you are an awesome trail rider but I'm pretty sure you ARE an awesome trail rider.

DRIVEBYE · Dec 11, 2017

Chadly said:
I'm sure your statements carry a lot of weight on this forum being that you have a cat in a Santa suit as your avatar. :face-icon-small-con I'm not saying you are an awesome trail rider but I'm pretty sure you ARE an awesome trail rider.

Bang

JJ_0909 · Dec 11, 2017

Wheel House Motorsports said:
I can also attest, as an axys rider, when on a G4, you want your weight about centered in the running board. If you put the weight way forward up towards the footwell that track just constantly spins out.

Also you are never going to get it to hold that good of an edge. mega wide running boards, tippy skid and flexy track are not setting you up for success in technical terrain. The way the skid/track combo winds up on a sidehill the track is basically cutting a curved trench wanting to send the sled uphill. Best case is you get your weight back, keep the skis up and you can steer with your hips more.

I hear you, locking out T-Motion has go to help

Wheel House Motorsports · Dec 11, 2017

JJ_0909 said:
I hear you, locking out T-Motion has go to help

Friday did some testing, T-motion delete bushings, new skis, spindles etc in various stages tested done on the hill swapping parts. It all makes it "better" but your still trying to cut a hard edge with a floppy track, wide boards, bad steering design. Putting gripper skis on it was by FAR the best mod as far as bang for your buck. Greatly reduced the desire of the sled to dart franticly on a sidehill. The fact that people can ride the G4 in stock trim and actually enjoy it boggles my mind. I would honestly rather try and tree ride a sidewinder then a stock G4.

Also, the skid still is designed to flex so much even with the bushings there is a fair amount of twist and flex to it, altho quite a bit less that is for sure.

The Doo chassis design has never been designed to be a good tree sled. They are designed to be smooth and easy to rock from side to side and that is about it. They do work well when the snow is deep and forgiving but the harder the snow gets the more the axys and new kitties absolutely walk away from them for ease of use.

Teth-Air · Dec 11, 2017

Wheel House Motorsports said:
Friday did some testing, T-motion delete bushings, new skis, spindles etc in various stages tested done on the hill swapping parts. It all makes it "better" but your still trying to cut a hard edge with a floppy track, wide boards, bad steering design. Putting gripper skis on it was by FAR the best mod as far as bang for your buck. Greatly reduced the desire of the sled to dart franticly on a sidehill. The fact that people can ride the G4 in stock trim and actually enjoy it boggles my mind. I would honestly rather try and tree ride a sidewinder then a stock G4.

Also, the skid still is designed to flex so much even with the bushings there is a fair amount of twist and flex to it, altho quite a bit less that is for sure.

The Doo chassis design has never been designed to be a good tree sled. They are designed to be smooth and easy to rock from side to side and that is about it. They do work well when the snow is deep and forgiving but the harder the snow gets the more the axys and new kitties absolutely walk away from them for ease of use.

Very surprised you say this as the Doo is the easiest to ride on concrete snow, well at least on medium slopes as the AXYS requires to be ridden on one ski and when the snow is set up it takes more energy than just steering a Doo around. Maybe you are talking steep hard slopes? Yes in that case I would not want to be on anything but my AXYS. The new Cat feels similar to a slightly heavier AXYS too.

DRIVEBYE · Dec 11, 2017

Teth-Air said:
[/B]

Very surprised you say this as the Doo is the easiest to ride on concrete snow, well at least on medium slopes as the AXYS requires to be ridden on one ski and when the snow is set up it takes more energy than just steering a Doo around. Maybe you are talking steep hard slopes? Yes in that case I would not want to be on anything but my AXYS. The new Cat feels similar to a slightly heavier AXYS too.

I would rather be on my couch if the snow is hard.

JJ_0909 · Dec 11, 2017

Wheel House Motorsports said:
Friday did some testing, T-motion delete bushings, new skis, spindles etc in various stages tested done on the hill swapping parts. It all makes it "better" but your still trying to cut a hard edge with a floppy track, wide boards, bad steering design. Putting gripper skis on it was by FAR the best mod as far as bang for your buck. Greatly reduced the desire of the sled to dart franticly on a sidehill. The fact that people can ride the G4 in stock trim and actually enjoy it boggles my mind. I would honestly rather try and tree ride a sidewinder then a stock G4.

Also, the skid still is designed to flex so much even with the bushings there is a fair amount of twist and flex to it, altho quite a bit less that is for sure.

The Doo chassis design has never been designed to be a good tree sled. They are designed to be smooth and easy to rock from side to side and that is about it. They do work well when the snow is deep and forgiving but the harder the snow gets the more the axys and new kitties absolutely walk away from them for ease of use.

Super interesting.

I'm still dead stock. I will post a vid of some more "technical" riding next monday...hoping to show you can ride a G4 100% stock in some pretty rowdy stuff. Initial impressions were good from me... but I have a completely different background than just about anyone on this forum.

DRIVEBYE · Dec 11, 2017

JJ_0909 said:
Super interesting.

I'm still dead stock. I will post a vid of some more "technical" riding next monday...hoping to show you can ride a G4 100% stock in some pretty rowdy stuff. Initial impressions were good from me... but I have a completely different background than just about anyone on this forum.

I would enjoy seeing your video but I don't need to prove what the sled is capable of. Everything is a give and take if you ask me. I don't do any hardcore side hilling my self. When I do I am almost always doing to set up a turn back up the mountain in 10 to 20 feet sections. Maybe I ride like a bitch, but I also watch a guy 6'5 260 ride a Polaris 155 turbo so he can jump it easier. When he side hills the sled is constantly washing out says he likes it that way.

I have people say why do you ride a Doo they aren't nimble, same guy that says that says it is to "tippy" after trying it, well to me that is nimble lol. It is never ending over analysis.

Nothing wrong with some changes to make it fit your style or comfort but saying stuff like a stock G4 is not rideable is just BS.

850 175 washing out on steep sidehills

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